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PET 2001 Booting Issues

As you've ruled out ROM, RAM (system & video), CPU and the character generator the fault is most likely to lie with one of the other chips involved in generating the display as suggested by Dave (daver2). He'll have you probing around the multiplexers (UD2, UD3 & UD4) with the oscilloscope in double quick time. You'll probably need the soldering iron at some point as well.

Alan
 
These PETs are cool old rigs for sure. Can't wait to get mine working to start using it for my Computer Science Class I will be teaching in September.
There's probably a bad chip somewhere in the video refresh circuit as daver2 indicated. We will find it. The fact you get a good raster scan says the most difficult circuitry is working. Just go slow and sure during troubleshooting. With the RAM/ROM replacement board and other gadgets you have, we should be able to get this PET on the air.

The students will love the PET computer with the 'hood' open.
 
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As you've ruled out ROM, RAM (system & video), CPU and the character generator the fault is most likely to lie with one of the other chips involved in generating the display as suggested by Dave (daver2). He'll have you probing around the multiplexers (UD2, UD3 & UD4) with the oscilloscope in double quick time. You'll probably need the soldering iron at some point as well.

Alan
Time to break out the ancient oscilloscope.
 
There's probably a bad chip somewhere in the video refresh circuit as daver2 indicated. We will find it. The fact you get a good raster scan says the most difficult circuitry is working. Just go slow and sure during troubleshooting. With the RAM/ROM replacement board and other gadgets you have, we should be able to get this PET on the air.

The students will love the PET computer with the 'hood' open.
Any suggestions on where to start? UD2,UD3 and UD4 I can't seem to locate on the schematics, as for the expansion boards I have them all installed now (replacement Video Rom, Video Ram and the Tyemouth - set to replace everything system Rom and Ram) I have also removed all original ROM chips as well as all original system ram except for the one in J 1-2 and I 1-2 was that a good course of action?
 
UD2,UD3 and UD4 I can't seem to locate on the schematics .....

I'm looking at the three page 320008 board schematic downloaded from zimmers.net and the three chips are on the third page, in the middle and just below UA1.

Hey All, So I am thinking I should invest in a good cheap Oscilloscope anyone have any thoughts on what I should buy?

Please don't waste your money on a cheap hand held digital scope with limited bandwidth. You need something with >20MHz bandwidth for it to be really useful. Anyway what's wrong with your old scope? It'll be analogue no doubt but that can be an advantage rather than a problem. What make and model is it?

Alan
 
I have also removed all original ROM chips as well as all original system ram except for the one in J 1-2 and I 1-2 was that a good course of action?

You don't really need any of the system RAM chips as the Tynemouth board will use its own RAM. Doesn't matter either way as long as the video RAM chips are in place and are not faulty.

Any suggestions on where to start?

Although I know that the multiplexers are prime suspects I'm no expert when it comes to fault finding the video circuitry so will have to leave it for others to advise.

Alan
 
Nope, a waste of time I am afraid!

Dave
Yes I agree with that remark.

The scope that would be most use fault finding is an Analog scope of at least 20MHz bandwidth. (You don't require math functions, USB interconnectivity---you want to see what is there and not have to worry about digital scope issues such as aliasing and sample rates).

One of the better compact reliable choices is the vintage Hitachi V-509 (it also has a delay timebase and is 50MHz rated) but these are harder to get (in good order) compared to the V-209, the 20MHz version. I would recommend then the V-209, like this:


Also get the manual for it:


Hitachi kindly put the schematic in the manual too. Though these oscilloscopes practically never require any repairs. Their features are being super compact, optional 12V operation, super bright trace with a 10kV CRT final anode voltage. A beautiful scope and its hard to imagine that you could get something so marvelous and so well made for the price they sell for nowadays. These make most USB scopes look like piles of junk.

Never buy a physically beaten up or cosmetically damaged looking vintage analog scope, likely it will have multiple issues. In that comparison it would be better to buy a wide bandwidth, at least 50 to 100MHz new digital scope, or you will spend a lot of time restoring and repairing the analog one.

Generic x 1 and x10 probes are available cheap on ebay.
 
out of curiosity: is the 6503 compatible with PET? You told you have an Apple ][... is there a 6502 inside? I would test it on the PET, just in case. Surely won't change anything... but....
 
I'm looking at the three page 320008 board schematic downloaded from zimmers.net and the three chips are on the third page, in the middle and just below UA1.



Please don't waste your money on a cheap hand held digital scope with limited bandwidth. You need something with >20MHz bandwidth for it to be really useful. Anyway what's wrong with your old scope? It'll be analogue no doubt but that can be an advantage rather than a problem. What make and model is it?

Alan
Sadly it seems as though it was thrown out in the last purge of the schools science department.... so I will need to replace it with something else.
 
out of curiosity: is the 6503 compatible with PET? You told you have an Apple ][... is there a 6502 inside? I would test it on the PET, just in case. Surely won't change anything... but....
As far as I am aware they are the same chip just a 6503 is a special part number for Apple, you know how Apple likes to be special ha ha ha, but the 6502 out of the pet worked fine in the mac.
 
You don't really need any of the system RAM chips as the Tynemouth board will use its own RAM. Doesn't matter either way as long as the video RAM chips are in place and are not faulty.



Although I know that the multiplexers are prime suspects I'm no expert when it comes to fault finding the video circuitry so will have to leave it for others to advise.

Alan
Thanks Alan!
 
Yes I agree with that remark.

The scope that would be most use fault finding is an Analog scope of at least 20MHz bandwidth. (You don't require math functions, USB interconnectivity---you want to see what is there and not have to worry about digital scope issues such as aliasing and sample rates).

One of the better compact reliable choices is the vintage Hitachi V-509 (it also has a delay timebase and is 50MHz rated) but these are harder to get (in good order) compared to the V-209, the 20MHz version. I would recommend then the V-209, like this:


Also get the manual for it:


Hitachi kindly put the schematic in the manual too. Though these oscilloscopes practically never require any repairs. Their features are being super compact, optional 12V operation, super bright trace with a 10kV CRT final anode voltage. A beautiful scope and its hard to imagine that you could get something so marvelous and so well made for the price they sell for nowadays. These make most USB scopes look like piles of junk.

Never buy a physically beaten up or cosmetically damaged looking vintage analog scope, likely it will have multiple issues. In that comparison it would be better to buy a wide bandwidth, at least 50 to 100MHz new digital scope, or you will spend a lot of time restoring and repairing the analog one.

Generic x 1 and x10 probes are available cheap on ebay.
What are you thoughts on the https://www.amazon.ca/Hantek-Digita...72&sprefix=osc,aps,85&sr=8-15#customerReviews Hantek? it is 20mhz, Adrian Black did a review on them recently and said they where OK for most use, I am also thinking I can use this as part of my Computer Science course next year and the ability to display it on a computer screen to cast to a tv is handy, thoughts?
 
What do you mean? It's bandwidth is 200 KHz. It's as good as my old Dumont of 1950! :)
One of my favorite analog scopes is the Tek 2465B. 400MHz rated. But it can do something quite amazing that no 400MHz rated digital scope can do.

I have a sine wave generator that goes up to 1GHz. The Tek 2465b can still just sync lock and visualize a 900MHz wave (even though the amplitude calibration is meaningless). But it is a testament to the performance of all the analog circuitry in it, quite extraordinary. But for many years I was perfectly happy with the 50MHz Hitachi V-509.
 
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