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Future Domain TMC-840 scsi help

C

CompositeGamer

Experienced Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
53
I have a tandy 1000 TX that i have been upgrading.
I ordered a Future Domain TMC-840 scsi card and may need drivers for it.

I fired up the tandy TX today and the hardcard seems to be dead and it was also my boot drive. I knew it was going because i had to hit it some time ago to get it going.

I did back up all the data on to the burnelli and a cdrom some time ago and made some boot disks with the burnelli drivers incase this happened. I only put a couple of new programs on the hardcard since then. These new programs are backed up on another computer luckly.i also have many dos disks,win3.0,Deskmate,Norton commander and programs in my possesion.

Luckly i just got a great deal on ebay and won the 8-bit Future Domain TMC-840 SCSI for $10.00. Havn't got it yet though.i dont think it will come with any dos drivers for it as its not in the description. I also have some 40-80mb,500mb and a 2gb drives internal/external scsi drives around with some with cables and terminators.

I did download some drivers with no documents from adaptec website and not sure if they will work. Adaptecs website only a has small description and says its for future domain isa cards. The name of the file is DCAM18xx.exe and DCAM950.EXE and when executed its a command line with options program. In the text it says

FUTURE/CAM FOR DOS FOR (18XX OR 36XX SERIES IC VERSION 4.0)

Does anybody have any experience with these cards,know if the software i have will work or perhaps have the dos drivers?

I will be running msdos 3.3 and would like to hook up a internal bootable harddrive and an external cd rom drive.

I would like to use the 2 gb drive that i have so it will hold all my games and + some.

Will i have 500mb limitation due to the card bios or my version of dos?
Will i have to partition the drive with 32mb partitions?

I dont think theres that many drive letters in the alphabet if i perhaps can use all 2gb.

Will i run out of drive letters?

Do scsi cards need to have jumpers set for the tandy 1000 specific irq?
 
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I only have experience with the 850MER series of cards on a PC, but I think that you should be fine.

If your card has a BIOS on it, you shouldn't need any drivers to make a single hard drive bootable. You will need drivers for CD-ROM support, but I wouldn't hook that up until you get a single, internal, hard drive working on it first, just to save yourself a debugging headache in case you've got an ID conflict or anything else happening.

If your card does not have a BIOS, but has an eprom socket (that's the way my 850MER arrived) click this
http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?t=9546
and you'll get a writeup of what I had to do to get a BIOS installed on the card.

CompositeGamer said:
i will be running msdos 3.3 and would like to hook up a internal bootable harddrive and an external cd rom drive.
will i have 500mb limitation due to the card bios or my version of dos?
will i have to partition the drive with 32mb partitions? i dont think theres that many drive letters in the alphabet if i perhaps can use all 2gb.will i run out of drive letters?
do scsi cards need to have jumpers set for the tandy 1000 specific irq?
Click to expand...

with dos 3.x, you're stuck with 32mb partitions. 4.01 goes higher than that. I believe I did two, 1gig partitions on my 2gig drive and DOS 4.01. I've heard better things with freedos or DR-DOS.

My 850MER BIOS easily saw the 2gig drive I put in. I cannot say what yours will do.

-jeff!
 
I have tried higher dos versions but tandys use too much of the 640k. Most of my programs/games requier more than it will give with dos above 3.3. Unless i get some extra ram or something i will probably stick with dos 3.3

i can still live with the 32mb limit as most of the programs dont take much space. I can remember that i may have a program on an old floppy that breaks the 32mb barrier somewhere.im sure there must be programs out there that do so elswhere too.

do drive overlay programs break this barrier with scsi drives and support dos 3.3?
 
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Well i got the scsi card and im having a pretty tough time getting it to work. No matter what configeration i use it doesn't detect any harddrive and fdisk doesn't detect anything either. When the computer boots the rom displays scsi rom stuff and says "no drives detected".

I plugged the internal connector to a 500mb internal drive that has terminating resisters on it and an id select switch. My 2gb drive dosn't have any jumper print outs and makes funny noises when connected so i think my luck will be with the 500mb for now. I tried the 500mb without the resisters on the drive and still no go. I read somewhere those restisers need to be on the drive to terminate the chain, right? I also tried different id # settings and still no go.

Theres also terminating resisters next to the internal connector on the card that i took off just to see what would happen and still no go. Do these resisters need to be on for the card to work? I think i read somewhere that the controller needs to be terminated too along with the drive chain. Do these resisters effect the internal connector in some way or does it terminate the card itself?

Im not sure if i have the right drivers for it,but im hearing that future domain software is compatable with most or all FD scsi cards.

I did load a device driver (Dcam950.sys) for future domain cards that loaded and found the controller and scanned the ID chain but doesn't show any drives. Fdisk doesn't find any drives either after this driver. This driver has optons that can be added like rom addresses and irqs but i dont know what my cards settings are supposed to be. I ended up just loading the driver with no options. When external drives are connected through the external port this driver doesn't find any controllers and the driver also doesn't load. Is this port correct as it looks just like a parrallel port or apple scsi port,although it doesn't say apple port on the card like some cards do. Do i use a standard apple scsi connector on this port? An apple cable is what im using now.

I also loaded a scsi fixed disk device driver (FDBIOS.sys) succesfully and needed dos 4 or above. I think this driver may be for cards without a bios but im not sure. When i use fdisk after this driver it finds hard disks but its not right. I end up with about 7-2gb drives that aren't really there. It also it will not perform any format either as the proceding will freeze the computer.

This card does have jumpers but i dont have any docs. I tried changing many of the jumpers around with no results. I also changed jumpers on my motherboard that disable onbourd irqs and still nothing. Does anybody have the jumper seetings for these cards?

Im going to do some scsi info searches and try to find more help on scsi card setup help along with trying to find the driver and such.

My room is a big mess now with drives lingering everywhere and the frusteration high. Please if anybody can help, itwill wonderfull.
 
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today im going to try the drives on my other pc with working scsi.i will try a different cable too as the one i have been using is for many drives and very long.if a drive ends up working on my working scsi computer then i can determin that my software,jumpers, or computer is my tandy's problem.will post details when finished.
 
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I'm pretty much an expert on these cards. If I can make one work on a PCjr, I'm sure that I can get them to work on anything.

However, I'm going to be brutally honest here. I can't stand reading your posts so I've just been skipping them. The spelling and punctuation mistakes just make them too hard to read.

If you are not a native English speaker, then I apologize. Otherwise, please use more effort when you post. I can't take the time to read and decipher them if you won't take the time to make them readable.
 
the jumper settings are here:
http://total-hardware.info/c/E-H/20270.htm

What version of BIOS does your card report when it boots? version 8.2 is the one I'm using, but again, I have an 850, so your card might need something different. I believe 8.3 is a bad version, at least for 8088 CPUs.

If the BIOS doesn't see the drive, then drivers and other software won't do you any good either, because you've got a hardware problem.

The BIOS should print out some drive information at boot. When you get that far, then drivers will help you get the CD-ROM up.

The drive should be terminated, as well as the card, and the drive should be at ID 0.

Also, try taking any other not essential card out of the system. you may have a conflict somewhere.

-jeff!
 
thanks for the info and note.

sorry,i know my grammer is so bad.

i lost too many gigabytes from my school years or perhaps never had.

i will try to make it more pleasant or understandable to read by making my posts shorter.

just had too get as much info as possable posted and it has helped.thanks

i will first try the card in a different computer.

i agree that if no drives are detected at bootup then i have a hardware problem.

i beleive i had to disable one of the jumpers on the motherboard to get the old hardcard to work when installed a few years back.

i will look into irq settings and addresses.
 
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Hi,

Actually it's not the grammar that is so bad rather than the formatting of the posts. Simply do these three things

  • Use a SPACE between the end of one sentence and the beginning of the next one. In other words, tap the space bar.
  • Use a capitol letter when you start a new sentence.
  • Use more paragraphs (double line feeds) to split up the posting into related chunks, so it's not one long continuous stream.
Just doing these three things will make your posts a lot more readable.:)
 
Back to the topic,

Be sure that the host adapter and the drive are set to different device IDs. The adapter counts as a SCSI device and has it's own ID number.

Termination is necessary at both physical ends of the SCSI chain. If the adapter is at one end and the device at the other, both should be terminated regardless of SCSI ID numbers.

Observe the termpwr (termination power) settings (jumper) for the device and the adapter. Some host adapters activate termpwr on the board, others depend on the device to supply it's own termpwr, and still others are selectable for either. Likewise for the device, some are, some not, and some selectable. Just be sure that one, and only one or the other has it activated, never both.

--T
 
Further to T's post, should you ever find yourself in this situation, note that he said "Termination is necessary at both physical ends of the SCSI chain."

If you have internal units, that's the last unit on the cable and the card.

If you have external units, it's the last unit on the cable and the card.

HOWEVER, if you have both internal AND external units, it's the last internal unit on the internal cable, the last external unit on the external cable but NOT the card.
 
I tried the TMC-840 on two different computers other than the tandy. Both would not show any bios or drives detected at the top of the screen when i booted. im thinking its because it boots too fast and flashes by too quickly.


I loaded that driver on both computers that searches for the controller and scans IDs. The first computer would not detect a controller. The second did detect the controller and scanned IDs but doesn't show any drives when i connect an internal drive,external or both at the same time. Fdisk does not detect any drives other than the IDE drive. The scsi controller detection driver still does not find any controllers when external drives are connected to the external port.




Im thinking TERMPOWER may be the culprit.

Does an internal drive provide or need termpower?

How does one know what drive or controller provides this if no docs are on the pheripherals?

Im going to have to read and research alot about scsi setups because this very confusing.



I did get a parrallel to scsi adapter to work on the Tandy by providing it with termpower by turning on an external hardrive. There was also a cdrom drive hooked up at the end of the chain. A passive terminator was also on the cdrom drive . All worked fine with no probs.



I then set up the same external harddrive,cdrom drive hooked up to the TMC-840 on the new pentium computer and it still would not detect a harddrive.

Why wouldn't this same setup work on the TMC-840 ?

Does the TMC-840 provide termpower ?


I also made sure whatever drives i hook up have a different id #.
What ID # does the controller use if theres no ID # jumpers on the card?
Is there a default # that controllers use?

Back to when i tried in the tandy.
I disabled the tandy motherboards onboard IRQ5 by turning off dip switch 2.this is indicated as what your supposed to do when you install a harddrive. This is described on the TANDY 1000 FAQ website. i looked at card jumper settings on the website mentioned in the above posts and it looks like its set at the defaults. IRQ is set for 5 and address jumpers are both off (CA00h).

scsi jumper options are: >>=default

» Interrupt Request is IRQ5
JP3
pins 2 & 3 closed

Interrupt Request is IRQ3
JP3
pins 1 & 2 closed

» Time-out delay is short
JP6
pins 1 & 2 closed

Time-out delay is long
JP6
pins 2 & 3 closed



BIOS ADDRESS

» CA00h C800h CE00h DE00h
JP1 open open closed closed
JP2 open closed open closed



TANDY 1000 TX motherboard jumper settings

E1-E2 Enables serial port (standard)
(remove to disable)
E3-E4 Selects the serial port as a COM-1 device (standard)
(remove to select serial port as COM-2 device)
E9-E10 Selects 640K main memory (standard)
(remove to select 768K main memory)
E11-E12 Connects printer select signal to parallel port
(remove to disable printer select signal) (standard)



Switch S-2:

#1 OFF Selects composite monochrome monitor
ON Selects color RGB monitor (standard)
#2 OFF Disables on board interrupt 5
ON Enables on board interrupt 5 (standard)
#3 OFF Disables on board interrupt 6
ON Enables on board interrupt 6 (standard)
#4 OFF Disables on board interrupt 7
ON Enables on board interrupt 7 (standard)


Im not sure what the cards address setting should be set for on the tandy. I tried all IRQs and address settings and all fail to detect a hardrive.

Im starting to think my card is defective or broken

boy oh boy
i need an aspirin
 
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The card is usually ID7.

SCSI is a very useful and powerful peripheral control mechanism, but, you have to know all the little nuances of type, connectors, terminators, width, etc. etc. etc or you'll soon find yourself banging your head against the wall, very, very hard.

Find a SCSI primer on the net and study it. Once you get the hang of it, it's a piece of cake compared to something like MFM.
 
Well actually the card can only select IRQ 3 or 5 .

I will try to disable the IDE (i believe IDE uses IRQ 5 or 15) on the pentium machines (the one that detected the card) BIOS SETUP and try the card out with different setups.

thanks for the info
i will make the time to study scsi.
 
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Ok, I have a TX as well, but, I don't have a 8 bit SCSI card.

Anyone know if a 1522A will work in an 8 bit slot?

If it does, I'll pull the hard card and play around, when I get a few minutes, and try to get a SCSI hd working in it
 
im starting to think.

If the cards IRQ or address is not set right wouldn't the tandy hang at bootup or provide an error code or something? The tandy hangs when i plug an 8 bit VGA card into it because of a tandy video conflict. i think the old hardcard did the same thing when dip switch 2 was not turned off or it didn't detect a harddrive....i can't remember what the harddrive did.

if anybody has had or recognize the same (card detected and no drives found) problem that im having or perhaps know how to fix it i will be most pleased.

I will still try to find time to study scsi on the net when i have time.
thanks
 
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I read another post somewhere that 16 bit scsi cards (if that is what the 1522A is) will NOT work on 8 bit slots. Unless there are some that will take 8 and 16 bit slots. I also read that some 16 bit VGA cards WILL work on 8 bit slots.

Note:Scsi cards will need a boot rom on the card if you want to boot from the scsi drive on the Tandy TX.

check out these three sites about tandy upgrades

http://www.oldskool.org/guides/tvdog/1kfaq.html

http://www.oldskool.org/guides/tvdog/1000TL.html

http://www.oldskool.org/guides/tvdog/TXSX.html

you can also check out my tandy in the tandy section of the forum site titled "Hot Rodded Tandy 1000 TX" . It has a 486 chip installed and it is mainly a TV gaming computer

http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?t=9967
 
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I'd use microsoft's MSD.exe utility to examine what memory is free, and what IRQs are being used.

http://oldfiles.org.uk/powerload/msdos.htm

Take every non-essential card out of the machine (including the 840), and run MSD.

Make note of free areas in memory where you can get the SCSI BIOS to install to.

Make note of free IRQs that are available and see if you can set your card to one that is available.

Then set the jumpers on the card and install it. Don't attach drives yet-just run MSD again and see if the card's memory and IRQ are now being reported as being used.

Then install a single drive, terminated at SCSI ID0. If the machine doesn't recognize the drive, then either the drive itself is incompatible with the card (drives made after your card was made may not be) or bad. The cable may also be bad.

This will at least help eliminate a hardware conflict and remove a variable from the list of things that could be wrong.

-jeff!
 
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Druid6900 said:
Ok, I have a TX as well, but, I don't have a 8 bit SCSI card.

Anyone know if a 1522A will work in an 8 bit slot?

If it does, I'll pull the hard card and play around, when I get a few minutes, and try to get a SCSI hd working in it
Click to expand...

Did you get that 1522A from me? If so, good luck! That card worked perfectly for me for a couple of years till I upgraded from W95 to 98SE, then I couldn't get it to work (But then, I didn't really spend much time trying, only 'bout an hour-or-so). I just ended up replacing it with a 1542 that didn't give me any headache of any kind. Dat's plug-n-pray for ya...gimme jumpers any day.

--T
 
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