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Anyone opposed to the idea of this?

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linuxlove

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<title continuation>Since it's hard to find a place that has LOTS of disk images and such for vintage computing...</title continuation>

Since i have a server now (which I'm trying to get run 24/7 BTW), I was thinking of running a free for download place that has disk dumps, data cassette MP3's, paper tape files, ect. Since I've googled for places like that and I havn't really found any good sites that have lots of disk images all in one place, would anyone be opposed if they would make good working images of their disks and tapes so that stuff like BASIC interpreters (for Altair and the like), CP/M images and PC-DOS images be avalible, ready for download anytime?
 
So long as no intellectual property rights are violated (hint: MS-DOS and PC-DOS are stil covered by copyright), it sounds like a fine idea.
 
Chuck(G) said:
So long as no intellectual property rights are violated (hint: MS-DOS and PC-DOS are stil covered by copyright), it sounds like a fine idea.
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Huh. I didn't know that MS-DOS was still under copyright. Anyway, I guess I will host disk images and cassette audio and paper tape files. Although... People here will have to take time to make copies of their stuff so it can be set to me where I can have it on my server.

I hope this will help everyone here.
 
I think it is a good idea. Perhaps some DOS images for those that have problems getting computers going could be compiled using FreeDOS and DrDos. I haven't run those on a sub 386 so I'm not sure.
 
Well, from what it sounds like, the answer is "yes DO IT". I've made a sample page for the archive, so if you will check it out (http://genericnet.ath.cx/vcdisks although there are no disk images yet). Since my server also isn't up 24/7, I'll also have a mirror of these images up on my old rubbermallet.org site. So, if people would be kind enough to take time and dig through their disks and tapes (including paper tapes), I will gladly host these images, so long as i can verify that they work right. If you get any good disk images, please give me a message.

This seems to be my contribution to the vintage computing folk :D
 
i'd like to see a ROM repository as well.

Yes, technically a lot of that stuff is covered by copyright, but c'mon. is acculogic or future domain going to try and shut you down for hosting a copy of their BIOS? I think not (because they don't exist). If nothing else, you're doing them a favor by allowing people who bought their hardware the opportunity to still be able to use it.

I most certainly don't want to derail this thread into a legal/piracy/abandonware discussion, but it has most certainly been my philosophy that it is often easier to ask for forgiveness than to get permission.

I say do it. host it all. make sure there's a contact section, in case someone complains about you hosting something so you can take it down. Bigger fish have existed for years (see bootdisk.com) and they seem to manage without getting snared in legal battles.
 
Linuxlove,

Have at it. Post a link in the link section of the forums. But it's not tied/sponsored to vcforum - it'll be your own thing.

There is a need for careful archiving and cataloging. But I wouldn't start unless you knew you were going to be in it for the long haul with a full time server with appropriate bandwidth. Otherwise, the rest of us are just going to expect it to disappear in a few years when you go shopping for your first car. ;-0


Mike
 
hargle said:
I most certainly don't want to derail this thread into a legal/piracy/abandonware discussion.
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I hate those threads. You're lucky this is one of the friendlier forums around, because if you started a discussion like that on vogons.zetafleet, the moderators there would probably blow your head off with a shotgun.

hargle said:
I say do it. host it all. make sure there's a contact section, in case someone complains about you hosting something so you can take it down. Bigger fish have existed for years (see bootdisk.com) and they seem to manage without getting snared in legal battles.
Click to expand...

We ought to have an archive of things like rare OEM versions of DOS. There's no need whatsoever for common stuff like DOS 6.22. For example, I have two different OEM CDs of DOS 6.22/WfW 3.11 laying around, one for a Micron and one for a Zeos PC. You can also find truckloads of them on Ebay.
 
It's the unfortunate battle of archiving for the public vs piracy and copyright material. As things that are commonly found on auction sites go by, eventually they'll become a lost commodity and hard to find as well. I like the effort of a software/rom depot/archive. The easiest way to stay out of trouble is keep it free. Nobody is profiting off of the archive, it's just being used by fans of the products and architectures which one would love to be flattering to the company though I'm practical enough to know otherwise.

Anyway, I agree the important thing is to make this something that will last or if not something that can be passed off or passed around easily enough to make it a useful collaboration. I had intentions of offering similar data on a BBS but as I've stated before my own motivation failed me and I fell short. I'll put it back on my several year long to-do list but when I do I'll try and host the archive as well if one gets created. Otherwise it could also get accessed per another forum and requests.. course I guess a news group could work for that too. .. oooh.. fidonet ;-)
 
hargle said:
iYes, technically a lot of that stuff is covered by copyright, but c'mon. is acculogic or future domain going to try and shut you down for hosting a copy of their BIOS? I think not (because they don't exist). If nothing else, you're doing them a favor by allowing people who bought their hardware the opportunity to still be able to use it.
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I have a simple rule. If in doubt, ask. Legally, copyright runs for 95 years in the US, so don't make yourself a target. I suspect that distributing WFWG 3.11 will probably get you into a lot of trouble.

I'd restrict things to offerings by now-defunct companies. Still chancy by current laws, but you have much less chance of attracting the attention of one of the big boys who will come and sit on you.
 
Right. This is kind of the debate as Chuck's correctly pointing out. The law's on the side of the copyright holder no matter what, someone might have a bad day and enough assets to come after you regardless of big or little usage. As a "supplier" of the data it's a bit worse than just a casual one time download (per the law (look it up since I'm not 100% on the numbers anymore) greater than 20 copies distributed or greater than $xx,xxx (10K?) of damages or value) to be good for legal pursuit.

That being said, anyone is able to take that risk. It's just nice to know what the risk is. In general not selling it will get you more "polite" cease and desist letters than (and I'll gladly say idiotic) resale of such material.
 
Chuck(G) said:
I suspect that distributing WFWG 3.11 will probably get you into a lot of trouble.
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Why would anyone do that, anyway? As I said, anyone that wants WfWG 3.11 can easily find it on Ebay or a similar site.

As things stand, 75 years is acceptable for things like music and movies, but it's ridiculous for software. The copyright terms on it should last at most 30 years. It should also automatically expire if the source code for it no longer exists. Just my opinion.
 
I say post whatever you want but:

  1. Make sure that you are not charging for it, or collecting money in any fashion whatsoever.
  2. Make sure that there is a an easy way for software publishers to contact you about removal
  3. Make a statement about how they software is available for private use and not to be sold by third parties
  4. Make sure that if someone contacts you via number 2 or a cease and desist letter you remove the software immediately.
 
The business of "not being for sale" as a legal dodge is pretty much urban legend. If you're depriving someone of a sale because something that they'd normally sell is now available for free, you're doing them economic damage. Just because you think a product isn't for sale, doesn't mean that it's not (ask any government procurement officer about what's paid for "obsolete" software and equipment).

That's really all I have to say about this.
 
Chuck(G) said:
The business of "not being for sale" as a legal dodge is pretty much urban legend. If you're depriving someone of a sale because something that they'd normally sell is now available for free, you're doing them economic damage. Just because you think a product isn't for sale, doesn't mean that it's not (ask any government procurement officer about what's paid for "obsolete" software and equipment).

That's really all I have to say about this.
Click to expand...

This is VERY true and I agree with it 100%, hence numbers 2 on my list. Its not perfect, but I doubt someone like Microsoft would bother suing a private individual about some very old software that they neither sell nor support anymore (mind you, they could if they wanted to and would definitely win). At most they will send a polite cease and desist letter/email (hence number 4).

Also, if the large company is still around, send them an email and ask permission. The worse that could happen is that you get told no.
 
lutiana said:
I say post whatever you want but:

  1. Make sure that you are not charging for it, or collecting money in any fashion whatsoever.
  2. Make sure that there is a an easy way for software publishers to contact you about removal
  3. Make a statement about how they software is available for private use and not to be sold by third parties
  4. Make sure that if someone contacts you via number 2 or a cease and desist letter you remove the software immediately.
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I was going to suggest exactly the same thing. This methods seems to have worked well for the HOTU: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_of_the_Underdogs

However, it was/is a Thai operation and might not be so sensitive to U.S.A companies and laws.

There will always be a risk of getting the short end of the stick.
 
pontus said:
I was going to suggest exactly the same thing. This methods seems to have worked well for the HOTU: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_of_the_Underdogs

However, it was/is a Thai operation and might not be so sensitive to U.S.A companies and laws.

There will always be a risk of getting the short end of the stick.
Click to expand...

Here's an interesting tidbit about that:

I was the contact for HOTU here in the states. Well, my PO box was used, and it wouldn't take that much effort to pull up my personal records from the post office and come and get me if anyone really cared that much.

Of the five or so years that I was the contact, not 1 single C+D letter ever showed up in the box or anything else legal or threatening. There were far, far more donations from users and we even received a copy of an unreleased game straight from the author himself so we could publish it on the website.


ok, this thread has totally derailed now. sorry, sorry!
 
Hello linuxlove:

I say go for it! However, as they have all said, don't host any content that is still under copyright unless you have gotten permission from the company. I will be setting up my own server soon. Maybe we could be partners?

What OS are you using on that PIII? I am using a P250 on my server :)

PM me!
 
This is not the first and won't be the last thread on the issue. I believe it's the "making them public" that is the big problem. I encourage everyone who has media to back it up to a modern hard drive that is in turn backed up. Let people know what you have. When a request comes from this forum or elsewhere, those with the files can decide the legality on a case by case basis and choose to send images if the request seems legit. For example, if a person claims to have the Win 3.11 disks, but their copy of disk 2 is bad, I don't see any reason that we should not help by sending an image of just that one disk.

I don't like the idea of a huge public site that one can simply grab enmasse whether they need the files or not. There needs to be some kind of gatekeeper.

Bill
 
Chuck(G) said:
I'd restrict things to offerings by now-defunct companies.
Click to expand...

So, any SCO stuff would be ok, then? ;-)

Oh, the idea is nice. I was also thinking drivers, and things like config utilities.
What do you do if you find a DFI-400 network card with soft setup?
 
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