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Sad Sad News

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phogren

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Apr 24, 2009
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Eagle River, WI
I live in a rural part of Coastal central California. I was working on a small trailer near the gate to my 40 acres when I notice 11 cars racing up my dirt road. 6 cars in the front were police vehicles. They jump out of their cars with weapons drawn and handed me a search warrant. My neighbors in retaliation for me complaining about an illegal septic tank they installed, told my counties environmental health department that I had been burying and burning computers. None of which I have ever done. There were 3 computers at the top of one of my hills that had burned up in a grass fire over 13 years ago. They dug holes, terrorized my animals, and refused to let me monitor what they were doing. The only thing they found was a place that they called a "staging area" where I placed some computer "stuff" waiting for a load to the recycler. I was told that a law passed in 2007 made it legal to only have 5 computers (I find it hard to believe) and they stated I was by definition a universal sold waste disposer. When I tried to explain that it was just a hobby and I collected and kept only old computers, they just laughed.
So now there are a lot of "baby Macs", some Osbornes, some Commodore, and some Kaypros going to the recycler. I have already taken one load and I almost cried as I threw them in the ewaste recycle bin at the landfill. I am keeping some of the backs of the baby Macs that have the autographs inside as I don't think they will be able to say anything about that.
I'm 62 years old, never been arrested, never even gotten a traffic ticket in over 15 years and they had more police here than they would have had for a drug bust.
What a sad state of affairs when our government wastes it's time.
 
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A law making it legal to only allow 5 computers? If that's the case, then we're already breaking it as there's... *counts* 12 systems in the house already, most of them mine.

That is very sad news though, will they not even let you sell the stuff?
 
I was told under no circumstances was I to sell anything. They reluctantly recanted on some of the boards, mother boards, HD controllers etc etc which I can take to a metal recycler. It's hard to explain the gut wrenching feeling of throwing a Kaypro II into a recycle bin.
 
I find it hard to believe there's a law regulating the number of computers a person may own. But if you have dozens of the things piled up outside, computer 'trash' scattered over the property, or a commercial-scale salvage operation, you could very well be in non-compliance with rubbish, environmental, and/or zoning regulations.

What does your lawyer say?
 
Are you kidding? This is unbelievable! This country slides closer and closer toward totalitarianism every day.

Did they say whether this was a state law or federal law? Have you consulted an attorney? I just graduated from law school and would be happy to look up the law if you can give me the reference.

Did they confiscate your computers, or did they simply order you to dispose of them? Because you could probably rent a storage unit to store most of your systems if you can't keep them at home.
 
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I don't think we are getting all of the story. Keep your guns holstered.

Owning any number of computers is not illegal. But if it looks like he is running a salvage operation of some type, then he might be subject to restrictions. As the wise poster said, "What does your lawyer say?"
 
Lawyer says wait and see if they charge me with anything. There is a big difference between piling things up in the city than there is in on a 40 acre parcel in the middle of no where. Since I have always used a recycler for any thing I was disposing of I don't think I am guilty of any crimes. The basis of the complaint was groundless and a simple matter of retaliation. I am sure if I was a wealthy person and had a lot of money to spend on an attorney things would be different, It's a sad state of affairs when only the wealthy get justice,
 
Santa Maria? That's horse country--or used to be, isn't it? Very scenic area. Getting populated by too much big-city money wanting to raise grapes, I think.

My guess is that if you simply got a storage shed and stashed your gear in it, the cops couldn't fault you with anything. Your gear would be out of plain sight and the cops would need a warrant to discover it.
 
I'd like to stay on friendly terms with each and every member here, so I'll omit the political and overly-opinionated comments I had planned....

Since I have always used a recycler for any thing I was disposing of I don't think I am guilty of any crimes.
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I believe you. But I also understand the seriousness of the allegations and the reason for a strong enforcement/investigative response, considering the highly toxic materials found in computers and electronics. Can you imagine the effort and expense necessary to clean up an illegal rubbish facility if someone had been burning and burying computers?

The basis of the complaint was groundless and a simple matter of retaliation.
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Likely so; authorities often become involved in personal / neighbor disputes.

So, if the computers were properly stored and no junk was visible from off the property, how would the neighbors even know what you were doing? Do you suspect someone may have been trespassing?
 
Contact your state attorney generals office and see if they can help you. Also, if legal, like it is here in NY state, carry a small recorder in your pocket and tape every thing they say in your presence. Don't let them know you are doing it. You might get some interesting evidence to use in a law suit. I'd also ask to see this law in writing. Really, any business in your area could be breaking the law. What business doesn't have a half dozen computers networked together. You are getting bullied. Push back!!!

And don't throw any more vintage computers away or recycle them until you resolve this. You are not doing anything wrong, imo.
 
Uh, no more legal advice this this thread, other than to talk to a legal professional.

Carrying a hidden recorder is *really* bad advice in most states.
 
Well I think that there was trespassing is obvious. There was nothing visible from anywhere. I am going to try and get the information that was used to obtain the warrant tomorrow. The people that I am 99% sure were complaining were basically just lying, retaliating against my complaint about there septic tank - a problem that the county is ignoring. There are NO computers buried anywhere on my property. Why would anyone do that? I have legally disposed of a lot of computers and until now it has never cost me anything more than gas to drive down to the highway and meet the recycler. The burned computers, three I believe, were burned up in a wildland fire 13 years ago. I at one time looked at trying precious metal recovery but the bells and whistles along with the health hazards of trying to do it were outrageous considering the small amount of material I had. These people went through my barn and gigged me for having the covers off some baby macs and haveing about 8 kaypros with the lids off waiting for a rainy day to combine them into maybe 2 or three working models. On the baby Macs, I changed out some burned out picture tubes that had some burn in and the burned in tubes all went to the ewaste facility where they don't charge for only three at a time. The storage shed was gone through and there were about 8 HP Envizex systems waiting for me to play around with networking them together, several old hard drives, 3 texas instrument computers, and 2 486 systems. I am getting rid of most of my collection but I am keeping probably more than they would like. I have a Northstar, a Franklin Ace, several Commodore 64's and 128's, a 1702 monitor, Apple IIe with all the bells and whistles including operating CP/M card, several Apple IIgs, an older 286 machine setup for making CP/M disks and apple disk transfers, 3 Mac Portables (hoping to get one working out of it), and a few other PC's. They are going to have to tell me chapter and verse that says I can't keep them.
 

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Welcome to California. Home of the green police.
$20 says they are trying to bugger you out of your land and they are going straight for where it hurts.
My uncle had the same happen to him almost when his neighbors tried to make him lose his double lot because they didn't like his sawmill he built so he could build his house and make a bit of oney on the side. He managed to bypass the local bylaw which said you could not have a fixed (sitting on concrete blocks means it's not portable) sawmill on a residentail property by cutting the rear axle off a junk car and welding it to the frame of the mill (you can sit a portable mill with at least one axle on concrete blocks).

Regardless though, I would personally never leave computers or any electronics out in the open. There's too many nasty things that could happen.
I can also tell you that if the legal limit was five, I know of MANY people (seome even well known) in Cali who are breaking that law.
 
And I'm saying that this is the wrong place to be dispensing legal advice. And from this point forward, unless the advise is 'consult a professional', it's getting deleted.
 
As a confirmation of "consult a professional"...

While yes, in some states it may be legal to record someone without their consent, in many others, it is a crime. Not just a civil violation that can get you sued, or get you a small fine, but an actual criminal act. That's why you often hear "this call may be monitored or recorded" when you call big companies, because if they DON'T make that disclaimer, they might get in serious trouble.

Likewise, while in some states, making a video recording on public property, even of people, is legal for noncommercial uses; in others, you have to have permission of the people you videotape, even if you're videotaping "in public". Some states are even pushing to make it a criminal act to videotape the police, no matter the circumstances. (And for all I know, the law has already been passed in some locations.)

So: DON'T RECORD PEOPLE WITHOUT CHECKING WITH A LAWYER FIRST
 
Once you've asked what to do, it sounds like you should hold off disposing any equipment until you're sure of the rules. If selling is not allowed (biting tongue on how I feel) giving things away to other collectors may not be. If that's the case you can probably recoup shipping costs or get some local folks to help relocate some of the systems, as their "requirement" of going to a dump imo is worse for the environment than someone having them.

Quite shocking news to hear though. I wouldn't recommend this since it may be what the allegations are regarding but what does it require to become a recycler in CA? I heard there were some neat laws since a lot of them just relocate the higher waste to appropriate disposal systems and they get some exemptions or payment or something (yeah vague). Again, I wouldn't do that just since I would guess the claim has something to do with that in the first place.

Let us know what your lawyer says if you have one.
 
phogren said:
II was told that a law passed in 2007 made it legal to only have 5 computers (I find it hard to believe) ...
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I also find this very hard to believe unless there is some priviso, like not allowing them to be stacked up outside where public might have access (health hazard?) etc. If it is illegal to only own 5 computers then nearly all the members of this forum and a great many members of the public would be breaking that law.

I'm also interested to hear the full legal arguments.

Tez
 
Not to start anything and I understand why the mods are paranoid, but re-read what I said and also consider...it's on your land!!!

VintageComputerman said:
... Also, if legal, like it is here in NY state, carry a small recorder in your pocket and tape every thing they say in your presence. ...
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Yes, consult a lawyer because what it sounds like is you are being bullied and intimidated. I just don't like to see people harassed like this by others because I myself have been a victim in something dissimilar but related.
 
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