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PDP 11/45, Part 2

Hi All;
THANK YOU, CommodoreJohn, for Your Help and for Your Awesome Reply.. Now to look In BitSavers for Some Binary Paper Tapes, that I can Try and Load in..
THANK YOU Marty
 
Congratulations! :p^2

You don't say which of the M9301 variations you have (-YA, -YB, etc) but most of them have some simple CPU diagnostics embedded within the PROMs. In the M9301 manual it tells you what the starting address is to run the diagnostic code prior to dropping into the console emulator. This will give you more confidence in the operation of your CPU.

Most versions of the M9301 have a binary loader that can be invoked on the console line (like loading from an ASR-33 reader) as boot device 'TT'. You might try booting from that device code on your module. Then you need to be able to send a binary file (PDP-11 .bin format paper tape image) down your serial line using your terminal emulator. I use TeraTerm for this purpose, but other terminal programs can probably do the same feature.

An option down the road if you can scare up another serial interface card (a second DL11-W) would be to configure it for use as the TU58 serial interface at 776500/300, and then it can be used to load/run XXDP diagnostics, and even an RT-11 system image.

Don
 
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Hi All;
THANK YOU Don, for all of Your Help and Kind Words..
I have the M9301-YF, and just in case I am going to try the other Boards again.. I don't expect any spectacular results..
Since I have core, I can Load the different Loaders into it..
""An option down the road if you can scare up another serial interface card (a second DL11-W) would be to configure it for use as the TU58 serial interface at 776500/300, and then it can be used to load/run XXDP diagnostics, and even an RT-11 system image.""
That will be my next hope..
"" In the M9301 manual it tells you what the starting address is to run the diagnostic code prior to dropping into the console emulator. This will give you more confidence in the operation of your CPU.""
I think that, that is what I have it doing at the present, If I am reading the manual correctly..
THANK YOU Marty
 
M9301-YF is a good one, it knows how to boot from TT (as well as a lot of other disks/tapes that you don't have ... yet).

Don
 
Congratulations Marty!

A hard won fight.

Do I understand correctly... you can run the serial console emulator ROM?

If so - I have a way you can load and run XXDP diagnostics by sending them to the Console SLU from a PC. (no TU58 ) I'd need to know which diags you want to run, and make up a load file for each, for you.

Don, can you provide a list of XXDP Diags for him?
 
11/45 CPU code is 'C', so these would be diagnostics of the form '(D)CKxxrv.BIN' where (D) means diagnostic (but is omitted on diagnostic packs, as all diags start with D), CK means 11/45 CPU, xx is the specific diagnostic, r is the rev (A,B,C, etc) and v is the version (0,1,2, etc). I don't seem to have a diagnostic pack image old enough that has these on them. Unfortunately when the RL01 and RL02 pack images started coming out DEC started leaving off some of the earlier CPU and peripheral diagnostics. Or they might never have been there in the first place, as all the early diagnostics mostly went out on paper tape.

Don
 
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Congratulations Marty.

Best 'suspense novel' that I've read in quite a while. Its not often that you get a blow-by-blow account of an ongoing maintenance action. You deserve a lot of credit for your dedication and perseverance.
 
Hi All;
RSX11M, Thank You for the Offer, once You have done it, is there a way for me to do it instead of You doing it, Or is Your copy coming from a DiskPack ??
""Do I understand correctly... you can run the serial console emulator ROM? "" YES, YES !!!!!!!

""If so - I have a way you can load and run XXDP diagnostics by sending them to the Console SLU from a PC. (no TU58 ) I'd need to know which diags you want to run, and make up a load file for each, for you. ""
Instruction Exercisor, MainDec 11-DCOKC-D_D,
Basic CP, DCKBA, DCKBB, DCKBC, DCKBD, DCKBE,
Registers DCKBH,
States DCKBO-A..
That should be enough to keep You Busy ALL Night !!!!
THANK YOU VERY MUCH Marty
 
Hi All;
Agent Orange, THANK YOU so Much for Your KIND and Encouraging Words..
I couldn't have Done it without all of the Help and Support of EveryOne..
I din't want this Machine to End up like the PDP 11/40..
THANK YOU Marty
 
Ok, thanks Don and Marty - let me explain this a little then.

Working with Lou a while back, we developed a means of transferring the contents of memory in and out of systems via Console SLU using the Console Emulator ROM or MicroODT or even ODTX.

I was able to load a diagnostic (under XXDP at my end) right to the point where I had a restart address for the Diag. I'd then halt the system, and dump memory to a file.

Lou would receive the file via email and send it to his system (his 11/04) using the Console Emulator in this case, and he was able to start and run it from there. He was also able to dump his ROM contents, and email them back to me - which I needed to debug some TU58 boot issues and to do a more proper simulation of his system to perfect the transfer mechanism. ( a DOS program )

I stopped working on it when interest seemed to wane. In the time we used it, a couple members were able to successfully use this method to load XXDP ZRQC and format MFM hard drives for use on systems without a second SLU to run XXDP from emulated TU58.

It's a little "brute force" but it worked. To make useful files for you, I'd need to know how much memory you have. (I already know the CPU) Using these, I setup a simulator (E11) and load the diagnostic any way I can. (paper tape or disk "images" usually) Once loaded, it's a simple matter to halt the system and create a memory image file of it. If it's an XXDP diag, the memory image includes XXDP.

So I now need to see if I have those diags in any system images I have, or online. There are a number of paper-tape trays that were transferred to bitsavers - it might help if you could look through there to see if there's anything interesting.

You will need a PC running DOS, Win98, Win2K or XP with a serial port hooked to your 11/45's Console SLU. Can you work that out? (and let me know how much memory please)
 
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That should certainly work, but is a bit convoluted and not necessary given the correct support in the CPU bootstrap. If you have the 'TT' bootstrap code, it supports loading .bin format files (ie, binary papertape images) which are in DEC loader format. This is how diagnostics were loaded in the early days. Except they (usually) used the high speed paper tape reader 'PP' device. The principle is the same, however, just a different set of CSRs. All the DEC .bin diagnostics on the XXDP disks are just binary image loader files, same as would have been punched on paper tape.

Theoretically Marty should be able to get to the console prompt of his M9301, then invoke the 'TT' bootstrap. This will put the PDP-11 into the bin loader routine, expecting to see a binary paper tape image come over the serial line. You would then send the binary image file over the serial link in 8b binary image mode.

Note that the early diagnostic (like the 11/45 images) program files don't need the XXDP monitor co-resident. The programs are completely standalone and self sufficient. XXDP basically just acts as the binary image loader and is not used when the diagnostic is running. If the diagnostic does not overwrite the XXDP image usually you can get back to it at the restart address, if you are able to halt the diagnostic cleanly. This is not always possible (like with memory diagnostics); these require a reboot.

If you had an ASR-33 with paper tape reader, this is the way you would get the diagnostic into the system (assuming you had no high speed reader/punch). This would be the most optimal way to get the diagnostic image loaded thru the console port.

I basically use this mode on my PDP-8 as well, using the internal RIM loader to load the BIN loader, and then sending BIN format PDP-8 tapes over the console serial link (using the binary file send feature of TeraTerm).
 
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Hi All;
I can't sleep..
RSX11M, I have 28K of Core Memory.. Full Un-Mapped max Memory..
I have a PC with Serial port(s), I am running XP, and my Terminal Emulator is Tera-Term, (I forgot what version)..
I have downloaded from BitSavers, Various Trays (files) from the Paper Tape Section of Dec 11/XX.. I have not looked at any of them to see what I have, or would like.. I tried to look at the accompanying .txt file to see what was in a particular Tray of files..
I can use Tera-Term to 'Dump' files to the 11/45.. The 11/45 would 'think' its a fast TeleType..
I also have a Hex Editor, if it is needed on the PC side of things.. Like IF a file is corrupted or combining two files.. I did alot of this while working on/with My Altair 8800 and using a SpaceByte 8085 CPU and modifying code that a friend of mine had written for that CPU, But it needed to be paired down to work in my system.. He Wrote His own Operating System as well as Assembler for the SpaceByte 8085 Board.. But by the time I had my Board, His System and Operating System and Code were for a different 8085 Board of His own Design.. I still have a copy of the Assembler, but I have not used it in a long time, and I cannot share it without His permission..
I still need to know How to download from the Console..
THANK YOU Marty
 
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Thanks Don. Yes, I realize there are other ways... this is the only one I have that's "paved". I'll leave it to you two to decide.

I just tested an RL02 XXDP+ disk image. (see the full contents here) It can be booted in as little as 8KW of memory. If he needs to run in less, it will have to be paper tape emulation. (BTW - the smallest I can simulate is 4KW )

It has these files which match your specs:

Code: 
   85  CKBAB0.BIC       3-MAR-83          4    002536
   86  CKBBB0.BIC       3-MAR-83          4    002542
   87  CKBCC0.BIC       3-MAR-83          8    002546
   88  CKBDC0.BIC       3-MAR-83          8    002556
   89  CKBEC0.BIC       3-MAR-83          3    002566
   90  CKBIB0.BIC       3-MAR-83         13    002571
   91  CKBCB0.PAT       9-AUG-83          1    002606

  851  1155  .CCC       9-AUG-83          2    037155
 
Hi All;
RSX11M, Thank You for doing this..
I have untared the Trays of the files that I think I might want.. I have trays -- 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 10, 12, 13..
There are a couple of Absolute Loaders and Maintenance Loaders, which I will want to get into the System first..
I will experiment with what I have and see what I can do..
I found "Loading and Dumping Core Memory", so I will follow the instructions, and let everyone know how it goes..

THANK YOU Marty
 
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Hi All;
I think I got both the Basic Loader and the Absolute Loader to Load, and save themselves to core..
With the Absolute Loader, I think I have Loaded a program, I will try other programs, that I might be able to tell for sure If everything is OK..
I have loaded Three different programs with the Absolute Loader all starting at '000200, and they have all seemed to run fine..
Next is the PAL Assembler.. The Pal Assembler is loaded and came up..
I have shut down the system, as I don't at present want to Run it for too long, until I can get a couple of Fans on it.. No need to get it too hot !!!
I don't know two things one is the Re-Start address for PAL11S and in the documentation it show How to Load from the High speed Tape Reader, but not from the TeleType, H is for HighSpeed, What is for TeleType ?? Is it T ??
THANK YOU Marty
 
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Hi All;
I have been looking thru my copy of "Dec 11 Paper Tape Software Handbook".. And I found the commands that I wanted to know about..
Now my biggest problem, is when or during the Assembly Process it will 'OutPut' a file or a number of files, and Capturing them Could be a problem, it wouldn't be IF I had two serial ports that way one would be the Terminal and the other would be the ""Paper Tape Punch""..
I need to find out IF I can do Both on the same Terminal port..

Another Possibility, is I have Three Spectra Logic "DEC" Boards and they are Both Tape and SMD Disk Controllers.. I haven't looked to see if all three Boards are Both Tape and Disk.. They are.. They are Spectra 21 Dec Boards.. So, the possibility exists, that I might be able to Hook up an SMD Drive to it and that the PDP 11/45 would see it..
There are alot of things to work out before everything can work out.. First I have to see If any of the SMD drives are any Good, and that depends on having or finding a good set of Cables..
Then Since I have NO manual for these Boards, I am going to use the manual for the Spectra Logic Data General Disk Parameter Settings and hope that they are the same or close.. For example I think I might still have a good Priam SMD Drive, so I will look that particular Model up in the Data General manual and find the Settings for the Priam Disk Drive, which states Heads, Cylinders and such, and use the same setting on my DEC Board.. The rest of the switch setting I am going to leave alone, not knowing at this time what they do..
The other problem is which of the DEC Drives are being Emulated on this controller, since I know "Nothing" about the different drives that DEC made size and address..
So, I would need to Try the different Bootstrap loaders until I get a response on the Drive and that assumes that everything else is working correctly and ALL the switch settings are correct, on the Controller..
THANK YOU Marty
 
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Hi All;
I Think I have some good news, First one of the M7800 boards looks like it might be Good.. Its address was set up for TU58 Emulation, but some of the Wires had been cut, so it could neither respond to the Standard address, nor to the TU 58 address.. I took a closer look at this, foud the problem and fixed it for TU 58 emulation.. And the Computer sees it, and there is NO Address Error Led lighting.. I do not have it wired with a cable, So I do not know IF it will "Talk" to the terminal.. That is Next..
Also, In response to Reinhard's Answer to my Question and that I have a Board, I can try to use His Simulation instead of using my Spectra Boards, where there are so many unknowns.. Granted I have No Idea even if My RL Board works, But we can Hope that it will.. It is an M7762..
And I can hopefully use the TU58 Emulation, for Software to check out my RL Board and make sure it is good..
THANK YOU Marty
 
Hi All;
I got an "A" to Display to the Screen, Now to modify an "Echo Program" to work at this address, and see if it totally works in Both Directions..
YES, it works in/ with the Echo program,
I Now have two good working Serial Boards !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THANK YOU Marty
 
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