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5.25" 96 track per inch
- Thread starter cruising
- Start date
Tor
Veteran Member
Post #23 in this thread.. the catweasel isn't a traditional floppy controller.
k2x4b524[
Veteran Member
But you won't be able to boot from it or anything, plus I believe you need the drivers installed before you can even use the card for your drives. The other cards we are talking about can be made bootable, AND work right out of the box.
Ah i see! Yes i know i cant boot from that card, but thats not my priority by getting this card, i just want to be able to install a internal 1.44Mb floppy, i boot from my HDD atm, but in future i might need one of these you talking about if my HDD would crash, after all..it is an 32 years old HDD and still kicking...for the moment
Eudimorphodon
Veteran Member
To reiterate, yet again, (lest it still be at all unclear) the CatWeasel doesn't "do the same thing" as a high-density capable XT floppy controller *at all*. Not being bootable is just the tip of the iceberg.
So far as DOS is concerned a floppy attached to a Catweasel doesn't exist; it won't appear as a drive letter, you can't just copy files on and off it, it's not really a "drive" at all. The Catweasel is a device designed specifically to do oddball tasks like reading Commodore 8-bit/Amiga/Apple II/Macintosh/whatever floppies, which a normal PC floppy controller electrically can't handle, into image files from which you can use software to extract the contents, or for writing said image files back to real floppies. Really the only thing it's good for is doing data transfer with non-PC computers. (And to be fair, it's quite useful for that.) Heck, according to the product page at Individual Computers the MS-DOS tools for the Catweasel *only* support reading disk images, it can't even be used for writing them back to disk.
(Also, double-checking, you're looking for something that works in an XT, right? I'm pretty sure you need at least a 486 class-ish machine to even drive the Catweasel due to the way it does data transfer.)
So far as DOS is concerned a floppy attached to a Catweasel doesn't exist; it won't appear as a drive letter, you can't just copy files on and off it, it's not really a "drive" at all. The Catweasel is a device designed specifically to do oddball tasks like reading Commodore 8-bit/Amiga/Apple II/Macintosh/whatever floppies, which a normal PC floppy controller electrically can't handle, into image files from which you can use software to extract the contents, or for writing said image files back to real floppies. Really the only thing it's good for is doing data transfer with non-PC computers. (And to be fair, it's quite useful for that.) Heck, according to the product page at Individual Computers the MS-DOS tools for the Catweasel *only* support reading disk images, it can't even be used for writing them back to disk.
(Also, double-checking, you're looking for something that works in an XT, right? I'm pretty sure you need at least a 486 class-ish machine to even drive the Catweasel due to the way it does data transfer.)
There it came all out! i had no idea that you cant write files to it, and thats good to know. Then this card is pretty useless for me. So i have to search for a 16-bit HD floppy controller, i just hope i dont make a fool of my self and buying the wrong card lol
Thanks for your reply.
Eudimorphodon
Veteran Member
One thing... in your other thread about what I assume is the same computer, you mention having an external 1.44 MB floppy? How is that connected to your machine? 1.2M 5.25 floppies need the same controller as 1.44's. Does the external floppy something that plugs into a parallel port, or is it plugged into the same disk controller you're already driving your internal 360k on?
Also regarding that thread: are you having these formatting issues just on these new "96TPI" floppies you bought, or *every* floppy you try? (Do you have any other 5.25 inch floppies to try?) If those disks are for are high density 1.2MB drive they're pretty straight up just not going to work right; they *may* complete a format without errors, depending on the DOS version you're using, but they're not going to work properly, period. (The difference between high density and low density 5.25 media is a lot greater than the difference between HD/DD 3.5 disks. You can sort of get away with using HD media in DD 3.5 drives, at least for temporary/disposable purposes. Not so with the five inch disks.)
Also regarding that thread: are you having these formatting issues just on these new "96TPI" floppies you bought, or *every* floppy you try? (Do you have any other 5.25 inch floppies to try?) If those disks are for are high density 1.2MB drive they're pretty straight up just not going to work right; they *may* complete a format without errors, depending on the DOS version you're using, but they're not going to work properly, period. (The difference between high density and low density 5.25 media is a lot greater than the difference between HD/DD 3.5 disks. You can sort of get away with using HD media in DD 3.5 drives, at least for temporary/disposable purposes. Not so with the five inch disks.)
I connect the ext floppy to my parallel card and not the controller card.
Its the same on every floppy i trying to use, Yes i have some 1.2/1.6Mb floppys, but i dont use them in my Tandy since they cant be used so as you say. But i have a HD 5.25" floppy also, but i dont know if that one works since i cant plug it in. I have some others floppys to, DSDDs and they act the same as the new ones.
carlsson
Veteran Member
Can you take apart the external floppy drive? I believe it will have at least some passive adapter, if not even a small controller to go from the card edge connector to the parallel output. If so, it could be worth looking into if you can put a 5.25" HD drive instead.
As for the availability on older PC hardware in Sweden, it is often a matter about asking the right people as not as many tend to advertise their spares. Personally I don't have any parts that will help Cruising, but I could ask around a little unless you find a decent priced floppy drive controller somewhere. As long as you buy privately, I think you will find that international shipping isn't as bad as a lot of those eBay sellers try to make it look like. I have also more than once been put off by the mere idea of buying vintage parts from the USA due to how it appears that most professional resellers inflate the handling & shipping expenses.
As for the availability on older PC hardware in Sweden, it is often a matter about asking the right people as not as many tend to advertise their spares. Personally I don't have any parts that will help Cruising, but I could ask around a little unless you find a decent priced floppy drive controller somewhere. As long as you buy privately, I think you will find that international shipping isn't as bad as a lot of those eBay sellers try to make it look like. I have also more than once been put off by the mere idea of buying vintage parts from the USA due to how it appears that most professional resellers inflate the handling & shipping expenses.
Yes i can take it apart, i already have done that to see what parts it was built with, if i get the right cable i might be able to plug my 5.25" HD drive into that (edge to pin conetor). But that would look like shit since the external floppy is way smaller then a 5.25 drive, at least i can test my HD drive.
Yes thats what i mean by saying mostly C64 are for sale on Tradera and Blocket. And since i dont know any other then my self and just one other guy from this forum, i do not have many ppls to ask in Sweden. If you could ask your contacts i would be glad, even more if you find one for me lol.
The problem with the shipping is the weight, i bought my external floppy and paid like $10-15 bc the weight wasnt so great,but the box was big.
And if you buy a used floppy drive from ebay you never know what you get, if it works and so on.
What make model of external parallel port floppy drive is it ?, If it's a 1.44 Mb Backpack floppy drive Chuck posted details on modding them to take a 5.25" floppy drive a while back, I did mine and it works well with 360K and 1.2Mb drives, doesn't look Sh$t at all.
Yes it is a Backpack 1.44, it might not look like shit if you can make some sort of housing big enough to fit the floppy drive with the backpack board. If you have a picture on your work, please post a picture on it
Yes it is a Backpack 1.44, it might not look like shit if you can make some sort of housing big enough to fit the floppy drive with the backpack board. If you have a picture on your work, please post a picture on it
I never went that route, Mine is still the same state but with a new floppy cable fitted which runs out of the back of the drive, All i had to do was take a smidgen of plastic away from inside the top cover to allow for the cable coming out of the back of the drive, So the cable didn't get crushed when the case was closed. I just hook up whatever drive i want to use using an external power supply for the 5.25" drive. It shouldn't be too difficult finding a case to house the 5.25" floppy drive if you wanted too and stack them.
So you have the drive lying on the top on the backpack with no housing at all for dust etc? After all it sounds like a good non permanent solution, but im looking for a permanent solution, internal or external with a case. And also for a working tandon 5.25" 360kb drive since mine loves to NOT work lol
Chuck(G)
25k Member
No, the ISA CW will work in an XT. Unlike a regular floppy controller, it uses a 128K SRAM to hold data, which is transfered by programmed I/O. So, for instance, to write, you'd output your data to the SRAM, then initiate the floppy operation. If you were reading, you'd initiate the floppy operation, wait for it to complete and then read the SRAM. Index holes are recorded by setting the high-order bit in each 8-bit sample.
The CW, as I mentioned before, is dumb as a stump. You have to time your step pulses with software to move the head carriage, for example. Definitely not your everyday floppy controller.
krebizfan
Veteran Member
For a more permanent solution, try to find a 5.25" enclosure for CD-ROMs. It used to be very cheap to get parallel port external CD-ROMs. Open the 5.25" case, remove CD-ROM and logic board, and install floppy plus the Backpack's logic board. Then you will have a nice looking 5.25" parallel port external floppy drive.
There was a 5.25" Backpack model which is great but scarce and expensive these days.
Yeah thats a nice idea actually! but i gonna buy 2 other half height 360Kb internal floppy's first and try my luck
archeocomp
Experienced Member
I know a seller in Europe (but not in Sweden), that had recently aproximatelly 30 new old stock 360kB TEAC drives, and it is low selling item as she said to me. From time to time they sell these at ebay.de too..
http://www.elmix.pusku.com/detail/show/8035
If i had know hat earlier XD Are they all white?