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aging floppy issues

mikey99 said:
Is there a way to test the diskettes before putting them in the drive?
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I take a look at the disk's surface. If it looks smooth and even, then it's worth a try. If it has numerous lines and gouges on the surface, then I hold off on it until a "special projects" session when I'm ready to clean the drive heads if necessary.

Even back in the '80s I had numerous 5¼" floppies get "scratchy"-sounding on me. The disks would still read and write fine, but when spinning, they would make a constant "tsst-tsst-tsst" noise. This happened a LOT with Fuji Film floppies for some reason. Aside from the noise, they never gave me much trouble. So a "scratchy" sound while spinning isn't necessarily bad, but a whine or squeal definitely is!
 
vwestlife said:
Even back in the '80s I had numerous 5¼" floppies get "scratchy"-sounding on me. The disks would still read and write fine, but when spinning, they would make a constant "tsst-tsst-tsst" noise. This happened a LOT with Fuji Film floppies for some reason. Aside from the noise, they never gave me much trouble. So a "scratchy" sound while spinning isn't necessarily bad, but a whine or squeal definitely is!
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The "tsst" "tsst" sound is the cookie spinning in the jacket. I've even got some 3.5" floppies (as well as numerous 8" ones) that make this sound.
 
Trixter said:
I have had this too and if I leave it in there, it rubs off onto the head and I have to clean it. The disk is toast.

If there is a way to save a disk that has that high-pitched whine, I'd love to know. I've only lost 12 or so disks, but one of them had info I really wanted to save.
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Apparently, baking the cookie (200F) helps to rejuvenate the binder. You could always squirt the cookie with Magnesee and read it with a microscope...:mrgreen:
 
ive never heard of using alcohol whenever i had a disk that started to fail i always spit in the window and spun the disk with my hand then copied it. dont know why but 9/10 times it works
 
An excellent site. Apparently the problem is a breakdown of the binding glue which holds the metal oxide to the substrate as it absorbs moisture over time. The "baking" is actually dehydration and the site even recommends a particular kitcen dehydrator appliance. It gives links to other sites, including one of Wendy Carlos, where valuable old tapes have been rescued. Sounds encouraging and applied to old computer fds also a good guide to storage of the medium, including emphasis on the "dry" in the usual "cool, dry, storage". Perhaps saving those little "dry pouches", which come in many medicine bottles and numerous other manufacturer's containers, and putting them in your FD containers could extend their life.

I use electric heating in our long cold winters which necessitates using a humidifier for most healthful living, in my most occuped central rooms. The computer room where most of my disks are stored I leave only slightly heated to save on heating costs and then turn up the baseboard heater if I intend to be working there. It would seem that leaving the heater at a comfortable tho dry heat would well be worth the small amount extra I save on my heating bill and help save my old disks. It would seem wise to also store my considerable 8-track collection and old cassette tapes there.

Thanks for the pointer.

A bit off-topic, but similiar, does anyone know what causes the melt-down of synthetic rubber rollers in some printers (and 8-track cassette rollers :^} ) .

Lawrence

vwestlife said:
"Baking" is often used to help restore an audio tape that is shedding oxide.

http://www.tangible-technology.com/tape/baking1.html
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Micom 2000 said:
A bit off-topic, but similiar, does anyone know what causes the melt-down of synthetic rubber rollers in some printers (and 8-track cassette rollers :^} )
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This is a frequent topic on the audio tape forums. In particular, why some pinch rollers turn to goo after only 10-15 years and others are still doing fine after 30 or 40. Yet others seem to age the other way and crack and chip.

The consensus seems to be that there are variations in the curing process used for the neoprene. Apparently, it's another black art--not enough curing and the roller will gooify; too much and it turns to stone.

This is completely separate from the topic of belts. There the major culprit appears to be ozone. Keep your rubbery gear away from ionizing air purifiers, copiers and laser printers--and don't live in an urban area if you want your belts to last.

There are horror stories about some poor soul installing an "air purifier" and having not only the belts on the VCR disintegrate in 6 months, but also anything made of rubber in the whole room, including double-glazed window seals.

Belts in 3M DC-xxxx QIC tape carts are polyurethane. These seem to self-destruct in less than 20 years. Fortunately, there are readily-available substitutes. I've had to rescue many carts full of "backup" data where you could see the tension belt flopping around loose in the housing.
 
Just a suggestion to toss out there is if you're into vintage anything and have the need for an air purifier it'd be wise to invest in a nice HEPA filter. Single room units are very affordable these days and they won't pose a danger to aging rubber or other things such as records. What I never understood is why people buy the ionizing air "filters" and why companies get away with selling them. At our level Ozone (O3) is poisonous and is considered a pollutant at ground level. Be weary of those devices. Another way to look at it is HEPA filters will remove dust and nearly all particles from the air so they'd keep dust off your prized possessions!
 
I guess this ionizing process could possibly explain why belts use their tensile strength, but I'm a bit skeptcal. I have a hi-quality NAD CD-player which wasn't working until I replaced the belt with a somewhat homebrew replacement. Similar problems arise with belts in VCRs. Other than unlubricated rails, that also seems the villain in the failure of many fdds. Is there any cure other than finding a replacement belt ? I've often thought of using heat to shrink the belt back to it's old size. Is there any sort of de-ionizing vehicle which might work ? From what I understand those machines simply put a positive charge on the air going thru it. This may be naive but could a negative ion "bath" therefore reverse the process ?
Sounds sketchy. :^/

Lawrence
 
If the rubber belt is cracked and stretched at that point I'd call it a chemical change since its been broken down a bit. Seems like a one way street.
 
belts

belts

Well, with plastics & rubbers there's also the problem of material fatigue under stress setting in. And until someone figures out how to reverse entropy, there's not a whole lot you can do about material fatigue.
patscc
 
360k drive

360k drive

I have two complete maintenance and repair manuals for full height Tandon drives, and I re-aligned several using the Accurite alignment disk. There are many ways they can "die", here are a few I have found :
- write protection switch stuck
- track zero switch (the TANDON's dont have a light sensor, and the switch can get loose)
- loose step motor screw
- loose sector sensor (this one is a light sensor)
They look as pieces of junk, but the radial track alignment is critical +- 0.1mm
Let me know if you want a copy of the service manuals
JFL
 
3 1/2 floppies suck

3 1/2 floppies suck

In my experience, I've found 5 1/4 floppies stood the test of time better than the 3 1/2 variety, I have"HAD" several of both for both the PC and APPLE.

The failure rate of 3 1/2's was well over 90% when the things were over 20 years old, the 5 1/4's failure rate was substainly less.

:eek:
 
gerrydoire said:
The failure rate of 3 1/2's was well over 90% when the things were over 20 years old, the 5 1/4's failure rate was substainly less.
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The 3½" drives in older PS/2s have an alarming failure rate, while the original Tandon 5¼" full-heighters seem to last forever as long as you keep the heads clean and the moving parts lubricated.

FYI: DOS 2.0 and earlier is only designed to work with the full-height Tandon drives. DOS 2.1 was adjusted to accomodate the slightly different (actually slightly worse) timing requirements of the half-height drives used in the IBM PCjr and Portable PC.
 
There were no fewer than three makes of FH floppies used by IBM in the PC and XT. (Tandon, MPI/CDC and ISTR, Shugart).

Of the list, I'd probably select CDC/MPI as the best-built, but certainly not Tandon.

Of the best of all 5.25" brands, my vote goes for Micropolis. Slow (because of the leadscrew positioner), but darned near indestructible. I still have working models from 1977 sitting on my shelf.
 
Chuck(G) said:
There were no fewer than three makes of FH floppies used by IBM in the PC and XT. (Tandon, MPI/CDC and ISTR, Shugart).

Of the list, I'd probably select CDC/MPI as the best-built, but certainly not Tandon.

Of the best of all 5.25" brands, my vote goes for Micropolis. Slow (because of the leadscrew positioner), but darned near indestructible. I still have working models from 1977 sitting on my shelf.
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And now all we can buy is made in china trash....:mad:
 
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