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Apple II plus issue

Yes 4C 28 F1 4C 3C D4 are correct. Oh, ADTPro over audio, I haven't done that, just with the serial card. Volume settings are touchy when it comes to audio transfers.
You do really need to get an AppleCillin diagnostics disk for the next step. I bet it will boot.
 
Actually the first byte of my ROM from that command is 0C not 4C so that might be a problem (the rest match).

I have had pretty good success with ADTPro over audio, but it is really touchy. On some computers it works and on others it doesn't. Unfortunately I don't have a Java capable computer with a physical serial port. I will keep messing around with the settings and maybe see if I can use a different computer to load ADTPro.
 
Yes, AppleCillin will be able to verify those ROM's much easier than by sight. Sounding more suspicious for a bad ROM.
Plus, if it fails one ROM that would confirm but if it fails more than one ROM, then probably something else instead.
 
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Just intuition, but it sounds more like a bad socket or bad chip to socket connection to me.
 
Right now it seems like AppleCillin will be my best bet for testing. Unfortunately I don't have another II+ to try the ROMs in to see if it is a bad socket. Any tips for cleaning the sockets?

Once I get the disk made and test the machine I will let you guys know the results. Also does this program run with only the first bank of RAM filled or would it be prudent to fill all the RAM sockets if it tests RAM?
 
The best way to test sockets is very painstaking.

I visually inspect each pin with a lupe. Then I scrape each contact with a small screwdriver. Then I try to bend each contact so that it puts more pressure on the chip. Then I check continuity from each socket contact to some remote spot on the board, the uP where possible.
 
Hopefully, AppleCillin will run regardless of good/bad ROM and can test the Basic ROMs . A bad ROM or a bad ROM socket is logically the same thing as far as diagnostics. I would say dont try cleaning until test is run. Maybe stick with 16k until you get it to boot. It should run with 16k
 
Reseat all the socketed IC's. The A2 used terrible Robinson Nugent sockets. These mostly make contact with narrow inside surfaces of the IC pins. I have not seen an A2 that didn't have problems with them. As an additional step, clean the IC pins with a pencil eraser.

I got so sick of this problem with my A2 that I replaced all the motherboard sockets with gold plated military grade sockets. (took 3 days with a desoldering tool). I now own the worlds most reliable Apple II! I'll post pictures in the next couple of days.
 
Reseat all the socketed IC's. The A2 used terrible Robinson Nugent sockets. These mostly make contact with narrow inside surfaces of the IC pins. I have not seen an A2 that didn't have problems with them. As an additional step, clean the IC pins with a pencil eraser.

I got so sick of this problem with my A2 that I replaced all the motherboard sockets with gold plated military grade sockets. (took 3 days with a desoldering tool). I now own the worlds most reliable Apple II! I'll post pictures in the next couple of days.

Actually the most reliable Apple II is owned by Dr Wendell Sander from Apple. To troubleshoot an issue with the Rev-1 Apple II, he took a blank board and soldered the chips right on it. No sockets. Wendell still has the board. It's very cool.

Cheers,
Corey
 
Actually the most reliable Apple II is owned by Dr Wendell Sander from Apple. To troubleshoot an issue with the Rev-1 Apple II, he took a blank board and soldered the chips right on it. No sockets. Wendell still has the board. It's very cool.

Cheers,
Corey

I thought
 
Actually the most reliable Apple II is owned by Dr Wendell Sander from Apple. To troubleshoot an issue with the Rev-1 Apple II, he took a blank board and soldered the chips right on it. No sockets. Wendell still has the board. It's very cool.

Cheers,
Corey

Ok, I'll give him this one, soldering the chips right to the board would be a wee bit more reliable. Would make repairs/modifications much harder though. I remember the idea of making the //e motherboard socket-less was floated at the 1983 Independent Developers conference. Nearly everyone there hated the idea.
 
And with sockets, I put integer roms in one of my II+ boards to have a II since I could never afford a real one anymore thanks to ebay
 
I just took one of my II+'s out of storage and it had the same problem as a couple I've had in the past. All the RAM was fine, but the 174's at B5 (or "B8") went bad. I think all the chip selects go through these, so the machine does wacky stuff when they go bad. I have a tube of them, so this happened to me before a couple years ago.

Anyway, you could try swapping them and see if the problem changes. As I mentioned, there are a ton of chips on an A2 board, so you really need another one to find it "shotgun style" if you don't know how to use a scope or logic probe and have a good understanding of the design.
 
Well I am still trying to get AppleCillin onto the Apple via audio. Is there any other way to transfer disk images over audio, or does anybody have any hints for getting the audio to work? I can get the Apple to listen, but my computer won't detect the audio from the Apple. Unfortunately all of my computers that have a serial port are not capable of running a current Java version.

As for the socket issue, I would like to wait until I try the diagnostics just to see what happens. As for B5 and B8 I did swap those chips and nothing seemed to be different.
 
OK, if it works far enough for you to type on it and attempt to bootstrap it, then you are mostly fixed I would think.

Can you let us know the current state of it? Also, I would recommend also posting at applefritter.com if you haven't already. Some of those guys can tell you what chip is bad by a screenshot.
 
I am able to boot it and get to the basic prompt. I cannot enter a line of code though. After I press enter the machine freezes until I press reset. Then when I try to enter another line of code and press enter it falls into the monitor. As far as I can tell the monitor works just fine for what I have done with it (entering the few commands that retrogear gave me).

I have yet to try to boot into a disk yet because I am trying to use my IIe to get a disk made, but my modern computers don't like to talk to my IIe via audio.
 
I am able to boot it and get to the basic prompt. I cannot enter a line of code though. After I press enter the machine freezes until I press reset. Then when I try to enter another line of code and press enter it falls into the monitor. As far as I can tell the monitor works just fine for what I have done with it (entering the few commands that retrogear gave me).

I have yet to try to boot into a disk yet because I am trying to use my IIe to get a disk made, but my modern computers don't like to talk to my IIe via audio.

I didn't follow the whole thread, but it sounds like a bad ROM or some bad RAM. It could be some of the logic chips, but those are the most likely culprits. You need a drive and Disk II card...

Alternatively someone could send you an Apple diag disk, but you'll probably want a way to make disks anyway.
 
Well, if you can't get a boot disk, get into the monitor and try listing or dumping the contents of E000 or D000 and compare to documentation online. If a ROM is bad, it should return bad code or lock when you read it's address space
 
I thought I would give another update. I had made some more progress with ADTpro. I successfully got the IIe and the new computer to talk, but I can't get any disk image over to the IIe, and the diagnostics transfers 4 sets of blocks (i.e. if 1 block at a time transfer its 4 blocks, 4 blocks it crashes at 16, and 5 at 20). ADTpro server has some gibberish in the status bar, and the IIe just waits for it to send more data.

I found that there is another program called ADT that runs in DOS, so if I can find that I will use that for the serial port transfer. If that fails I will resort to comparing the ROMs by hand.
 
IIRC, the MS-DOS variant of ADT is just the older version of ADT-PRO.

I don't know where the cutoff is, but audio interface bootstrapping was not always available. It yustaby you had to key in the ML yourself.
 
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