rittwage
Veteran Member
Keep in mind, the EGP hub will re-pack the units, and it seems they are notorious for packing it WORSE than the original seller. It may not be their fault at all... but eBay will still screw them either way.
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Are there many.... ANY SX-64 owners here?
- Thread starter CanadaPhil
- Start date
CanadaPhil
Experienced Member
Update....
Holy Cow, I already received a resolution via email!??
Excert...
Dear Philip XXXXX,
We've finished investigating your claims, and we've decided both cases in
your favor.
Because the global shipping provider was at fault, you'll receive a full
refund in the amount of $201.09 USD. Please allow up to 5 days for the
refund to appear in your PayPal account. After the refund is complete,
we'll close the case.
We value your business and hope that your future purchases go more
smoothly. For more information about your case, log in to your PayPal
account and click Resolution Center.
----
OK, GREAT I guess.... But no request for me to pack up the junk and send it back?? Do I get to keep it all as a Freebie?? Is the seller being completely slammed by them or is this hopefully all an "insurance" matter?
And as I was typing the Pitney Bowes part of the two part refund has already come through!???
I am completely shocked here... And even feeling bad. I need more info.
Wow.
Further edit... And the rest of the FULL REFUND has just been deposited back to Paypal. I am literally floored. This all seems completely unbelievable to me. I have checked the details of my dispute file and there is nothing showing anywhere to instruct me to repack the item and send it back!??
This is one pic of what is left of keyboard. Those tiny bits are actually shattered plastic shards. The function keys had akso all been popped off, but I put those back just to see if they would. The space bar is screwed.
Holy Cow, I already received a resolution via email!??
Excert...
Dear Philip XXXXX,
We've finished investigating your claims, and we've decided both cases in
your favor.
Because the global shipping provider was at fault, you'll receive a full
refund in the amount of $201.09 USD. Please allow up to 5 days for the
refund to appear in your PayPal account. After the refund is complete,
we'll close the case.
We value your business and hope that your future purchases go more
smoothly. For more information about your case, log in to your PayPal
account and click Resolution Center.
----
OK, GREAT I guess.... But no request for me to pack up the junk and send it back?? Do I get to keep it all as a Freebie?? Is the seller being completely slammed by them or is this hopefully all an "insurance" matter?
And as I was typing the Pitney Bowes part of the two part refund has already come through!???
I am completely shocked here... And even feeling bad. I need more info.
Wow.
Further edit... And the rest of the FULL REFUND has just been deposited back to Paypal. I am literally floored. This all seems completely unbelievable to me. I have checked the details of my dispute file and there is nothing showing anywhere to instruct me to repack the item and send it back!??
This is one pic of what is left of keyboard. Those tiny bits are actually shattered plastic shards. The function keys had akso all been popped off, but I put those back just to see if they would. The space bar is screwed.
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MarkO_
Experienced Member
Yes, the Keyboard is all Plastic, but the rest is fairly nice.. Much more metal than an regular C64, ( I have a couple of them too, in unknown condition ), or a C128 ( I have a couple of them as well, in unknown condition and Three VIC-20's ).
MarkO
I am so sorry to see what happened to your SX-64. That's a real shame and I shudder to think what it was shipped in. A plastic bag? wow. Just awful. Glad you got your refund. I usually plead with the sellers to remind them about protecting items from damage as the boxes do sometimes get hurled into the back of the delivery vans.
Mine is being shipped from across the country so fingers crossed the seller does a better job of packing it.
Mine is being shipped from across the country so fingers crossed the seller does a better job of packing it.
lotonah
Experienced Member
Just saw this thread.
Sorry to hear that you've had to go through this, CanadaPhil... I know what it is like to have the anticipation of a new classic computer on the way (just like Christmas!), only to have a horrible experience.
I'm curious... are you going to rebuild it, or sell it for parts? I could use a handle hinge assembly, if you decide to go that way.
Sorry to hear that you've had to go through this, CanadaPhil... I know what it is like to have the anticipation of a new classic computer on the way (just like Christmas!), only to have a horrible experience.
I'm curious... are you going to rebuild it, or sell it for parts? I could use a handle hinge assembly, if you decide to go that way.
CanadaPhil
Experienced Member
Im not even sure yet. Im going to wait the full 5 days to ensure that my refunds have actually cleared. It was a split type funds transfer. I can already see $150 sitting in Paypal and the remainder has gone to a Credit Card transfer that is not showing up as posted yet.
Then I want to make sure that the claim is marked as resolved and closed on the Ebay/ Paypal system, and if there are in fact any instructions to return the damaged goods through Pitney Bowes. Right now there are none!
Getting something for nothing does NOT sit well with me at all! This had been someone's property and I need to know that they have not been cheated out of its value by the fine print of Ebays very weird Global Priority "racket". Maybe the seller will even write as he is copied on all the dispute communications. If it turns out Ebay has in fact gone back against him I will make some kind of arrangement to mail the thing back to him.
As it stands right now, it appears I have been given a "fixer upper" SX64 for FREE!??
This seems surreal.
geoffm3
Veteran Member
Well, if it was packed as bad as you say, then I wouldn't feel too bad for the seller if it ends up a chargeback on him. I doubt they would want to ship the thing back as that just costs more money for something demolished.
I imagine more likely their shipping insurance will eat it.
I imagine more likely their shipping insurance will eat it.
jac_goudsmit
Experienced Member
Phil, I wouldn't worry about sending the item back. They don't want it anymore (or they wouldn't have sold it), and with eBay returning your money, the case is probably closed, with no room for negotiation on the seller's part. You could have contacted the seller first, before filing a claim with eBay, but you have the right to do what you did, and this is basically eBay protecting you from sellers that have hundreds of items and just throw them in a box and carelessly ship them out with complete disregard for the value that the item might have to the buyer.
I try to buy from sellers that obviously have a good history, not just positive feedback but also a history of selling items that I'm interested in. If THEY care about items that I care for, it means that it's more likely that they'll package and ship it with the care that the item deserves. I bought some very big and heavy items that made it through shipping without a scratch, and I'm extremely happy with them.
On the other hand, sh*t happens to me too: last year I bought a Digital Compact Cassette deck that was shipped in a box with only a piece of foam around it, and it got completely destroyed in the mail. I tried to contact the seller and they didn't answer at first, then I posted a negative review and THEN they got back to me offering a full refund if I would send them pictures of the item and if I would modify my review. I told them I would be willing to do that, so they refunded my money, I changed my review to a positive one with a short remark saying the item was as described (whereas I usually put something in my review about packaging and shipping speed -- I left that out this time).
Sellers are usually happy to negotiate with you about an item that got damaged in shipping. If the item is expensive enough, they should have insured the shipment and they can put in their own claim with the postal service / Fedex / UPS / whatever and get their money back. It's always easier and better for sellers to send a refund to the buyer and hopefully still get positive feedback, than to get a charge-back from eBay or Paypal or the credit card company, because I think a charge-back costs them extra fees and leaves a stain on their reputation. If sellers get too many charge-backs in a certain time period, they may get barred from using the payment service; you can probably imagine they want to avoid that, especially if they make a living from selling items on eBay.
===Jac
I try to buy from sellers that obviously have a good history, not just positive feedback but also a history of selling items that I'm interested in. If THEY care about items that I care for, it means that it's more likely that they'll package and ship it with the care that the item deserves. I bought some very big and heavy items that made it through shipping without a scratch, and I'm extremely happy with them.
On the other hand, sh*t happens to me too: last year I bought a Digital Compact Cassette deck that was shipped in a box with only a piece of foam around it, and it got completely destroyed in the mail. I tried to contact the seller and they didn't answer at first, then I posted a negative review and THEN they got back to me offering a full refund if I would send them pictures of the item and if I would modify my review. I told them I would be willing to do that, so they refunded my money, I changed my review to a positive one with a short remark saying the item was as described (whereas I usually put something in my review about packaging and shipping speed -- I left that out this time).
Sellers are usually happy to negotiate with you about an item that got damaged in shipping. If the item is expensive enough, they should have insured the shipment and they can put in their own claim with the postal service / Fedex / UPS / whatever and get their money back. It's always easier and better for sellers to send a refund to the buyer and hopefully still get positive feedback, than to get a charge-back from eBay or Paypal or the credit card company, because I think a charge-back costs them extra fees and leaves a stain on their reputation. If sellers get too many charge-backs in a certain time period, they may get barred from using the payment service; you can probably imagine they want to avoid that, especially if they make a living from selling items on eBay.
===Jac
CanadaPhil
Experienced Member
Well, as long as I can get confirmation that it was all taken care of through "insurance" (that you pay through the nose for with Ebay's GPS plan) I will be OK with it all.
The item was actually only $129 US. That extra $80 odd tacked on was for shipping to Pitney Bowes Clearing Hub in Kentucky, Damage Insurance, Customs Fees, Duties and Taxes, and tracking to final destination.
So, if after all this I get a free "winter project", then what the heck. Its not exactly a collectible anymore in the strictest sense, but I have already thought of a few ways to fix it while concealing the damage (sort of).
Oh!..... Amazingly, the little CRT is not shattered! But you can tell by the crunched bottom left corner of the cardboard box that the thing took a HUGE shock (probably dropped from a height or thrown across a room) and you can basically picture that shock moved from left to right breaking all of the keyboard case latches, cracking the upper black trim plate in 2 dozen little pieces, popping and breaking several keys, etc.
The item was actually only $129 US. That extra $80 odd tacked on was for shipping to Pitney Bowes Clearing Hub in Kentucky, Damage Insurance, Customs Fees, Duties and Taxes, and tracking to final destination.
So, if after all this I get a free "winter project", then what the heck. Its not exactly a collectible anymore in the strictest sense, but I have already thought of a few ways to fix it while concealing the damage (sort of).
Oh!..... Amazingly, the little CRT is not shattered! But you can tell by the crunched bottom left corner of the cardboard box that the thing took a HUGE shock (probably dropped from a height or thrown across a room) and you can basically picture that shock moved from left to right breaking all of the keyboard case latches, cracking the upper black trim plate in 2 dozen little pieces, popping and breaking several keys, etc.
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carlsson
Veteran Member
Regarding monochrome display, some of you might've heard about the SX-100. At an early stage, Commodore advertised the B&W, single drive SX-100 and the colour, dual drive DX-64. However in the end they produced the colour, single drive SX-64 model. It is said that many business owners were awaiting the advertised dual drive DX-64 version and thus never bought the SX-64, and then some other models came on the market and offered what the SX-64 did not.
Eudimorphodon
Veteran Member
I've never been able to wrap my head around the idea of the C64 as a business computer, which makes the marketing of the SX-64 as an "Executive" machine particularly mind-boggling; I guess that people did *use* C64s to run their home businesses but I don't remember ever seeing one in a real office. Perhaps they were more popular in that role outside the US? The SX-64 is a really *cool* machine (I was more in the Atari 800 camp when I was a kid but I certainly wouldn't have spit in the face of someone giving me one for Christmas) but to this day I still don't quite understood what Commodore thought the target market was. One of my Elementatry schools used C64s in their computer labs, I suppose it would have been an awesome machine for the teachers to use, but that's not really an "executive" position.
geoffm3
Veteran Member
I agree... the were extremely pricey, especially for something carried at K-Mart (no, I'm not kidding). I can't imagine anyone in an executive position wanting something with a 40 column display, or even one that small.
CanadaPhil
Experienced Member
Now that you made me think about it, I can recall one business that used a 64.
The Mom & Pop Video Cassette rental place (member those!?) I frequented as a young teen in the 80's used 2 Commodore 64 systems for their Point of Sale registers as well as rental inventory tracking. He even had a light pen for something?
I remember both systems had dual 1541 drives in a locking metal enclosure with a 1702 monitor on top... Oh and really loud dot matrix printers.
I forget who made this system, but there were c64 storefront packages that were marketed to small retail types like the above, dry cleaners, salons, etc. for a time.
But I think thats about it. At the time, a 40 column 64 was not serious word processing platform. That changed though when GEOS came along. GEOS got me through most of University for my written reports... But I dont think any businesses were won over by GEOS.
It was the 80 column stuff the likes of Wordstar & Multiplan followed by WordPerfect, Lotus and others that ruled. The C64 must have been considered laughable in the "real" business world.
The Mom & Pop Video Cassette rental place (member those!?) I frequented as a young teen in the 80's used 2 Commodore 64 systems for their Point of Sale registers as well as rental inventory tracking. He even had a light pen for something?
I remember both systems had dual 1541 drives in a locking metal enclosure with a 1702 monitor on top... Oh and really loud dot matrix printers.
I forget who made this system, but there were c64 storefront packages that were marketed to small retail types like the above, dry cleaners, salons, etc. for a time.
But I think thats about it. At the time, a 40 column 64 was not serious word processing platform. That changed though when GEOS came along. GEOS got me through most of University for my written reports... But I dont think any businesses were won over by GEOS.
It was the 80 column stuff the likes of Wordstar & Multiplan followed by WordPerfect, Lotus and others that ruled. The C64 must have been considered laughable in the "real" business world.
Eudimorphodon
Veteran Member
Going way back to my youth and trying to recall what sort of computers I'd see being used for PoS, inventory management, in medical offices, etc, before PC compatibles really conquered the world and at least where I grew up it seems like TRS-80s were pretty ubiquitous, with the II possibly more common than the III. I also remember seeing Kaypros a lot, and in fact they were probably the SX-64's greatest enemy; browsing through the ads in a 1984 Byte magazine it doesn't look like a Kaypro II sold for *that* much more than SX-64 when it came out. An SX-64 was color and undoubtedly a million times more fun to play with but I know what I'd pick for word processing and mailer list management given the choice...
(I think most of the "other" back then was a serial terminal hooked up to "something" hidden under the desk or in a closet. Presumably those were mostly CP/M machines.)
One otherwise rare computer that seems like it was a big hit as a PoS terminal was the Sanyo MBC-550. For all I know it might have been just one company selling them in my area but at least a dozen stores had them for years, and during a visit I saw one still in service as late as 2001. (In an Army surplus shop, which seems somehow apropos.)
(I think most of the "other" back then was a serial terminal hooked up to "something" hidden under the desk or in a closet. Presumably those were mostly CP/M machines.)
One otherwise rare computer that seems like it was a big hit as a PoS terminal was the Sanyo MBC-550. For all I know it might have been just one company selling them in my area but at least a dozen stores had them for years, and during a visit I saw one still in service as late as 2001. (In an Army surplus shop, which seems somehow apropos.)
RobertB
Veteran Member
But serious enough to be used by the U.S. government and the U.S. military.
Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm
billdeg
Technician
I have a shelf full of C64 business software. There was a ton of it, plus word processing, CAD, programming utilities, etc. It was an excellent business computer, at least there was a lot of software proving a lot of people used them form business/word processing. Most C64's I have picked up from locals around here had some sort of business software that came with it. The SX-64 was the first color portable computer, not sure if anyone mentioned this already. Compared to Apple the C64 family was cheaper and more or less the same capabilities for business. 10 million in sales I bet more than half used for business or word processing, not just games. That's millions of users who relied on a C64 for school work, accounting, inventory, etc.
Oh, and I have two SX-64's. One needs a PLA chip.
Oh, and I have two SX-64's. One needs a PLA chip.
Eudimorphodon
Veteran Member
Wouldn't mind a citation on that.
(Not that I don't believe that the U.S. Government might have used them for something, I'm just curious about what specifically you're thinking of. I remember attending government surplus auctions back in the 90's that included pallets of early computers and there were all sorts of goofy things to be found in the mix. Alongside less-crazy items like Apple IIIs, IBM Displaywriters, etc. I specifically recall Atari 400/800s, at least one Tandy Color Computer, a Mindset PC... for all I know they may have dumped some Commodores at some point. These weren't school auctions, it was equipment from a government/Military facility that made, uhm, scary things.)
CanadaPhil
Experienced Member
Haha.
Im sure virtually every single computer product ever made was at one time used by the military for one purpose or another... And they probably paid triple the retail for it because you know somehow hardware store hammers end up costing $600 and plastic toilet seats end up costing $1,500 on government purchase orders.
Im sure virtually every single computer product ever made was at one time used by the military for one purpose or another... And they probably paid triple the retail for it because you know somehow hardware store hammers end up costing $600 and plastic toilet seats end up costing $1,500 on government purchase orders.
CanadaPhil
Experienced Member
You were able to use 40 column word processors?
For me, the ONLY decent package of what I would consider having "professional" features was the combined suite of Pocket Writer, Pocket Filer & Pocket Planner from Digital Solutions. In the 128 version using 80 columns and a RAM EXPANDERi it was the only package I ever found to be "IBM DOS-like" in appearance and feel. The 64 versions of this were also good because they had a decent pseudo 80-column mode. There would be no way this mode would be readable on an SX-64 though!
GEOS... Also completely unusable on an SX-64.
You guys must have other definitions of "business" computers.
For me, the ONLY decent package of what I would consider having "professional" features was the combined suite of Pocket Writer, Pocket Filer & Pocket Planner from Digital Solutions. In the 128 version using 80 columns and a RAM EXPANDERi it was the only package I ever found to be "IBM DOS-like" in appearance and feel. The 64 versions of this were also good because they had a decent pseudo 80-column mode. There would be no way this mode would be readable on an SX-64 though!
GEOS... Also completely unusable on an SX-64.
You guys must have other definitions of "business" computers.
I used 40 column word processors. I didn't care that it was 40 columns; I had a 160 column printer. Almost no one had a 160 column monitor anyway. WYSIWYG didn't really matter at that time. Word processors never really displayed exactly what was printed. There were even all kinds of formatting tokens within the text. Just because you printed in 80 or 160 columns didn't mean you needed that many columns for the display. People used word processors on VIC-20's: the display was 22x23!!
Some C64 software really was 80 columns. It was slower than snot like that but did work. Just like Apple ][ and ][+ software with lowercase text. Also, no one talks about them anymore, but there were multiple 80 column adapters for the C64. There was even at least one for the VIC-20. These things didn't catch on because for the price of them most people would just put up with 40 columns.
I ran into a small shop a couple years ago. They make a secret patented cutting-edge internal combustion engine, and a bunch of other high tech stuff. The company is run entirely with a Commodore 64 with two 1541s. I was very surprised. I didn't ask, but I assume that's just what they've always used.
Don't forget, we are all spoilt today and most of us can't fathom using a 1982 computer to do every day work. But it sure is possible and lots of people used to do it before they were spoilt!
You may be surprised to find out that I use the text editor that I wrote to code for the 6502 compiler I wrote in that editor all entirely on an SX64. Sure, it's hard on the eyes if you're not used to it. But after a while it doesn't matter. And the fact that I can code from my recliner whilst watching football without having to use emulation is priceless.
Some C64 software really was 80 columns. It was slower than snot like that but did work. Just like Apple ][ and ][+ software with lowercase text. Also, no one talks about them anymore, but there were multiple 80 column adapters for the C64. There was even at least one for the VIC-20. These things didn't catch on because for the price of them most people would just put up with 40 columns.
I ran into a small shop a couple years ago. They make a secret patented cutting-edge internal combustion engine, and a bunch of other high tech stuff. The company is run entirely with a Commodore 64 with two 1541s. I was very surprised. I didn't ask, but I assume that's just what they've always used.
Don't forget, we are all spoilt today and most of us can't fathom using a 1982 computer to do every day work. But it sure is possible and lots of people used to do it before they were spoilt!
You may be surprised to find out that I use the text editor that I wrote to code for the 6502 compiler I wrote in that editor all entirely on an SX64. Sure, it's hard on the eyes if you're not used to it. But after a while it doesn't matter. And the fact that I can code from my recliner whilst watching football without having to use emulation is priceless.