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Bulletin board and Modem question

For sure, it doesn't make sense to have a dual-core heavy duty system running just to interface the N8VEM to the internet, but if you're like many of us and the system is up 24/7 anyway then why not if it's free. But I hadn't looked at stuff like the Lantronix for a while and didn't realize you could get them that cheaply.

Speaking of using computers as bridges, I was doing a little more testing yesterday; here's what my desk looked like:

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Almost all vintage of course; the T3100 is monitoring the data flow.

Nothing new to report, alas; I'm not happy with the handshaking but can't find my breakout box.
 
I've just taken a punt on three MSS100 lantronix ethernet to serial devices. $20 each on ebay (second hand). We shall see how they work when they arrive. Addit - looks like my ISP changed my IP address - that might pose a problem too for running a BBS.
 
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I've just taken a punt on three MSS100 lantronix ethernet to serial devices. $20 each on ebay (second hand). We shall see how they work when they arrive. Addit - looks like my ISP changed my IP address - that might pose a problem too for running a BBS.
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Looking forward to see how they work out; are these the same as what Henk has?
Yeah, the DynDNS service that Chuck mentions is what I was talking about a few messages back.
Do you want to send me (us) your current address, or have you had enough of us bringing your poor N8VEM to its knees or keeping you from logging in?
 
Yes, I'll get the new IP address. I didn't think my ISP changed it that often but obviously they do. Nauru could be an option. And if they charge a bit - well it is helping the economy of a small island nation. Better anyway than Nauru's main source of income over the last decade, which has been payment from the Australian Government for detaining all the illegal immigrants to Australia. The modules are on the way, and Henk has the Xport and Rick Haseman over at the N8VEM forum is using the slightly different UDS100. Rick seems an expert on these as he uses them at work.

Earlier someone said they crashed wordstar - actually what has happened there is something has changed over the last 3 months with my CP/M code and wordstar doesn't like it, so I'm in the middle of going through two hex files side by side trying to isolate which bit of code changed. So this experiment is finding other bugs and proving extremely helpful. So a big thanks to all those helping out. I'd like to get it more robust. I think CP/M can now handle having raw xmodem data thrown at an A> prompt but I'd like to test that a bit further too.

I did get a RBBS working last night which prevented exiting out to CP/M and that probably is a good solution to making something robust. That version is compiled only though and I can't seem to get it to link to help files, so it comes up with a prompt with all the letters you can type but no clue as to what they do (? and H do nothing). Without the source code it is a bit hard to work out. But I have another version with the source code but the help file isn't the right one! So I'm still looking for a RBBS variant that has the source code and the correct help files.
 
I recall reading about Nauru and phosphate mining.

While the phosphate held out, Nauru had one of the highest per-capita incomes in the world. Sadly, most of the money was frittered away and now, with the phosphate almost gone, most of the island's pretty much destroyed. A parable for our times...

Yeah, they could use some attention.

If the Nauru domain doesn't work out, you can still get one for free using the Turkmenistan .TK TLD.
 
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Well the Lantronix devices arrived and thanks to Rick Haseman we have got them working and found out all sorts of useful information.

The Lantronix MSS100 is a neat little box 9x6cm that connects a blue ethernet cable to a serial port. Only uses 4 watts so much better than leaving a PC on all the time. You start off talking to it via the serial port and give it an IP address and a password. Then you can log into it with a number of different methods - via telnet from hyperterminal, or via some custom software on the lantronix site, or even just by typing the ip address into a browser. There are about 20 settings to get right, but they all make sense when you read the manual.

Then - open up port 3001 with portforward on the router and anyone can log in.

Then we started at 300 baud and worked up to 38400. Still working fine for logging in and running wordstar etc.

Then we tried xmodem, and it fell over just like it fell over with Leif's program. .COM programs simply would not work. So - time for some detective work. It was going to be one of two things - the baud rate or a byte. We know that the PC can talk to the board directly at 38400 so unlikely to be the baud rate but nevertheless, lots of testing revealed even at 300 baud it falls over at the same place. So - it must be a byte. I found this nifty free program called hexedit http://www.hexedit.com/ and it ended up being the missing link in solving this mystery. I was so impressed I sent them a $20 donation via paypal.

Hexedit has helped me debug the N8VEM source binary in the past, but this time I wanted to use it to make big (20k) files filled with arbitrary bytes. These files could then be downloaded via xmodem to see if they work. So I made some files with characters I was suspicious about, eg 00, 03 (^C), xon, xoff, escape, break, delete and FF. Well, they all worked except FF.

Next, and this was the bit that really impressed me with hexedit, I wanted to create a binary file with random bytes. And there it was, as one of the options! The reason for this is that while FF is a problem, what if another byte was a problem as well? So I took my binary file, found the first FF, did an xmodem transfer and yes, it failed on the packet I expected it to fail. So, change that byte, resend, see if it is FF, and yes it was. So deleting all the FF bytes means xmodem works.

Next step, send a big text file via xmodem. I've sent a 25k .asm and that works. Then, try an even bigger file. Well, it falls over at packet #255, (32k)and packet #255 is FF. So, we are limited to xmodem with text files and files <32k. I guess one could use UNLOAD to turn a .COM into a hex file.

Why is this so?

Well, searching a telnet help forum I came across this:
'FF' means IAC, which stands for "Interpret As Command". All telnet control sequences start with IAC, consequently, your program should look for IAC, and any time it receives it, a subroutine in your program should take control and handle the escape codes.

So, the problem is not with Leif's program, nor with xmodem, nor with the Lantronix devices. The problem lies with the terminal program (hyperterminal in my case, but probably others too). It seems telnet and xmodem don't like each other! I've just realised too that the reason I can xmodem via the com port from hyperterminal is that this is not using telnet.

Some possible solutions, and advice here would be most gratefully received.
1) is there a raw mode, where FF isn't interpreted?
2) is there some other login protocol besides telnet?
3) is it possible to chop up a program, rebuild it at the other end, and also convert it so there are no FF codes?
4) is there another way - eg use a file transfer protocol that doesn't use FF - I have a feeling Kermit might be the only one that can do this, but one would need the source code to get kermit working on the n8vem.

Anyway, if anyone has any ideas they would be appreciated.

As an aside, there are two n8vem boards online at present. 121.45.125.169 and try either port 23 for one or port 3001 for the other. Only thing is my ISP seems to be changing my IP address every few hours at the moment. Maybe don't xmodem any .com files for the moment - keep it to smaller text files?!

Addit - I added the dyndns service as suggested. When you log into telnet, instead of the IP address above, try n8vem.homedns.org
and use port 23 for one board and 3001 for the other. I think the link should be live by now. If it works, then at least every time I turn my computer on it will update the address.

Addit addit - blimey, they changed my ip address again!! This seems to be every half an hour or so. Well the address this minute, is 121.45.201.131. But I did log in again from n8vem.homedns.org and that seems static.

addit next morning - still a very fickle system. Somehow something disabled my PC's local area network connection (I hope it wasn't dyndns) and then dyndns couldn't find the internet, and then my isp changed the ip address again, and then the link broke. 121.45.197.210 (?for the next half an hour). The 3001 is working, but I wouldn't be relying on this yet for a mission to the moon. Hmm - more testing and the IP address has changed twice in the last 10 minutes. Each time it changes, dyndns takes a few minutes to update, so this isn't a very stable solution. It probably needs a static IP address...

addit 14th April - the boards are offline for the moment due to my telephone line becoming so noisy over the last week that you can't hold a voice conversation. I suspect this explains the dropouts and IP addresses changing. I'm getting the phone company to fix this, but one positive outcome is that it is good to test the system with the IP address changing as this means we have a system with dyndns that can handle repeated changing of the IP address so should easily be able to handle the more normal situation of it changing very infrequently. I'm also working on w3sock.dll and vb.net writing my own telnet program. w3sock.dll can pass through all characters from 0 to 255, which is a big step forward from hyperterminal, teraterm etc. However, w3sock.dll appears to have a bug where it can only read back lines that have a carriage return at the end. Reading back characters one at a time does not seem to work, nor does reading in the buffer. Options now - code Kermit for this board. Find the bug in w3sock.dll so it can read in characters one at a time. Find another .dll for winsock. Find a terminal program that can pass through xFF.
 
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So much good info in this thread..

Thinking of firing up one of my old H89s to run a BBS via a lantronix uds - 10. Gonna be a learning curve, I haven't fired these machines in 10 years, at the very least...

Gotta look for a bbs package, I've read about RBBS..

What other good CPM BBS packages are out there? Do I need to find one specifically compiled for an 89?

I might start with a emulator, and see if I can get the hang of the 89 again, without having to wade through hard sectored disks, and the massive H77 external drive unit. See what i can get going, then grudge-uate to the real deal.

Thanks
 
Here is a link to some very interesting discussions on the xport http://forums.parallax.com/forums/default.aspx?f=15&m=451576 which is similar to the lantronix modules, but more up to date, less power, smaller etc.

I've gone off on a tangent building CP/M wireless networks, but sooner or later will need to link that network to the internet so will need to revisit this at some stage. I never got kermit working - it is too big and complicated a program and I have not been able to even work out how to recompile it. So xmodem is one option. The wireless network has variable size packets and maybe there are options there for transferring data.

Since the post above, we did solve the problem of IP addresses changing by using dyndns.

If you can get a BBS up and running that would be cool.
 
Awesome thread guys. I spent a LOT of time back in the day working on CP/M based BBSs. This kind of thing is right up my alley. :)

FYI, there is a parameter within BYE (and possible MBYE) that will restrict what drives can be logged. This would cure your BDOS error without any CBIOS hacks.

When I put Age of Reason up, I used a program called tcpser. It's a utility written by Jim Brain that emulates a Hayes Smartmodem and accepts incoming telnet connections. I had to tweak it to send the telnet negotiation sequence "WILLDO ECHO" in order to prevent the caller's telnet program from doing local echo. The software is open source, although I don't know if Jim has applied the patches I sent him. tcpser runs under Windows, Linux and (I think) MacOS.

bluethunder: I've had my '89 running Citadel a couple of years ago - Citadel was born on an H-89 too. I may get that thing back online soon. Sadly, it only talks at 300 baud - I may try to tweak that up to 1200 or 2400 though.
The SEBHC guys have developed a small device that will allow you to connect a pair of 1.44M 3.5" drives to the H17 hard sectored controller. While you can only use 720k media in the drives, it does provide the sector hole pulse necessary to use soft-sectored media with the H17. They're $25 each (interfaces two drives) and they're available here: http://www.lesbird.com/sebhc/storage/storage.html The HSFE board will work with any hard-sectored controller. I've heard the new edition of the board has a jumper that will turn off the microcontroller and allow you to interrface any 1.44M 3.5" drive (720k media) to any soft-sectored controller without modification. It handles the RDY line hack normally required to use "modern" drives in legacy systems.

g.
 
Little bit of progress..

I got my uds-10 yesterday, and got it configured, and talking as serial client from my "IBM XT (AMD64 x4)" box to one of my laptops through telnet. That's pretty slick.

And, I got my second 89 powered up, and working with the H77 drive unit.. Good thing I have a complete set of manuals for that pig. Even managed to find a working CPM 2.2.0.4 disk, which I'm trying to duplicated.. I forgot how damned heavy those 89s are..

Next step, some comm software on the 89, and see if I can talk to it through the magic telnet box. Probably be it for tonight, otherwise I will be working on this until 3 in the morning..
 
I was looking at RBBS 3, to start with. Mostly because I have a disk for it. Maybe rbbs or turbo bbs.

Donno if its gonna be the h89.. I don't seem to have 1 good floppy drive out of 5 spares. Not a single one will format a disk.. Unless I've got a flakey controller, which I will swap next out of the spare 89.
 
Been puttering on this, the old H-89 seems to be the biggest hurdle. Marginal disks, marginal drives. Thinking about that SEBHC adapter that lets you use 3.5" 720k floppy drives, and turn the H-77 into a decoration.

I have been able to successfully communicate through telnet, through the interweb/dyndns, and use REACH 2.0 as my terminal software on the 89..

Still need to find a way to transfer zbbs or rbbs and BYE over, maybe a direct connection with a null modem. I have a copy of MDM711, but I'm not sure its working.

This machine may just be too old for what I'm asking of it.
 
If you've got a modem, you can easily see if your terminal program works. :)

I strongly suggest you join the heath list here: http://sebhc.org/ There's a number of really bright folks there.

g.
 
Something was up with MDM711, But I did find a copy of MDM740, which did work. transfered some zbbs files over, and then started having drive problems again.. I think I'm going to shelve this project until the 3.5" adapter arrives. I can't tell if its the media, or the drives, but both are 30 years old.

I joined SEBHC a little while ago, asking about HS disk drives, and trying to refurbish them. Lots of helpful advice there, I think these are just beyond hope.
 
Your best bet is to get a copy of IMP245 and install the H-89 overlay into it. IMP is one of the best terminal progs I've seen for CP/M.

g.
 
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