falter
Veteran Member
I think in the 8bitguy video David said something about trying to have it assembled but the particular requirements they had didn't work or something. Might also have been a cost situation.
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Commander X16 - The 8 Bit Guy's Dream Computer Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Kevin Williams
- Start date
Eudimorphodon
Veteran Member
I haven't watched the video yet so I don't know the details of the "Yamaha chip inventory disaster", but... I guess I have to admit I've found the strategy of the X16 a little bit baffling with regard to having both the VERA and the Yamaha chips. My recollection of the initial manifesto was that they wanted to avoid both embedded MCUs and FPGAs, but the lack of options for video chips drove dropping the no-FPGA requirement in pretty short order, so... yeah, not really clear on why they kept the discontinued sound chip in the BOM once that seal was broken.
The Agon Light is all off-the-shelf bits. (Two RAM chips and two MCUs, one of which in particular is dirt cheap/common.) While I'm sure a large FPGA plus a RAM chip would be adequate to swallow up the functionality of the X16 I'm not sure why it would be any cheaper than devices like the MiST or Minimig, which run closer to the $200+ ballpark.
voidstar78
Veteran Member
yea building 200 units is way different than 10,000+. But we have to be realistic, we probably won’t see those number of units. Maybe I’m wrong, they can’t make enough raspberry pi’s for example. But for the retro experience, I wish they’d ensure a standard case. I know cases aren’t important to engineers and tinkerers, but it gives an identity to the system that I think is important. And it should have a removable slot to access the expansion slots without removing the entire case.
Another unique feature would be built in basic language extensions to make tcp/ip or networked games easier. Fast sprites are neat and all, but multi player across systems I think would be a “ that’s new” feature for an 8bit. ( certain file indexes maybe tied to specific ports to stream data ).
And I think such a feature might be an expected addition to a hypothetical late 80s 8bit system- where networking was becoming more widely standardized and understood. But would it have the horsepower to do that processing and in a meaningful way without a fan? Audio + video + AI code was historically stressing enough.
Another unique feature would be built in basic language extensions to make tcp/ip or networked games easier. Fast sprites are neat and all, but multi player across systems I think would be a “ that’s new” feature for an 8bit. ( certain file indexes maybe tied to specific ports to stream data ).
And I think such a feature might be an expected addition to a hypothetical late 80s 8bit system- where networking was becoming more widely standardized and understood. But would it have the horsepower to do that processing and in a meaningful way without a fan? Audio + video + AI code was historically stressing enough.
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voidstar78
Veteran Member
Saw updated video - the "standard case" looks good (top piece variants can add a slot access panel). Little confusing on the side entry cartridge slot (only that it may not be available in the first cut ~84 or so).
Network support still in work though.
Network support still in work though.
tom.storey
Experienced Member
It's a through hole DIP board. These things are still produced in ridiculous quantities every day.
I find it hard to believe they couldn't find a CM that could assemble this board for them, if they even looked...?
The impression I got from the video is that they read some stories from people saying how they had problems with boards that were assembled for them, and took that as a green light to do it in house, as if they could do it better. They traded one potential problem for one very real problem. They've ended up in the very situation they wanted to avoid in the first place.
I have no skin in this game, and it's not something I would buy, but I feel they've wasted all of that money on a solder bath machine that could have gone towards getting a batch of PCBs done professionally, and which could very well already be out there with developers.
If the assembled boards started to have issues, personally I think I'd rather have to deal with that than try to develop a manufacturing process.
To me it just feels so tragic for them to get this far only to end up here - on the cusp of getting a new machine out but stuck trying to even bring them to reality.
Eudimorphodon
Veteran Member
My gut feeling is if they’d done a version that used surface mount instead of through-hole that might have greased the wheels for getting them professionally manufactured. At least from what I’ve gathered from trying to grok the pricing from the far east PCB puppy mills through-hole is significantly more expensive on a per-joint basis.
tom.storey
Experienced Member
Yeah definitely, although it does take away from the "retro feeling".
I guess you have to choose your poison though.
Eudimorphodon
Veteran Member
Kinda feel like they already napalmed that bridge when they settled on the VERA. I mean, don’t get me wrong, it’s the only practical choice if you want to recreate the kind of late-80s-early-90’s machine they were aiming for (IE, something that back in the day would have been stuffed with custom ASICs that would have cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to engineer and relied on likewise selling tens of thousands of units to recoup the costs of) in small quantities, but… yeah, you’re already there, might as well own it and at least take advantage of the cost savings across the board of going more modern with the manufacturing.
Clearly if you took this route you’d also nix those Yamaha chips. The video actually talks about an FPGA replacement for them, integrate that into VERA and make it all one board,