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EPROM Programmer Recommendations?

Tom_Servo

Tom_Servo

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Apr 1, 2022
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I have a fairly broad collection of older computers (1977-early 1990s) - Commodore PETs, TRS-80 Model 1s, Atari 800, Apple II, etc - and I'm looking for an EPROM programmer that would cover *most* of my computers from that timeframe. I realize there will always be exceptions, but can anyone recommend an EPROM programmer that works well for them? Mfr and model, please - thank you for your help!
 
@Tom_Servo welcome to the forum! You’ll definitely fit in well here, with a collection like that.

As far as EPROM programmers go, there’s lots of available choices, but they fall into only a few categories:

1) high-voltage capable programmers
- these can program 1702 EPROMs and others that require -48V to program
2) traditional parallel port programmers
- these can program almost any device that is present in their databases, but can be cumbersome to use with modern machines, as USB to parallel adapters can’t control these units. they need a real hardware parallel port, as they require real-time control.
- I have one of these, an Advin Pilot MVP
- they are extremely flexible, but don’t necessarily have all the most recent devices in their databases. Mine has new device updates through 2012.
3) modern hobbyist USB programmers
- there are many of these, often based on the Willem design, or the TL866
- I have one of these, a quality unit called the GQ 4x4 By MCUmall
- these can program almost any device that doesn’t need high voltage, or has other special requirements. They can also program modern microcontrollers and logic devices.
4) modern professional USB programmers
- a good example of these is the Xeltek SuperPro 610P
- these are significantly more expensive than hobbyist programmers but are also more capable, and more to the point, get continuous database updates so that they can always program new devices
- they also have company support to call on, if something goes wrong

For general vintage hobbyist use, I do like my GQ 4x4, if you don’t need high voltage. It’s fairly inexpensive, and fairly flexible. It’s also made by a Canadian company, so I can get some degree of support. It is a Chinese design knocked off from the original Willem design, but it’s capable enough.

You’ll get a _vast_ number of opinions on what is the ”best” programmer.

- Alex
 
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If you're on a bang-for-the-buck search, the parallel port programmers often can be had rather cheaply. You can use an old PC or even a thin client with parallel port to run these, so no big deal, practically speaking.
 
I have a TL866II for most things, and also built Martin Eberhard's ME2700 Orphan EPROM Programmer for the 24-pin devices like 2708, 2732, etc. Between these two I can program nearly anything.
 
Thanks to all for the guidance - it sounds like a GQ 4X and a TL866II should cover most applications.
 
1 willem v5 parallel, willem x3 total usb (just got it) and a digitech 824 ( old school 80s stand alone or serial, which I seem to have misplaced the dang orginal serial cable).

End of the day, a tool is only as good as its intended use. What exactly do you want to program, and we can steer you the right direction. If microcomputers are your jam, then a willem or a tl866 is prob your best bet as its cheap and does most anything you will encounter. GQ4 is niiiiice but I dont need to do arcade stuff, so never bought one yet (as I can already program just about everything else otherwise). TBH, I needed one that could do car ecus, why I just got the x3 willem as it does honda/ford ecus. Its so much nicer then the older 5.0 willem I was using.

Focus on what you need to use it for, and your budget. To get going, an older Willem its pretty straight forward. If you want something new, and with a case, then a TL866 is a great starter as well. If you want something that will do everything and them some, and money isnt so much a problem, a combo of an older 80s standalone ttl serial programmer, and a GQ4 is a great investment. Even without a serial cable the Digitech is super useful. Copies most older stuff without a pc, and the UV eraser is great. Quite a few different brands/models on the standalone side. Even not standalone, an EMP-20 is a great programmer for earlier stuff. Wish I kept mine! =)
 
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Chuck(G) said:
If you're on a bang-for-the-buck search, the parallel port programmers often can be had rather cheaply. You can use an old PC or even a thin client with parallel port to run these, so no big deal, practically speaking.
Click to expand...
Any recommendations on specific models to pick up? I love my TL866 but need to fill the gap of 21/25Vpp devices
 
I have the older TL866A which is no longer made or software updated. I can't speak for some of the other programmers, but any of the TL866's (A, C or II) are also useful for testing 7400 series TTL logic chips and some others too. Some of the others might also do this, but I don't know.
 
I’ve got a TL866 II Plus and it’s nice because USB and it works “easily” with modern computers and operating systems.

For older stuff, I’ve got a xeltek superpro 280u. It’s also USB, but it seems to require XP or old. Or maybe it just likes 32bit. I don’t recall, but I can use it in an XP VM that passes through USB without issues. It will read the older stuff like from an IBM PC or Commodore 64. It’s suppose to write them too (like the Motorola MCM68764) but it never works for me.

For older stuff I usually fall back to my BP Microsystems EP-1. It reads and writes everything I’ve tried that is supposed to be supported without issue, and the cool thing is that it’s serial and pretty much stand alone, so you can use it with just about anything with a serial port and xmodem file transfers. It’s got a DOS program too, which makes things a little easier, but it’s not required. I’ve used it in windows 10 with tera term. Not quite as easy as a TL866, especially if you only use it a couple of times a years and you have to use the help to remember the commands, but it’s probably my favorite, at least until I find something even cooler like a data I/O, but only if it’s cheap.
 
The real question is how old or new are the chips you need to use it with? I haven't used any new-age programmers, but I can say a few things about late '90s vintage programmers. The stuff I use is almost always pre-2000, and by 2010 the new stuff all used Flash with serial programming anyhow. For what it sounds like you're doing, they should be just as usable as a new one... if you have an old PC for them.

The main one I use is a Needham's EMP-31 with the complete set of SIMM sticks, and can it read almost any pre-2000 chip except HV/-5V stuff like 1702 and 2708, and old PALs. It uses USB, but! This is from 2000 or so before libusb etc was a thing, and it only had a 32-bit Windows driver. Needham's then got bought out and was buried shortly thereafter. The driver is only a few kilobytes, but all the various forms of x86 assembly language and Winders drivers are beyond my abilities, because they're a total mess. So I use it with a crappy old Dell laptop running XP-32. I also have a parallel port EMP-20, but stopped using it when I got the -31.

I've gotta agree with jafir, the EP-1 is brilliant for anything 2K-32K. It's just too bad it won't read 2708s, and I've got a mess of them to read right now. I burnt out a different 2708 (with already known and documented contents) last month trying to make a socket adapter. For some reason two of the data lines got stuck high, and it died while I was trying to figure out why. I thought I had more 2708s on some old Apple II cards, but everything else was 2716.

If you have access to an old DOS computer with a real parallel port, the EP-1132/EP-1140/CP-1128 from BP (with BPDOS_V371.ZIP) are great, I used one where I worked back in the late '90s. It can also auto-select device type if it detects the wrong chip ID, which I miss on the EMP-31.

I also have a Bytek S-15F somewhere, but there's a reason why the only references to it on the internet are people asking for a copy of the manual. I've disassembled its code, and the chip types are just a 2-digit hex index into some data tables. There is basically no way to know which chip type is which without the documentation. Not every old programmer is useful.
 
jafir said:
I’ve got a TL866 II Plus and it’s nice because USB and it works “easily” with modern computers and operating systems.

For older stuff, I’ve got a xeltek superpro 280u. It’s also USB, but it seems to require XP or old. Or maybe it just likes 32bit. I don’t recall, but I can use it in an XP VM that passes through USB without issues. It will read the older stuff like from an IBM PC or Commodore 64. It’s suppose to write them too (like the Motorola MCM68764) but it never works for me.

For older stuff I usually fall back to my BP Microsystems EP-1. It reads and writes everything I’ve tried that is supposed to be supported without issue, and the cool thing is that it’s serial and pretty much stand alone, so you can use it with just about anything with a serial port and xmodem file transfers. It’s got a DOS program too, which makes things a little easier, but it’s not required. I’ve used it in windows 10 with tera term. Not quite as easy as a TL866, especially if you only use it a couple of times a years and you have to use the help to remember the commands, but it’s probably my favorite, at least until I find something even cooler like a data I/O, but only if it’s cheap.
Click to expand...
I've got an EP-1 and am trying to figure out how to use the thing. Is there a way to write EEPROMs to this from Linux using a serial adapter? If not, is there a PC-AT compatible version of the software floating around?
 
Yes, it’s all serial based, basically it’s a little single board computer. I think it defaults to 9600 bps. You just need to be able to upload your BIN files to it with something like xmodem.

The software the comes with it is DOS based and does make things slightly easier, but it isn’t needed. It’s located here, file called ep1.zip:

Depending on hardware version, there might be a firmware update that you can write to an eprom and install. They are also in that same zip file.
 
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