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Gateway 2000 4DX2-66

The vast majority of PC IDE controllers do *not* supply any "cable power"

Pin 20 was n/c or a key pin for the majority of the lifespan of the standard. Adding +5 there was the exception not the rule
 
Well that explains it.

It was probably unused because I cannot think of an IDE device that wouldn't go over the power max of onboard 5v rail back in IDE heyday.
 
Huge thanks for the help FROM Seaken, the manual and CD was a huuuuuuge help! Video card is automagically seen and overrides the MB video. The Diamond is in and working. WFW 311 is installing and I will just move software over via CD. I ordered a Gotek for this machine and if there is a way to get the CF working on the Second Mast, I will just go that route to help shuttle software over. This second machine had a PCI Ethernet card, however, I have a ISA Ethernet card I am using to reclaim the PCI slot.

Regrets? Yeah, a few, I think if I had this to do over I would go with a tower so I could have more bays to do some extra things. Once its all loaded, we will see how it shakes out! Then I will go back to the original and now backup and get it up and running with lessons learned. Maybe I will move the MB to a tower if I can and create a second nice 486 Tower.

So if you want to go this route, here is some introspect, buy a tower, think about a Gotek since some much of this era deal in floppy's and most of it is in .img files. Think about HD Space, there are definite limits and if you want to have all that software potential, perhaps a SCSI controller might be nice to uncap the limits.

If not for the help. I might still be struggling!

E
 
I definitely agree about the tower, or at least a larger desktop case. My Gateway 2000 is very cramped. But The only thing I added was an ethernet card and a larger hard drive. But that case is now maxed out.

I use the ethernet card and/or Laplink to move files. I have it booting three Operating Systems including Win95, WFW 3.11 and OS/2 1.3EE. I don't use it for much. But if it was my only 486 machine I would definitely put it in a larger case and add a CF card and a Gotek.

Seaken
 
Hmmm, latest challenge is WFW311 hangs when scanning the computer, never gets out of that. Any thoughts? I plan to try the other machine when I have time later this week and see if it does same thing.
 
So it looks like the CD was for the first Gateway I received or there is an issue with the second I received. TBD, I will work to clone the drive in the first and see how it works on the second.

Foor now, I am going to take a break on the CF Card. More research on my part is needed. I would really like the CF card to be on a secondary IDE Controller. That way its easy to shuttle stuff over. That said though, I have the Diamond Viper in and running at 10x768 on an Old ViewSonic Flat Panel and a Linksys Ethernet ISA based up and running on WFW. I may be able to shuttle stuff that way and if so then forget the CF Card. I will just setup a file server for the retro machines which was already on my roadmap anyways with a Pi.

I think I may steal the CD Rom from the 2nd and put it in the first. The idea of the second was to have some backup parts to tuck away just in case.

So the one hooked up will get the best of the two machines including cases as it seems the cases are the same, however the riser cards appear to be a little different between the two. It was as tight as can be to get the vid card into the first and easy peasy on the second. The PCI slot was on the left side on the 2nd and on the right on the first.

One its all cleaned up I will wrap up this thread with some pics.

Thanks again for all the feedback! An awesome forum group here!

E
 
One question I have on this is why the drives on these old machines cant be read by new machines via an IDE to USB Adapter? Any tools that I can use to clone over older formatted drives to another drive easily without trying to go the laplink type route?
 
The adapters work with LBA drives only. Unfortunately these adapters were commodity items and not specialized tools. If you can find one that has manual CHS geometry setting it might work, but I never saw one myself.

Best option is to make a system with the latest gen mobo that has IDE and CHS support in BIOS, and use network imaging. I think Norton Ghost can image to windows shares, not sure. If you're into this stuff like old drives and media having a dedicated PC to image floppies and drives to network makes sense.
 
Late to the party but I also have a Gateway 2000 4DX2-66. These systems will not work with CF cards over 2GB usually. Although the BIOS may see a 4.1GB HD I have yet to get it to recognize it. I have had some success with using IBM Desktar drives 10-15GB. They usually have a jumper to limit it to 2GB and I have found these to work in older systems.

For me I have had the best success with the the cheap Amazon IDE to CF adapter that has a built-in slot cover. You install it in an unused slot and the CF card is out the back. (The slot bracket can also be removed and the adapter installed on a 3d printed bracket) Not ideal for these mini AT desktops but since I only use a Network card and a Soundcard in this particular machine, it works for me. I do have a Gateway 2000 P5-100 full tower and also use it in that. Same thing though, more card slots and more drive bays, but with a NIC, Video Card, and a Sound Card I don't really use the other slots.

For CF cards, I have only had success with Verbatim 2GB (Tried 4GB and it is not recognized) and Transcend 2GB or lower. 2GB is perfect for my use since DOS 6.22 primary partition is max 2GB.

Anyway, in case you need it here are links to the parts I use (not affiliated links)

CF Card adapter with PCI bracket (Amazon) (When you get the adapter clean the solder contacts on the board as they leave residue behind)

Transcend 2GB CF Card (Amazon) (You may have to click buying options as these frequently go out of stock)

Also we are trying to get together Gateway 2000 documentation and there is a thread for this here:


EverStaR said:
One question I have on this is why the drives on these old machines cant be read by new machines via an IDE to USB Adapter? Any tools that I can use to clone over older formatted drives to another drive easily without trying to go the laplink type route?
Click to expand...
As stated already, the USB adapters do not work for these old drives. I keep around an old Pentium III (800E with Voodoo5) and an old XP Lenovo Think Centre for these very occasions. They have onboard IDE that can work with these old regular IDE drives. I can usually make a backup from there. I also just install one of the CF card adapters as a slave drive to the system and use XCopy and MS Backup to backup the contents. I did this recently on my 4DX2-66 as it has the original 800MB drive with original install of DOS 6.22 and WFW 3.11.
 
Zippy Zapp said:
Late to the party but I also have a Gateway 2000 4DX2-66. These systems will not work with CF cards over 2GB usually.

For CF cards, I have only had success with Verbatim 2GB (Tried 4GB and it is not recognized) and Transcend 2GB or lower. 2GB is perfect for my use since DOS 6.22 primary partition is max 2GB.

Anyway, in case you need it here are links to the parts I use (not affiliated links)

CF Card adapter with PCI bracket (Amazon) (When you get the adapter clean the solder contacts on the board as they leave residue behind)

Click to expand...

Thanks, good to know, thanks for sharing, just so happen to have two of those Transcend Cards! :) The seller on my second sent a CF Card but it was only 512MB. It would be nice to get the machine to see these on the secondary IDE Controller off the MB. In theory one could add 2 on it and have 4TB of storage. Any experience getting the secondary IDE Controller to see these? I ordered the rear plate option as well. I will go read that other thread!
 
EverStaR said:
Any experience getting the secondary IDE Controller to see these? I ordered the rear plate option as well. I will go read that other thread!
Click to expand...
Yes. I removed the jumper on the adapter and that sets it to slave mode. I plugged it into the same cable as my WD hard drive set to master and was able to use it no problem. This is how I took a complete backup of my original hard drive. I could then insert that CF card into a reader on my Windows 10 machine and backup the contents to an image and or an archive. It worked perfectly. One thing you could try is making sure your hard drive is set to master and not single or default. Sometimes the default is listed as Single or Master and there is also a jumper setting specifically for Master. Put it in Master mode not Single or the default unless it truly is the same setting for Master. That tripped me up before on certain drives. Maxtor and WD in particular. With it set the correct way it should be no issue to put the CF adapter and CF card set to slave on the same chain.

Of course YMMV because Gateway did use different motherboard vendors for the same Gateway model sometimes, depending on the year and availability it seems. Does your motherboard have a CR2032 battery for the clock/BIOS settings? If it does then you have a different motherboard then me as mine has a battery header and that could make a difference if it is not the same exact chipset for IDE, etc.
 
No, both machines have the battery pack and they are new from the seller. There must be some kind of jumper or something on the MOBO that configures the Secondary IDE. If I hook up the cards to the Secondary it keeps the computer from posting. I am taking photos of the jumpers I can see so I can zoom in on a big screen and see if I can figure it out.
Beginning to wonder if this all would work better with a IDE Controller card that supports 4 drives, any thoughts and suggestions for cards if I take that approach?
 

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EverStaR said:
Anyone know where to get clearhdd.exe?
Click to expand...
Finicky little bugger, I got it up on the primary IDE device now. It required drive power for the device to work. But most of these devices say don't apply power. Go figure. 2GB HD Card now. Now I can back up! Thanks to all that helped!
 
EverStaR said:
Finicky little bugger, I got it up on the primary IDE device now. It required drive power for the device to work. But most of these devices say don't apply power. Go figure. 2GB HD Card now. Now I can back up! Thanks to all that helped!
Click to expand...
Oh yes for sure the adapter needs power connected to it. I think it is pretty rare that you find a built-in MOBO IDE that supports Pin 2 as power. The only adapters I have seen work without a power plug is SCSI2SD adapters like BlueSCSI or ZULUSCSI. Most SCSI implementations have term power so it can be run off the cable.

Sorry, I didn't catch that you were not powering it.

As to your other question as to which other card you can use for getting 4 IDE. I have had success in the past using Promise Ultra adapters. Ultra33, Ultra 66, Ultra 100 are the names of them. They have a BIOS built in and can use larger drives. My P5-100 has an Ultra33 installed and it works great with most HDs. They are PCI cards and found very cheap on eBay ($5-$15). You can also use many SATA PCI cards too. Using one of these Ultra cards you would still use the internal IDE for your CD Drive. The only thing you have to do is change the BIOS setting so that all the drives are selected as Disabled or Not Installed if disabled is not available. The Cards BIOS takes over the roll of configuring all drives.
 
I think I am settled now, I ordered a 3D print 5/14 bay that will host a Gotek Drive and the CF Card so they will both be front accessible. I need a little longer IDE Cable too so ordered that. So it will have Real CD, Real Floppy, Gotek, CF HD (Original HD will remain in the case without power) Diamond Viper 64, Netgear 10/100 Network Card, and a really kick ass sound card. It will boot off CF. I make make it multiboot at some point as well .

I would like a good ISA sound card that has wave table board capability. There are a few wave table boards I would like to try out. Looks like towards the end of that era SB was adding ram slots to host its own wave table. Don't want that, I want ability to add real wave table daughterboards.

The front panel is retrobrighting right now. Should be able to put it all back together in a few weeks and call it done! Then I will work on the spare to just get it on CF card HD and leave it pretty much as is. Probably clean it up as well. Maybe add a Gotek CF for it as well and sell.

This is quite a fun and time consuming project to relearn the past and put together a nice retro machine!
 
EverStaR said:
And the sound card will be? An http://pcmidi.eu/orpheus2.html with a https://www.serdashop.com/DreamBlaster-X16GS, and another surprise yet to be acquired! This may end up being a very special retro oldie!
Click to expand...
Looks like you opted for a stereo sound system. I could build a fairly good ISA PC for the price of that Orpheus card. Personally, and on the retro side, I never found audio to be a major consideration as long as decent sound came from either speaker. I do have Edifier speakers on my W7 and W11 gamers and it's pretty good for these old ears.













P
 
I understand, however, sound is a BIG deal for me! It's one of the big deals of that era, no? Yeah, I could have gone several different directions, but this was the one in my mind worth investing in. MIDI was a huge deal during that era if my humble memory serves me correctly! When you start looking at all the high end sound options and cost, you get to a point where the extra options a new modern ISA sound solution looks more appealing!
 
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