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Gmail and Catch-22

Chuck(G)

Chuck(G)

25k Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2007
Messages
44,534
Location
Pacific Northwest, USA
A couple of years ago, I created a gmail account that I use rarely, linked to a Google voice number.
I decided to check the account settings; entered the email address and password and got the "Verify that this is really you".
The method is to send a text or voice to a recovery number. I gave up the phone with the recovery number a year ago.
The Gmail community support must have 80 or so people who say the same. You can't log into the account until you get a number from your recovery phone, so you can't change your recovery phone number. I can't even delete the account. So there it is, a zombie account forwarding email...

What idiot thinks these things up? FWIW, I've forwarded all of the incoming mail to another email address, so I'm not losing any mail. Just marveling at the boneheaded stupidity of the bright kids at Google.
 
The Microsoft equivalent has similar issues. A local social club lost its "outlook.com" address because the steward didn't want to give Microsoft their Mobile number.
 
That's why I won't ever get a google account - they want too much private information. I have a Microsoft Outlook account, and they've never wanted my phone number, and the mailbox still works.
 
Robbbert said:
That's why I won't ever get a google account - they want too much private information. I have a Microsoft Outlook account, and they've never wanted my phone number, and the mailbox still works.
Click to expand...
It will, until you forget your password and get locked out, or some one hacks it and locks you out.
 
My ISP has been blocking access to the web email interface unless I provide an additional mobile phone number. Apparently, it was not enough that the ISP has the phone number that they have been billing me for along with the internet service. I am amused and happy that the tradition email clients are still working and looking for a new ISP because when they are that desperate for money to need a second phone number to market, they are not long for the world.
 
The phone number for verification is there because it helps to control the number of throwaway accounts being generated for spam. There's obviously workarounds for that now but at the very least I pair the number to something I know I can't like, like a house or primary cell phone number.

It's get messy when you have to also specify a backup email address. That I won't deny.
 
I have a backup email address for the account, but the stupid interface still insists on using a disconnected phone number to verify that I'm me. As I mentioned, I can receive email because I set up forwarding; just can't get into the account associated with the email, even though I have the correct password. Since there's also a google voice account associated with it you'd expect that I could receive the verification code through the email forwarding. Try as I might, I still wind up at the "You can't get there from here" page. FWIW, I get no "try another method" line in the dialog.

Something like "you have a key to the lockbox already but we're not going allow you to use it until your dead uncle phones us and tells us it's okay".
 
I like that their final recommendation is just "create a new account" :cautious:
 
mbbrutman said:
Have you tried this? https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/7299973

If you are at home, you know the password, and you can answer your security questions, then it seems as though it should work for you.
Click to expand...
Of course I did. But the security phone is dead, as I said. So I get this message:

"Couldn't sign you in"
"You didn’t provide enough info for Google to be sure this account is really yours. Google asks for this info to keep your account secure. To recover your account, try again and answer each question shown."

No questions are asked. So where now?
 
Yea, google has gone overboard with this crap. I have a couple of old youtube accounts that became google accounts, and the last time I tried to log in, Gurgle demanded that I give them a phone number so they could "text" me a verification code. Tried feeding it the number for my landline anyway and it just sat there like a lump on a log.

Google sells cell phones.
 
You can't even create a new google account today without giving your phone number and getting verified through it.
No, you can't use other means of verification and you can't skip the phone verification, even at the cost of not being able to recover the account.
It's phone number or no account created.
 
Sometimes free is quite expensive.

In some years, a digital ID will be mandatory, and it will be used to access any and all cloud hosted services.
 
I had a similar thing happen to me in May. But worse considering I never entered a phone number into the account, and would have been fatal if circumstances were different. Basically I was in the process of moving. I had gotten my computer set up at the new place and went to log in with the same computer and the same browser cookie with the same ISP and the same modem and the same password I've had for years at a different location meaning a NEW IP ADDRESS. It prompted me for prove it's really you by answering a security question because I never had given them my phone number! What they don't bother telling you is that their log in using a security question is disabled. They stopped allowing that for years now. So it just throws up a generic error message about not being able to log in, and to read some support page that didn't explain this situation. So I had to make a wild guess because there was nothing to go off of.

So knowing it was just working, I rush over to the other house, hook up the same computer and the same modem and the same browser cookie and same password and now the original IP ADDRESS, and voila, didn't even need to enter the password. Since the only method you can use realistically is a phone number I entered a phone number into the account. Good thing I held off on disabling the internet there, and now it is done.

Then I go back to the new house, reset everything up, they ask to send a code to the phone number now, and then enter the code, and boom, now the IP ADDRESS is somehow OK.

Basically your phone number is your password, and the IP ADDRESS is the cookie. (ok ok a the browser cookie may be a session id too, but not really that important!) Why do they even require a traditional password anymore? I guess it's only so they can send you messages "somebody used your password! was it you?"

So basically here is an account, with security questions that probably were set back in the gmail BETA that was grandfathered in but left for broken because I'd been connected through the same ISP for long enough before they ever required a phone number text message code.

Nevermind trying to contact anyone at google for any problem... I know there are human beings there, I've worked with people there since they were my customer. But the average person gets nothing. Terrible service. Good thing I'd started moving away just before May. gmail is the last thing, and the last straw was disabling a traditional IMAP login. So I am already forwarding and emptied out my mailbox too.
 
So basically, you're out of luck if you ISP uses NAT? I've never changed the address of the system that I'm using, but of course, Google doesn't see that because the system's on an intranet with it's own NAT.
As I said, I'm still receiving email from the account because I set up a forwarding account. So it will remain a zombie google account until Elon buys Google, I guess.
I do have another gmail account and use POP3 to access that--gmail now uses two-factor ID, so you have to remember that.
 
Chuck(G) said:
So basically, you're out of luck if you ISP uses NAT? I've never changed the address of the system that I'm using, but of course, Google doesn't see that because the system's on an intranet with it's own NAT.
As I said, I'm still receiving email from the account because I set up a forwarding account. So it will remain a zombie google account until Elon buys Google, I guess.
I do have another gmail account and use POP3 to access that--gmail now uses two-factor ID, so you have to remember that.
Click to expand...

I swap between Spain and the UK and never seem to have any problem.
 
It's all tremendously arbitrary. I have two different accounts in different browsers on the same system; went cross-country to visit family, and one got flagged as ZOMG IDENTITY THEFT and the other was A-okay. And yes, Google support is just the worst. It's nigh-impossible to get through to a real live person if you're a paying Google Business user; mere mortals might as well not even bother.
 
You can log in from multiple locations if you authenticate their way from each site. I don't think NAT is any problem at all. It's probably public IP address with session cookie that was preauthorized.

I haven't used POP with gmail in a long time. I am not aware that it still works. I tried plugging in their python whatever they use now into my mail client, and I got a message from google saying they denied access because the application wasn't on their list of approved email clients. Why they think security means the email client tells google who they are and they check it against a list, I do not see the point... it's like browser agents all over again.
 
the3dfxdude said:
You can log in from multiple locations if you authenticate their way from each site. I don't think NAT is any problem at all. It's probably public IP address with session cookie that was preauthorized.
Click to expand...

The only "Is this really you" authentication offered is a voice to text to a phone number, which is long gone to phone number heaven. There is no other way--no questions, nothing. You'd think that the authentication code would be sent to associated google voice number, but Noooo...

As far as POP3, gmail still supports it--port 995 with OAuth2 authentication.
 
Chuck(G) said:
The only "Is this really you" authentication offered is a voice to text to a phone number, which is long gone to phone number heaven. There is no other way--no questions, nothing. You'd think that the authentication code would be sent to associated google voice number, but Noooo...

As far as POP3, gmail still supports it--port 995 with OAuth2 authentication.
Click to expand...
Yes, I agree that is happening. Once you register a phone number, it doesn't matter what other methods they say were possible. They only seem to prefer the phone method. I can't seem to stop it them from preferring that.

Yeah their custom OAuth2 system rejects my mail client saying it is not approved. I do not have high hopes of google in email if I were to spend the time to figure out what they really want. I'm using something else now where I'm unlikely to be locked out. We're not the only ones this happened to. I heard from someone else recently that they got locked out and could not get in even though they have the right password because they did not have their old phone number.
 
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