• Please review our updated Terms and Rules here

How can I use a 5.25 floppy on a modern computer? I need urgent help.

kamiledi15 said:
I don't know how is it possible, but after reconnecting this 5,25" drive - for the umpteenth time - it suddenly started to work. I'm talking about the "new" drive, which I've got recently, because the previous one still doesn't work and is probably broken - because it says that all my floppies are broken (it tells me to format it and then it's impossible to proceed with formatting) and they work perfectly in the second drive. But until today there was identical problem with this "newer" drive, so maybe the problem is similiar. But you probably remember that I had to keep my finger on the head on this previous drive, so something is wrong for sure. And I don't have to do this with the new drive.
I have no explanation for it, because I connected it MANY times and 3,5 drive was ALWAYS working and 5,25 started to work an hour ago. I also connected this 5,25 drive few times to the second computer with Win98 and it also always worked. So maybe the previous drive is not broken, but maybe there is the same problem with connection? Who knows.

There is still a problem with switching between two drives - 3,5" and 5,25". When both drives are connected AFTER THE TWIST - only 5,25" drive works. So to make 3,5" work I have to unplug the cable from 5,25". I don't even have to change anything in BIOS - even if 5,25" has set 3,5" capacity, it still works, just the icon is different. When any of the drive is connected BEFORE THE TWIST - none of them works. So my question is - is it possible to switch between 3,5" and 5,25" drive without unplugging one of them? I know that my BIOS probably can't use BOTH drives at once, but I would like to switch between them in BIOS.
Click to expand...

Check both of your drives, specifically your latest 5.25 and see if it has a 'jumper' which would indicate DS0 (Drive A), or DS1 (Drive B), etc. Note that '0' actually indicates the 1st drive and '1' would indicated the 2nd drive (that's just the way it is). The position at the end of the cable is DS0 or Drive A and the other connector would relate to DS1 or Drive B​. If one or the other drives (3.5 or 5.25) are working, but not together, then it's probably a cabling problem or you have made a error when selecting which drive is "A" or "B" in BIOS setup.
.
 
I tried all combinations of connecting both drives at once - and using only one of them with the second turned off - with no success. I don't think that I would be able to modify the cable. Isn't there any program which would switch the drives? And probably connecting one drive before the twist won't change anything? Because my cable has 4 plugs - 3,5" and 5,25" before the twist and 3,5+5,25 after the twist.
And yes, my BIOS has only one floppy drive entry. It also has some "floppy 3 mode support", which I can enable or disable, but I don't know what it is.
or you have made a error when selecting which drive is "A" or "B" in BIOS setup
Click to expand...
In my BIOS I can only set drive A. As I said, I probably can't use both drives at once, but I would like to switch between them without unplugging any of them.
I can't see the DS jumper, maybe you mean DX?
 
kamiledi15 said:
I tried all combinations of connecting both drives at once - and using only one of them with the second turned off - with no success. I don't think that I would be able to modify the cable. Isn't there any program which would switch the drives?
Click to expand...
How can it? The BIOS and controller only know about one drive; you can change what type of drive that is in the BIOS setup, but it is always the same connection, the one after the twist. It's like having an outlet controlled by a switch: you can plug any kind of lamp in and turn it on or off and you can plug two lamps in at the same time, but they will both light together and there's no way to just turn one on. Your computer only has one 'switch' to turn the drive after the twist on or off.

And probably connecting one drive before the twist won't change anything? Because my cable has 4 plugs - 3,5" and 5,25" before the twist and 3,5+5,25 after the twist.
Click to expand...
The cable you have is meant for a computer whose BIOS and controller can use two separate drives (with connectors for both 3.5" and 5.25" versions of each drive); on your system the drive and motor select signals in the connectors before the twist are effectively not connected to anything at the motherboard end.
And yes, my BIOS has only one floppy drive entry. It also has some "floppy 3 mode support", which I can enable or disable, but I don't know what it is.
Click to expand...
That is for a special 3.5" drive that supports a 1.2MB capacity in addition to 720kB and 1.44MB.
In my BIOS I can only set drive A. As I said, I probably can't use both drives at once, but I would like to switch between them without unplugging any of them.
Click to expand...
Just like the lamp example, you would have to add a switch that selects which one lights when you turn on the outlet.
I can't see the DS jumper, maybe you mean DX?
Click to expand...
Yes, although they're usually labelled DS0-3 or DS1-4 as Agent Orange says, on your NEC drive they're labelled DX0-3 (and should be set to 1).
 
If your CMOS only has one floppy entry then you can only have one floppy. What computer is this you are working on? There are certain computers that have that type of setup.
 
kamiledi15 said:
I tried all combinations of connecting both drives at once - and using only one of them with the second turned off - with no success. I don't think that I would be able to modify the cable. Isn't there any program which would switch the drives? And probably connecting one drive before the twist won't change anything? Because my cable has 4 plugs - 3,5" and 5,25" before the twist and 3,5+5,25 after the twist.
And yes, my BIOS has only one floppy drive entry. It also has some "floppy 3 mode support", which I can enable or disable, but I don't know what it is.

In my BIOS I can only set drive A. As I said, I probably can't use both drives at once, but I would like to switch between them without unplugging any of them.
I can't see the DS jumper, maybe you mean DX?
Click to expand...

The bottom line is that if the BIOS only supports one floppy then its an "either/or" situation. I'm in to this thread a little late so, I don't know what type of mobo that you have. If you have an ISA or VLB slot available, you may be able to find a SIIG or comparable floppy/IDE controller card, which contains its own BIOS, thereby allowing you disable the on-board BIOS settings and will let you setup and run multiple floppies. I've never had any success in finding a floppy controller card for PCI - it seems PCI HD controllers are abundant but the PCI floppy controller is scarce bird, if it even existed at all (seems USB may have negated the need).
 
On my motherboard I can see this:
"GIGABYTE GA-M61PME-S2". And in the second, a little older computer: "GIGABYTE GA-945PL-DS3".
DX jumper is set to 1.
ISA or VLB slot
Click to expand...
I can't see it, but maybe I have to take a closer look.
I noticed something weird. As I told you before, the problem with both 5,25" drives was that it told me to format the floppy and then it couldn't format it. Then I was able to run these floppies without formatting and they are in working condition. Today I was testing my floppies and suddenly the problem returned. After restarting the computer the drive was working again for about an hour and then it happened again. So it works for some time and then I have to restart the computer to make it work again. What causes this?
 
Capture.jpg

Your mobo BIOS only supports ONE floppy a time. The option is up to you; i.e., 360/1.2, 720/1.44, or 2.88. You can't use your floppies without the proper format for its specific type . Are you absolutely positive that you have the correct media for your floppy? In other words, if you happen to have 360 KB DD floppy, you can't use 1.2 HD floppies in that drive. Please check your 5.25" floppy drive for name/part number and post it here. Also, you may want to find a different floppy drive cable and eliminate that as a source of the problem. If and when you get your mobo up and running with the 5.25 floppy, you may want to find a USB 3.5" floppy and you problems will be solved (hopefully). It appears that you have either intermittent cabling or a flaky power supply. You may need to swap some parts around to find the cause.
 
My Xp box only supports one floppy. I needed two, a 5.25 and 3.5 one. I got around the problem by getting a USB 3.5 inch external drive.

Tez
 
I'm not sure what do you mean now. My floppies are working, but the drive stops working after about an hour. Well it works, but it tells me that all my floppies are broken. Then I have to restart the computer and it works again - and the "broken" floppies magically work again. I told you before that the 5,25" drive works even if I set in BIOS 3,5" capacity - maybe this is the reason why it stops working after an hour. I will check tomorrow if it will happen again with the correct capacity. Here you have a screenshot, when there's a correct capacity:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/20/rgg3.jpg/?sa=0
It's in polish, but you can see the size of the floppy.
Please check your 5.25" floppy drive for name/part number and post it here.
Click to expand...
I posted it few times, but ok - it's NEC FD1157C. Now I have two identical 5,25" drives - one working and one probably broken.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/96/ptil.jpg/
The upper one is the broken one, and the one which is lower works.
About the 3,5" drive - I don't know what model is it, maybe you will find it here:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/542/tx0v.jpg/
To be honest - I have also an external 3,5" drive for USB connection. But you know, it's not the same :) If I can't use a simple switch between two internal drives, then I will be forced to use this external drive. I've bought it for IMac.
 
I was hoping that there is a simple program that would switch the drives immediately, or that I could just change something in BIOS. But it's probably impossible, as you said already. On another forum they suggest me to make a mechanical "switcher" on the supply cable, but it seems too complicated for me. Well, if that's all I can do, then I can only say big Thank You for all your effort. The 5,25" drive finally works and this is the most important thing.
 
I used a homemade 'rig' to deal with this problem many years ago that consisted of this. I ran a ribbon cable from the floppy controller outside of the case. I also ran two ribbon cables from the two floppies outside of the case. I had a double sided card edge connector like the one below in the ribbon that came from the controller.

P4200140.jpg

I could then alternately plug one floppy or the other (360K or 1.2M one inside the case and one outside cause there was no bay for it) into the other side of the double sided card edge connector so whichever floppy I chose to enable in the CMOS setup could be used. It worked great for many years. I also used the same type of edge card connector to enable a full height hard drive as a second drive when the case was a baby AT style and wouldn't accomodate the full height drive physically.

There's all kinds of possibilities if you're willing to use some internal drives externally and wire them accordingly.
 
It would require cutting two wires between the twist and the first connector after the twist, the same two wires between the last two connectors, and connecting 6 of those 8 wires to a DPDT switch. Worth a try, especially if you can find another cable to play with.
 
I came up with some crazy idea. I've put an external 3,5" USB drive INTO the computer cover, I pulled the USB cable through the interior of my computer, I broke one metal element on the backside of the cover and connected the cable to one of USB plugs. And it works perfectly :D Now I can use both drives at once without reconnecting anything.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/823/ehp5.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/849/uc4v.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/823/hv3q.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/109/ul6r.jpg/
This drive is a little too thin and there is a little hole at the top, but maybe I'll find a piece of black plastic to hide it. On the left and right it fits perfectly and it doesn't move even one milimeter.
Thank you for all your help.
 
vwestlife said:
I recently tried in vain to get a 5.25" floppy drive to work in two different Compaq Pentium III Deskpros. Both have support for 5.25" drives in their BIOS. The first one originally came with a straight (no twist) cable with a single connector for its factory-equipped 3.5" floppy drive. But upon replacing that with a standard floppy cable to connect the 5.25" drive, I couldn't get it to work, either plugged in after the twist or before the twist in the cable -- either way, it just kept saying "Diskette controller failure" in BIOS. I tried multiple different 5.25" drives, all with the same result.

On the second Compaq, the factory-equipped floppy cable did have a twist before the 3.5" A: drive, and I did get it to the point where both the BIOS and Windows XP would recognize the 5.25" drive I had installed, but I couldn't get it to read any disks -- it refused to boot from a floppy even with the 5.25" A: drive set as first in the boot order, and in Windows XP any attempt to access the 5.25" drive just resulted in a rather generic "I/O Error".

So after all that hassle, I just gave up and pulled out my old Gateway 486DX-33, which has factory-installed 3.5" and 5.25" floppy drives, both working perfectly fine.
Click to expand...
You commented 10 years ago but I'll try to question you. I had (hopefully have) a working mid 80's 360kb floppy drive but then i tried to put in a 20 year old Dell. It stopped working after that sorta. Spins, LED on and seeks to read as it once did but it never reads a good boot disk like it used to. The heads move as they should as well. I wonder if really old XT 8 bit drives simply can't handle having that twist in the ATA cable? One side of those cables are all bonded together you know?
 
mrwebber35 said:
You commented 10 years ago but I'll try to question you. I had (hopefully have) a working mid 80's 360kb floppy drive but then i tried to put in a 20 year old Dell. It stopped working after that sorta. Spins, LED on and seeks to read as it once did but it never reads a good boot disk like it used to. The heads move as they should as well. I wonder if really old XT 8 bit drives simply can't handle having that twist in the ATA cable? One side of those cables are all bonded together you know?
Click to expand...
What do you mean by "bonded." I don't follow.
 
I'm an electrician goin on 27 years now. That is an electrical term meaning electrically connected to ground and tied all together. See the picture of the drive in question. one side of ATA bonded.pngion.
 
Ah ok, I'm with you now! Yes all ODD pins bonded to ground. All the floppy drive interfaces I've dealt with going back to the Shugart 8" drives comply with this standard, although I'm sure there's some members of the forum that could point out exceptions.

Maybe this article will help clear up the twist. Wires 10 to 16 are twisted so that the "ODD pins" remain bonded to ground:

www.nostalgianerd.com

Why are Floppy Cables Twisted? - Nostalgia Nerd

It’s the age old question. A question that has been boggling mankind for decades. Why do floppy ribbon cables contain...
www.nostalgianerd.com www.nostalgianerd.com
 
Thanks for the heads up. After reading this I am still not feeling very good about it. I have an Amstrad PC1512 that used a Tandon TM65 2L drive. This is a very old system that came out at the same time as MSDOS 1.0 did. Everyone was designing computers differently. Amstrad made theirs with a MCGA monitor that was similar to CGA but different in some ways. That is a different discussion.
Here is the problem that I think killed my XT drive:

Tandon 525 drive doesn’t like the ATA twist
Here is likely the reason:

1st off it's a XT 360kb ATA 8 bit drive that is slower than the regular 1.2 newer 16 bit drives. The Amstrad can not accept the faster 5.25 drives.

The wiring might be different.
7 wires are involved in the twist. The centre wire is pin 13 which doesn't change but the 3 wires on either side switch positions.
Pin layout:
Pin 10 DRIVE SELECT 0 Pin 11 GROUND
Pin 12 DRIVE SELECT 1 Pin 13 GROUND
Pin 14 DRIVE SELECT 2 Pin 15 GROUND
Pin 16 MOTOR ON
Wires that switch:
Pin 10 becomes Pin 16 so the DRIVE SELECT 0 becomes MOTOR ON.
Pin 12 becomes Pin 14 so the DRIVE SELECT 1 becomes DRIVE SELECT
Pins 11 and 15 switch but both are GROUNDS so no actual change.
Here's the problem that I am seeing: MOTOR ON and DRIVE SELECT 0 have different voltages. The older floppy XT drives didn’t have a shut down Cct to protect from over voltage. MOTOR on was rated at +5 volts and DRIVE SELECT 0 was rated at 0.4 volts.

Can anyone confirm what I am saying? Clearly, in all the years of people getting these old drives for fun there isn’t any info on this. I think I just burned up my main chip on the drive doing this.
 

Attachments

  • dangerous twist.png
    dangerous twist.png
    30.3 KB · Views: 5
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top