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I had three Osborne 1's... Now I only have 2... Ebay cancelled mid-shipping and then upped the shipping price. Where else can I buy old CPM computers?

VERAULT said:
They listed the computer they stole from me and are using my photos!! : https://www.ebay.com/itm/166100674843

Edit: found this: https://boards.cgccomics.com/topic/499748-ever-wonder-where-your-ebay-items-even-comics-go-if-they-are-seized-lost-at-the-border- -allow-me-to-introduce-you-to-ebay-user-8ten1944/

and this: https://www.facebook.com/8TENINDUSTRIES/

They make a business out of pilfering your stuff.
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Well it's not a very good business model if they paid you $1975 for the computer and are now reselling it for $1192...
 
Plasma said:
Well it's not a very good business model if they paid you $1975 for the computer and are now reselling it for $1192...
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eBay paid the $1975 (minus fees), not the asset recovery company who's now reselling it. They bid on bulk lots of items that GSP rejects, and I'm sure their "discounted" price still includes a healthy profit margin for them.
 
Yeah Im with vwestlife, I feel they are getting this stuff greatly reduced. But agreed, its a terrible business model.
 
vwestlife said:
eBay paid the $1975 (minus fees), not the asset recovery company who's now reselling it. They bid on bulk lots of items that GSP rejects, and I'm sure their "discounted" price still includes a healthy profit margin for them.
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eBay is certainly not losing money on the sale. I'm sure Pitney Bowes has to reimburse them the full amount. I'm not convinced that GSP is nefariously rejecting items to resell them for profit, as some in the thread have suggested. It looks like they are breaking even at best, often selling at significant discounts. The losses are made up with inflated GSP shipping costs.
 
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It was never suggested that this was just a way for them to steal our stuff. Most of their process would be legitimately as described. But the circumstances in which it occurs suggests that they do consider other factors and act in their best interests at times, even when those best interests are morally outside of societal standards.

And by "Business Model" I was meaning there's room for their process to be abused by working out how to make them pay more for stuff that's worth less if you could objectivally trigger their taking of stuff, and tweak the sale price so that even with the losses to ebay, it was profitable - and would involve collusion between the seller and the buyer - something that is actually encouraged by Ebay in many cases, so it would not be in violation of Ebay's policies.

But for those of us who want what we go, who frequently note it's the "bargains" we get that go missing, it does point to possible bias in the process by which they select which parcels to send and which to take.

And it is never good to lose something you want.
 
Do you have any evidence that the "bargains" are somehow being sold for profit? Based on the 8TEN listings that doesn't seem to be the case. I think some items are simply rejected because either it would cost too much to ship, or the risk of damage is too high (and GSP has to pay all insurance claims). I agree it doesn't always make sense what passes and what doesn't, but I don't know the details of the system.

The idea that Pitney Bowes has some scheme involving experts doing research on vintage computers to seize and resell them for profit is a bit ridiculous when you consider the volume of items that GSP handles. 8TEN has over 18,000 items listed, and those are just the ones that didn't ship. Ain't nobody got time for that.
 
I hate to be a conspiracy theorist, but I think all big corporations are out to bleed us dry at everyone elses' expense... Regardless it doesnt explain how all the collectible comic books were seized and resold by them. How would a comic book be difficult to mail?
 
Hi Plasma,.

It's not much of a sample size, but I got a really cheap deal on a Osborne 1 in fantastic collectors condition, fully working and tested with full history, software, receipts, original sales documentation, etc. and they claimed it couldn't be shipped according to their rules. Most of the computers I buy are rough, but this one clearly had exceptional value.

So I did the same thing twice more with less attractive (both faulty, not working) listing details and they got sent and shipped just fine... Both should arrive next week.

The difference? Two new ones are less likely to recover their resale value than the original listing.

Is it proof? No.

But is it evidence supporting the hypothesis? Absolutely.

It may not be the same as someone cherry picking what they want like a supreme overlord, but the description of the item seems to be a key element here, and there's anecdotal evidence that the closer an item is to an actually valuable item, the more likely it is to "go missing" at GSP... The computer I lost to GSP before - the seller had proof it made it to GSP, and said they didn't care - clearly they had already been told they weren't losing their money and said I'd get a refund. They also sent me the tracking showing it made it to GSP... It was an auction that went off at the wrong time, and I paid about 5-10% of what those items ( several collectors computers ) would have gone for at any other time so of course I had no problem with the shipping cost, but it all just disappearred once it hit the GSP.

Yes, I think they absolutely examine whether it's in their interests to ship an item. They already charge way in excess of what US POST charge to ship an item, and at the same time, gain the advantages of economy of scale and repackaging. I do think they examine each and every parcel and work out whether it's in their interests to send it, or to keep it. Sure, there's no pattern to this on every thing they clearly sell, so I think things simply go wrong and this is their solution, but they have access to the data for each sale and would likely have a database of previous sales, and they should be able to calculate their risk instantly and that would quickly tell them whether or not they should ship an item.

There's clearly more to the story - and it's quite likely not everything 8ten sells is from GSP failed shipments and there would be a lot of genuinely unshippable items too - but there's a pattern showing for the exceptions that we know they can ship. When it's commercially in their interests to ship, it ships. When it starts to swing the other way, and looks like the item might be resold based on bids and other historical indicators, it gets stopped with a vague excuse which you have already agreed to in advance.

And there's still a possibility that someone is cherry picking what they want, but there's not enough data to know if that's likely yet.

Regardless, it has been proven that they can, do and will ship the items they claim not to be able to ship. And there's a strong indication the description of the item is a key differentiator between shipping and not shipping.

The alternative explanation is that they just randomly don't ship items for vague undefined reasons, and then have to recover their costs by reselling the items. They know their business costs. It's not like shipping logistics is something that isn't extremely predictable. Believing that a company like Pitney Bowes has no idea what it will cost to ship something until they see it and try to repack it is even crazier - given that the exact dimensions, weight, packing conditions etc, are already absolute and already known and usually over-estimated by the seller. Sure there's the possibility they automatically assume they can't make the space savings they want, but they already charge way more than US POST to ship large items.... All they would need to do if they couldn't commercially ship those items profitably is to bulk-drop them off at the post office and they would still make a profit.

Given what does and doesn't ship, occam's razor definitely falls on the side of corporate greed, not corporate incompetence.
 
I also like the fact that this douchebag reseller company has better feedback than me and I have only gotten 1 negative feedback in over 22 years.. Thats just super.
 
cj7hawk said:
Hi Plasma,.

It's not much of a sample size, but I got a really cheap deal on a Osborne 1 in fantastic collectors condition, fully working and tested with full history, software, receipts, original sales documentation, etc. and they claimed it couldn't be shipped according to their rules. Most of the computers I buy are rough, but this one clearly had exceptional value.

So I did the same thing twice more with less attractive (both faulty, not working) listing details and they got sent and shipped just fine... Both should arrive next week.

The difference? Two new ones are less likely to recover their resale value than the original listing.

Is it proof? No.

But is it evidence supporting the hypothesis? Absolutely.

It may not be the same as someone cherry picking what they want like a supreme overlord, but the description of the item seems to be a key element here, and there's anecdotal evidence that the closer an item is to an actually valuable item, the more likely it is to "go missing" at GSP... The computer I lost to GSP before - the seller had proof it made it to GSP, and said they didn't care - clearly they had already been told they weren't losing their money and said I'd get a refund. They also sent me the tracking showing it made it to GSP... It was an auction that went off at the wrong time, and I paid about 5-10% of what those items ( several collectors computers ) would have gone for at any other time so of course I had no problem with the shipping cost, but it all just disappearred once it hit the GSP.

Yes, I think they absolutely examine whether it's in their interests to ship an item. They already charge way in excess of what US POST charge to ship an item, and at the same time, gain the advantages of economy of scale and repackaging. I do think they examine each and every parcel and work out whether it's in their interests to send it, or to keep it. Sure, there's no pattern to this on every thing they clearly sell, so I think things simply go wrong and this is their solution, but they have access to the data for each sale and would likely have a database of previous sales, and they should be able to calculate their risk instantly and that would quickly tell them whether or not they should ship an item.

There's clearly more to the story - and it's quite likely not everything 8ten sells is from GSP failed shipments and there would be a lot of genuinely unshippable items too - but there's a pattern showing for the exceptions that we know they can ship. When it's commercially in their interests to ship, it ships. When it starts to swing the other way, and looks like the item might be resold based on bids and other historical indicators, it gets stopped with a vague excuse which you have already agreed to in advance.

And there's still a possibility that someone is cherry picking what they want, but there's not enough data to know if that's likely yet.

Regardless, it has been proven that they can, do and will ship the items they claim not to be able to ship. And there's a strong indication the description of the item is a key differentiator between shipping and not shipping.

The alternative explanation is that they just randomly don't ship items for vague undefined reasons, and then have to recover their costs by reselling the items. They know their business costs. It's not like shipping logistics is something that isn't extremely predictable. Believing that a company like Pitney Bowes has no idea what it will cost to ship something until they see it and try to repack it is even crazier - given that the exact dimensions, weight, packing conditions etc, are already absolute and already known and usually over-estimated by the seller. Sure there's the possibility they automatically assume they can't make the space savings they want, but they already charge way more than US POST to ship large items.... All they would need to do if they couldn't commercially ship those items profitably is to bulk-drop them off at the post office and they would still make a profit.

Given what does and doesn't ship, occam's razor definitely falls on the side of corporate greed, not corporate incompetence.
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What I would like to see is actual evidence that some GSP rejected item was sold/auctioned for higher than the original sale amount. Not speculation. A vintage computer would pretty much have to be resold on ebay for any profit, since that is the only place to get top dollar. Was your first Osborne 1 relisted? GSP is definitely not making any profit on Verault's Apple II.

As far as comics and other smaller items, remember that GSP also rejects shipments based on import restrictions and tariffs. What I suspect is happening is that the integration between ebay/GSP is not great and GSP doesn't evaluate the item and destination until it arrives at the hub. "Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence" and all that.

I want to make it clear that I am not defending GSP; it's lousy for anyone buying rare or collectible items. Shipping is slow and expensive and you may not get the rare thing you just bought. It just appears they make their profits with high shipping fees, not by strategically seizing items and reselling them when the original purchase was a "good deal."
 
Plasma said:
I want to make it clear that I am not defending GSP; it's lousy for anyone buying rare or collectible items. Shipping is slow and expensive and you may not get the rare thing you just bought. It just appears they make their profits with high shipping fees, not by strategically seizing items and reselling them when the original purchase was a "good deal."
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That's OK - I never assumed that, and we're learning more about the situation as we proceed. Asking the right questions is ALWAYS a good thing to do in the forum and sometimes that means someone needs to play devil's advocate from time to time. Otherwise we all go the way of the far left and anyone who doesn't agree with us becomes the devil! A much worse situation.

No one in this thread has yet suggested that they were doing this to get a higher sale price on the resale of the item in this thread so far, although it is an auction site and if they don't always go to a buy it now, it's certainly possible that they might, so that much is still in the unknown elements of this operation they run, and so far the main route for profit seems to be, as you noted, gouging on shipping fees while also saving money through how they ship.

I looked for the seller so I could find out what happened with my original loss, and couldn't find it. If not for Verault's post, I would never have tracked them down, and of note, I can't see any of the listings I've been looking for when I log into Ebay US. They are obscured from my searches - ( Also this forum has a strange habit of posting while I am still editing so I'll finish this post quickly ). - which suggests Ebay is aware that what they are doing would be viewed very poorly by their customers... Ebay works just normally for me, but if not for the direct link from Verault, I could not find the item by searching for it by keyword which make me wonder if they deliberately filter some results from some customers to hide things.

It's not suggesting either that its motivated by malice either - though again, it's not impossible - but it just looks like they have found a way to make a profit in ways that harm their normal customers and through despicable methods and means rather than honestly just sticking to the expected terms and conditions of sale - through clauses that hide their true intention. Usually what is referred to in a contract as "Acting in bad faith". The evidence of that is rather overwhelming, as it's printed in their T&Cs, but the deeper detail of their activity is hidden.
 
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It's on my list to test... But the problem is more than my ebay account is registered to Australia - so the moment I log in, it knows exactly who I am and where I am from.

I'll see what I can find with a VPN though without logging in.
 
Tested with a VPN - It's not showing up when I search for;

Apple II Professionally Restored w Color Monitor Huge Lot​


But then I have no idea what country the VPN is taking me to. Other computer searches show up normally. Even ones that are not available to other countries.

Then I tried a web-proxy in the US and it showed up right away. It does appear that Ebay is geographically filtering it to make sure it's not seen outside of the US.

Thanks
David
 
It depends on the VPN... I don't pay for any VPN services, so my choices are limited. By the web proxy method should be sufficient and did produce the intended result and did confirm Ebay US appears to block results to that seller based on IP Geographic location.
 
Not a dumb question at all -

No - they won't sell it via GSP - It's strictly US only - And it appears they even geoblock non-US IPs from US Ebay from even seeing the search results for the auctions, though if you know the URL, or search via a US proxy/VPN, you can find the items.
 
So why is eBay preventing people non US from seeing US items? Seems a bit nefarious to me.
 
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