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I just bricked a lovely Mostek STD-Bus / MDX boards Development System

dvanaria

Experienced Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
110
Location
Denver
I bought this wonderful system off Craigslist a few weeks ago from someone who worked at Mostek in the early 80s as a product manager. He was given this machine which he listed as a "Mostek Development System".

It is a prototype that was made by Mostek around 1984 (or 1983) as they were trying to get a foothold in the microcomputer (complete) systems market I believe.

It uses the STD-Bus, a variant of the S-100 bus, and has 5 Mostek MDX cards installed on a backplane: CPU3 (Z80), RAM (128 K), FLP2 (floppy controller), SASI (hard disk controller), and an SIO card (serial input/output). This is driven by a 250 w power supply. There is a 10 MB hard disk (Miniscribe III) and a 5.25" DD, DS floppy drive installed in the custom made case (the owner said the case alone must have cost Mostek about $500 to get custom made back in the 80s - its super durable and well made). CP/M 3.0 was installed on the hard disk, and the system booted off the hard disk reliably.

The floppy controller was configured to drive an 8" drive, which was also included in the sale. This was external to the main unit and connected to one of the ports in the back. Lots of 8" floppies were included, including one entitled "CP/M 3.0 SYSGEN".

Also included was an ADDS terminal and keyboard. What an awesome system, I was so psyched to get it.

So... now the awful part.

I don't know much about CP/M to begin with, but even less about version 3.0. For some unknown (and ridiculously stupid) reason, I was messing around with the .COM files in the main root directory just to see what the programs did, thinking they couldn't do any actual damage without some prompt like "are you sure you want to do this?"

So long story short, I ran a program called GENCPM, and quickly ran through a series of prompts about floppy disk parameters and some other (probably critical) settings. The program exited with an error, saying it couldn't write to some file I believe.

The next time I booted the machine (and ever since), the CP/M Loader starts up and then hangs with the error message "can't read file CPM3.SYS"

So I've learned a LOT about CP/M 3 in the days since I made this ridiculous and horrendous mistake. It turns out I ran the utility that generates a new CPM3.SYS file, which is the customized version of CP/M for a specific hardware setup, and mine ended on an error. What a mess. This is truly a low point in my retro computing career.

Any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

IMG_1163.JPG
 
Yes, it does seem that CPM3.SYS was destroyed by your running GENCPM. I assume that is on the harddisk? If you have a bootable floppy, you may be able to restore it. Typically, that vintage of harddisk system has some method to recover from a crashed drive, which is similar in result to what you experienced. Look for floppies labeled "recovery" or such. Even if it is CP/M 2.2, it may be enough to re-run GENCPM (choose the correct answers this time) or possibly locate another copy of CPM3.SYS. Also, look for a file GENCPM.DAT which might contain the correct values to use - unless your run overwrote it.
 
Thank you for the feedback, honestly. I most likely destroyed the CPM3.SYS
file (which is basically the operating system), but I have some hope that
all the other files and system structure is still maintained on the hard
disk, especially since the boot loader (CPMLDR) is at least starting up.

So yes, CPM3.SYS and CPMLDR.COM are both on the hard disk. I don't have any
5.25" or 8" floppies with recovery media, except the 8" drive labeled
"CP/M 3 GENSYS", which may have a back up copy of CPM3.SYS. Or maybe there
is a backup right on the hard disk, renamed to something else.

If I could somehow boot the machine with a minimal operating system, I could
then find out for sure what is on there. Thank you jdreesen for pointing
me to the Colex 820, it does in fact look very close to this system! Does it
matter that my system is using MDX boards by Mostek? It seems like a slightly
different technology than the standard STD-Z80-BUS cards, but maybe I'm
wrong. I will look for system disks (CP/M) for the Colex, that may be my
saving grace if I can get it on an MFM formatted 5.25" floppy and get the
floppy drive set up on the Mostek computer's floppy controller.

Thanks also Doug for the helpful suggestions of how to hopefully rebuild
things once I can get in there.

What a terrible, careless mistake I've made. Lesson learned. I seem to always
run into trouble working on CP/M machines because they were a bit before my
time. I grew up with DOS machines and give me any PC-compatible hardware and
I can throw a system together without fail.

Here's more detail on the machine I have:

250 w power supply
STD-Z80-Bus passive backplane (?) with 10 slots
Miniscribe III hard disk drive (10 MB)
Mitsubishi M4854 5.25" floppy drive (double density, double sided?)
Installed Mostek MDX cards:
MDX-SIO (connects to J3 and J5 ports in the back)
MDX-CPU3 (from Mostek 1983, a Z80 CPU on-board (MK3880N-4))
MDX-RAM (128 K ram installed in two rows of 64 K)
MDX-FLP2 (floppy controller)
MDX-SASI-1 (hard disk controller)
Qume Qumetrak 242 external 8" floppy drive

The way it was set up when I got it:

The hard disk booted CP/M 3 and became the A: and B: drives
(each 5 mb)

The 5.25" floppy was drive E: but was unresponsive because the
MDX-FLP2 controller can only be set to support 8" or 5.25"
drives, but not both at the same time.

The 8" floppy was drive F: and I could read disks from it and
I successfully formatted a blank disk with it.
 
I have a Colex 850 CP/M 3 boot disk; has all the files on it, including CPM3.SYS and GENCPM, etc. It's 5.25' 96 tpi DS. If you'd like to give it a try, I can post an .IMD file of it.
 
I have a Colex 850 CP/M 3 boot disk; has all the files on it, including CPM3.SYS and GENCPM, etc. It's 5.25' 96 tpi DS. If you'd like to give it a try, I can post an .IMD file of it.

That would be awesome, thanks Chuck. I think you've helped me out on several other projects in the past.

If I had the .IMD file, I would then use ImageDisk on a DOS machine (I have a 386 with a 360K floppy drive) to write the image, correct? Is there any particular version of ImageDisk you recommend, I think the latest is 1.18

Thanks very much.
 
Last edited:
I would say that before doing too much more, you might want to image the hard drive. Some setups when writing to the disk, write new data on an empty part of the disk while leaving the original data intact. Others just immediately write over the old data. The more you write to the hard drive, the less likely you are to find any of the original data. Imaging the drive is maybe the most important thing you want to do when you think there might be something there. CP/M uses a relatively simple directory structure.
Dwight
 
Here is a Directory Listing for Chuck's Image:
Code:
cpmls -f clx2 -D COLEX850.RAW
     Name    Bytes   Recs  Attr     update             create
------------ ------ ------ ---- -----------------  -----------------
CCP     .COM     4K     25 R  
COPYSYS .COM     2K     15 R  
COPYSYS .PRN    32K    249    
CPM3    .SYS    20K    154 R  
DATE    .COM     4K     22 R  
DEVICE  .COM     8K     58 R  
DIR     .COM    16K    114 R  
DUMP    .COM     2K      8 R  
ED      .COM    10K     73 R  
ERASE   .COM     4K     29 R  
FORMAT  .COM     4K     19 R  
GENCOM  .COM    16K    116 R  
GET     .COM     8K     51 R  
HELP    .COM     8K     56 R  
HELP    .HLP    62K    488 R  
HEXCOM  .COM     2K      9 R  
INITDIR .COM    32K    250 R  
INSTALL .SUB     2K      1 R  
LIB     .COM     8K     56 R  
LINK    .COM    16K    123 R  
MAC     .COM    12K     92 R  
PARK    .COM     2K     16 R  
PATCH   .COM     4K     19 R  
PHASE2  .SUB     2K      1 R  
PHASE3  .SUB     2K      1 R  
PHASE4  .SUB     2K      1 R  
PHASE5  .SUB     2K      1 R  
PHASE6  .SUB     2K      1 R  
PHASE7  .SUB     2K      2 R  
PIP     .COM    10K     68 R  
PUT     .COM     8K     55 R  
PUTCPM3 .COM     8K     64 R  
RENAME  .COM     4K     23 R  
RMAC    .COM    14K    106 R  
SAVE    .COM     2K     14 R  
SET     .COM    12K     81 R  
SETDEF  .COM     4K     32 R  
SHOW    .COM    10K     66 R  
SID     .COM     8K     62 R  
SUBMIT  .COM     6K     42 R  
TYPE    .COM     4K     24 R  
WCPM3   .SYS    20K    154 R  
WFORMAT .COM    12K     85 R  
WRTSYS  .COM     2K     10    
XREF    .COM    16K    121 R  
XYZ     .SYS    16K    122    

User 6:

     Name    Bytes   Recs  Attr     update             create
------------ ------ ------ ---- -----------------  -----------------
ASMBIOS .SUB     2K      2    
AUTO    .SUB     2K      1    
BAUDRATE.MAC     2K      8 R  
BOOT    .ASM     4K     29    
BOOT5   .ASM     6K     35    
BOOTPROM.MAC    16K    114    
BOOTW   .ASM     6K     47    
CBIOS   .ASM    20K    151    
CHARIO  .ASM    16K    123    
COPYRIGH.ASM     2K     12    
COPYRIGH.MAC     2K     12    
CPM3    .LIB     4K     32    
CREF    .SUB     2K      1    
DRVTBL  .ASM     2K      4    
EQUATES .LIB     2K      2    
FDRVTBL .ASM     2K      4    
FLOPEQU .MAC     2K     10    
FLOPPY  .ASM    32K    243    
GENCPM  .DAT     4K     19    
HDISK   .ASM    14K    106    
LDRBIOS .ASM    20K    157    
LINK820 .SUB     2K      1    
LINK850 .SUB     2K      1    
MODEBAUD.LIB     2K      8    
MOVE    .ASM     4K     20    
PORTS   .LIB     2K      7    
SASIEQU .MAC     2K     11    
SCB     .ASM     4K     19    
Z80     .LIB     6K     47    

User 12:

     Name    Bytes   Recs  Attr     update             create
------------ ------ ------ ---- -----------------  -----------------
BOOT    .ASM     4K     29    
BOOT5   .ASM     6K     35    
BOOTW   .ASM     6K     47    
CBIOS   .ASM    20K    151    
CHARIO  .ASM    16K    123    
COPYRIGH.ASM     2K     12    
DRVTBL  .ASM     2K      4    
EQUATES .LIB     2K      2    
FDRVTBL .ASM     2K      4    
FLOPPY  .ASM    32K    243    
HDISK   .ASM    14K    106    
LDRBIOS .ASM    20K    157    
MODEBAUD.LIB     2K      8    
MOVE    .ASM     4K     20    
PORTS   .LIB     2K      7    
SCB     .ASM     4K     19    
Z80     .LIB     6K     47    
   92 Files occupying    396K,       0K Free.

Thanks.

Larry
 
Looking at Larry's directory listing, you might be able to restore this thing to a 360K drive--just limit the cylinder count to 40 on the IMD menu. I haven't examined the sample I have in detail--it could be that the client was using 720K 5.25" drives and using only the first 40 cylinders.

Worth a try, at any rate.
 
Chuck,
I'll have a look with 22DISK, to see if my Definition for cpmtools might be in error.
That a good possibility, since IMDA & IMDU say it's 160 Tracks.

Code:
IMageDisk Utility 1.18 / Mar 07 2012
IMD 1.18: 26/11/2019 18:34:25

Colex 850 Boot disk.  96tpi DSDD 5.25"

Written Dec 26, 2019

CPG

Assuming 1:1 for Binary output
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48/0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
48/1  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  11 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
49/0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
49/1  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  11 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
50/0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
50/1  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  11 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
51/0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
51/1  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  11 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
52/0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10 
      D   D   D   D   D   DE5 D   D   D   DE5
52/1  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  11 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
53/0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
53/1  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  11 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
54/0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
54/1  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  11 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
55/0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   DE5 D   D  
55/1  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  11 
      D   D   D   DE5 D   D   D   D   D   DE5
56/0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10 
      D   D   DE5 D   DE5 D   D   DE5 DE5 D  
56/1  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  11 
      DE5 DE5 D   DE5 D   DE5 D   D   D   DE5
57/0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
57/1  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  11 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
58/0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   DE5
58/1  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  11 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
59/0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
59/1  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  11 
      DE5 D   DE5 D   D   D   DE5 D   D   D  
60/0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
60/1  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  11 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
61/0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10 
      D   DE5 DE5 D   D   DE5 D   D   DE5 DE5
61/1  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  11 
      DE5 D   D   DE5 D   D   D   D   D   DE5
62/0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
62/1  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  11 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
63/0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10 
      D   DE5 D   D   D   DE5 D   D   D   DE5
63/1  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  11 
      DE5 D   DE5 DE5 D   D   DE5 D   DE5 D  
64/0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10 
      D   DE5 DE5 D   DE5 DE5 D   DE5 DE5 DE5
64/1  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  11 
      DE5 DE5 D   DE5 D   DE5 D   D   D   DE5
65/0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10 
      D   D   DE5 D   DE5 D   D   D   DE5 D  
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      DE5 DE5 D   D   D   DE5 DE5 D   D   D  
66/0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
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      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
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      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
68/0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10 
      D   DE5 D   D   D   DE5 D   D   D   DE5
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      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
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      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
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70/0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
70/1  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  11 
      D   D   DE5 D   D   D   DE5 D   D   D  
71/0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
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      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
72/0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
72/1  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  11 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
73/0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
73/1  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  11 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
74/0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10 
      D   D   DE5 D   DE5 D   D   D   DE5 D  
74/1  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  11 
      DE5 DE5 D   D   D   DE5 D   D   D   D  
75/0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10 
      D   DE5 DE5 D   DE5 DE5 D   D   DE5 DE5
75/1  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  11 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
76/0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
76/1  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  11 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   DE5 D   D   D  
77/0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
77/1  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  11 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
78/0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   DE5
78/1  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  11 
      D   D   DE5 D   D   D   DE5 D   DE5 D  
79/0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10 
      D   D   DE5 D   D   DE5 D   D   DE5 DE5
79/1  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  11 
      D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D   D  
160 tracks(80/80), 1600 sectors (250 Compressed)

One way or another I'll get to the files. More a bit later.

Larry
 
Going down the rabbit hole a bit further, I've tried writing some 360 K floppies using ImageDisk on an old 486 PC that has a good 360 K floppy drive, but now I'm stuck wondering if my Mostek FDD and FDC are even setup or working correctly, because I'm getting read errors no matter what disk I put in the drive.

I'll include some photos here. First I'll show you the alternate settings I used to try to write your Colex850 image (basically just setting it to single-step and to go from 300 kbs to 250 kbs). It wrote as much as it could to the disk successfully, and I was hoping the Mostek would at least boot what was there.

The next image shows the read errors (though not all hope is lost, when I disconnect the floppy drive, the hard drive boots to its "missing cpm3.sys" error message, and when I connect the floppy drive, it does appear to be trying to boot the floppy disk, and I get the read error shown).

IMG_1227.jpg

IMG_1229.jpg

IMG_1228.jpg

Next are some photos of the bizarre ribbon cable that is attached from the FDC (a 50 pin male port) to the FDD (a 17-pin edge connector). It was definitely hacked together - is this a standard cable? I should probably buy a manufactured one, as this could certainly be part of the problem. The original owner of the machine, who received it directly from Mostek while he worked there as a developer, said he never actually used the 5.25" drive and always used the external 8" floppy drive.


IMG_1219.jpg

IMG_1223.jpg

IMG_1224.jpg

I wonder if I could hook up the 8" floppy drive to my PC and use ImageDisk to write a bootable 8" floppy? I at least know that drive works and the controller can read from it successfully.
 
View attachment 57579

View attachment 57580

View attachment 57581

I wonder if I could hook up the 8" floppy drive to my PC and use ImageDisk to write a bootable 8" floppy? I at least know that drive works and the controller can read from it successfully.

Your 5.25" FD ribbon cable is reminiscent of the ones to IBM PS/2 3.5" ones. Anyway, I'd guess that is definitely a source of your problem, as the 50-pin FDC-out isn't mapped in any way I recognise for the PS/2 3.5" edge-connector drives, which use a 40-way card-edge, to include power supply. Your card-edge connector is 2 x 17-pin (i.e. 34-pin), so std. floppy drive, but FDC 29 to FD 1 is non-standard in the extreme. It just *might* be for a PS/2 Model 50 3.5" edge-connector drive, where FD 1 is "2nd drive installed", However FDC 29 is supposed to be a Ground line, so the FDC 50-pin connector's pin-out to signal needs more research.
 
I was sure I had a wiring Diagram of the 50 Conductor to the 34 Conductor layout.
But I can't find it for the moment.

Looking at the 50 Pin layout here I'm thinking that
the actual conductor that goes from Pin 30 is connected to Pin 2 of the 34 Pin Connector. That would make sense
because Pin 2 on the 34 Pin Connector is /REDWC.

I'm thinking the actual wiring shown in the Photo is:
Code:
50 Pin connector Pin 30 to 34 Pin Connector Pin 2 (/REDWC from FDC to Floppy)
50 Pin Connector Pin 32 is cut  (Head Select prevented from FDC)
50 Pin connector Pin 34 is cut  (Disk Changed/Disk Ready prevented to FDC)

A quick test with an OHM Meter would prove that the conductor layout is (Right to Left) Even Odd
as in 2 1, 4 3, 6 5,.......

Larry
 
Last edited:
I was sure I had a wiring Diagram of the 50 Conductor to the 34 Conductor layout.
But I can't find it for the moment.

Looking at the 50 Pin layout here I'm thinking that
the actual conductor that goes from Pin 30 is connected to Pin 2 of the 34 Pin Connector. That would make sense
because Pin 2 on the 34 Pin Connector is /REDWC.

I'm thinking the actual wiring shown in the Photo is:
Code:
50 Pin connector Pin 30 to 34 Pin Connector Pin 2
50 Pin Connector Pin 32 is cut
50 Pin connector Pin 34 is cut

Ahh, OK, my bad. I've corrected your first link above, it had "http://https://" prefixes, only the 2nd is needed.

Pin 32 being cut doesn't seem right, if 8" drives are DS1 and DS2, then 5.25" drives would be DS3 and DS4, I guess, or vice versa.
Pin 34 being cut doesn't seem right either (Step Direction IN/OUT)

A quick test with an OHM Meter would prove that the conductor layout is (Right to Left) Even Odd
as in 2 1, 4 3, 6 5,.......

Larry

Yet again, Ahhh. That seems weird to me. Ribbon filaments are numbered 1-34, or however many, from the (later common) red stripe end (Pin 1).

The cable makeup seems just wrong. Maybe the card-edge 34-way connector was crimped the wrong way around, or the 50-pin FDC end?
 
Darron,
tried writing some 360 K floppies using ImageDisk on an old 486 PC that has a good 360 K floppy drive
The problem with this is the Track for a 360 is too wide, and by single stepping you are constantly overwriting part
of the tracks as you write. If you have a 5.25" 1.2 M Floppy drive give it a try using it. The 1.2 M floppy drive has a
thinner track width.

Do you have a Schematic of the Floppy Disk Controller's wiring?

Thanks.

Larry
 
Darron, the MDX-FLP Controller Document is on Bitsavers:

The wiring should be:

Code:
	MDX-FLP
2	
4	
6	
8	
10	
12	
14	Side Select
16	Side Select
18	Head Load
20	8” Index
22	Drive Ready
24	5” Index
26	Drive Select 0
28	Drive Select 1
30	Drive Select 2
32	Drive Select 3
34	Direction
36	Step
38	Write Data
40	Write Gate
42	Track 0
44	Write Protect
46	Read Data
48	
50


Larry
 
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