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M8189 bootstrap error LED's D1 and D4 on

MattisLind

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Another potential issue is that not all quad width QBUS backplanes are "suitable". The M8189 (11/23+) does not appear to be QBUS/QBUS, but QBUS/CD, and should probably be in the first slot on a compatible backplane.

http://www.bitsavers.org/www.computer.museum.uq.edu.au/pdf/EK-1T23B-OP-001 PDP11-23-PLUS System Manual.pdf

Page 64: "The KDF 11-8 microprocessor (M8189) is a quad-height module that must occupy the first slot in the H9276 backplane."

The H9276 backplane looks to be QBUS/CD only: https://gunkies.org/wiki/CD_interconnect

Even: were there actually any QBUS/QBUS quad width PDP-11/VAX CPUs?
The M8189 can work in both Q/Q and Q/CD. There are jumpers that handle the grants. I used it in a BA11-M with a H9270 backplane.
 

gslick

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Another potential issue is that not all quad width QBUS backplanes are "suitable". The M8189 (11/23+) does not appear to be QBUS/QBUS, but QBUS/CD, and should probably be in the first slot on a compatible backplane.

Even: were there actually any QBUS/QBUS quad width PDP-11/VAX CPUs?

The quad-wide M8189 KDF11-B PDP-11/23+ CPU is compatible with either Q/Q backplane slots, or Q/CD backplane slots. It doesn't have any CD card edge connector fingers except for power and ground.

The quad-wide M8190 KDJ11-B PDP-11/73 CPU is only compatible with Q/CD backplane slots. It has CD card edge connector fingers for the PMI bus.
 

cmao

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The quad-wide M8189 KDF11-B PDP-11/23+ CPU is compatible with either Q/Q backplane slots, or Q/CD backplane slots. It doesn't have any CD card edge connector fingers except for power and ground.

The quad-wide M8190 KDJ11-B PDP-11/73 CPU is only compatible with Q/CD backplane slots. It has CD card edge connector fingers for the PMI bus.
I jumper M8189 to Mode 1 and wire a RS232 adapter per https://www.tindie.com/products/glitchwrks/dlvdb25-dlv11-j-rs-232-adapter-cable/#specs. Unfortunately, there is no message sent to my PC terminal emulator after power-up so I think I need to have a correct backplane.
 

cmao

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The M8189 can work in both Q/Q and Q/CD. There are jumpers that handle the grants. I used it in a BA11-M with a H9270 backplane.
I link to www you provided. From those info, it looks M8189 can work with a QBUS. Correct ?
 

PG31

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The DDV11-B is an expansion backplane with E&F slots for custom hardware. I'm not a ware of a chassis that has this with run and halt switches etc. Hopefully the OP will provide further detail
 

cmao

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The DDV11-B is an expansion backplane with E&F slots for custom hardware. I'm not a ware of a chassis that has this with run and halt switches etc. Hopefully the OP will provide further detail
There is a 2-row 10-pin connector on the backplane. I have created a front panel control with 4 switches per https://avitech.com.au/?page_id=1657. These switches are PWR, RUN, LTC and BOOT. It seems working but I am not able to get any messages sent out from SLU #1 port on M8189 to my PC terminal emulator.
 

tradde

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How do you set the baud rate for your CPU? I know nothing of this CPU board.
 

cmao

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How do you set the baud rate for your CPU? I know nothing of this CPU board.
You can set baud rate for SLU 1 and SLU 2 by correctly setting S2 (8-position switch). Upper 4-position setting baud rate for SLU1 and lower 4-position for SLU 2. The max rate is 19200 bit/s. Per manual, SLU 1 is used for console port and SLU 2 is used for printer port.
 

gslick

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I closely look at the EPROM's and found it read "157E4-" on Lo-byte EPROM and "23-158E4-00" on HI-byte EPROM. It seems they are correct combination. However, as suggested by gslick: "The later KDF11-BG / KDF11-BJ EPROM versions are a lot friendlier to use", I am still looking for later version of EPROM for M8189 to upgrade.

Here you can find binaries for 23-380E4.bin and 23-381E4.bin:

http://www.dunnington.info/public/DECROMs/

Code:
23-380E4    23-381E4    M8189-BG          8K        KDF11-BG (uPDP11/23) boot         0
                                                    See also 339/340,183/184,
                                                             238/239,453/454
                                                    KDF11-B Maintenance
                                                    Manual calls this -BH

23-381E4    23-380E4    M8189-BG          8K        KDF11-BG (uPDP11/23) boot         1
                                                    See also 339/340, 183/184
                                                             238/239,453/454
                                                    KDF11-B Maintenance
                                                    Manual calls this -BH

Here you can find binaries for 23-453E4.bin and 23-454E4.bin (scroll down and click on the images of the EPROM labels):

http://web.archive.org/web/20160321035043/http://avitech.com.au/pdp-11-03/bdv11-rom-upgrade.html

Code:
23-453E4    23-454E4    8189-BJ           8K        KDF11-BJ (uPDP11/23) boot         0
                                                    Last release
                                                    See also 339/340,238/239,
                                                             158/159,183/184,
                                                             380/381.

23-454E4    23-453E4    8189-BJ           8K        KDF11-BJ (uPDP11/23) boot         1
                                                    Last release
                                                    See also 339/340,238/239,
                                                             158/159,183/184,
                                                             380/381.

These are 8KB binaries so you need 24-pin 8KB EPROMs, which are not common. It appears that your existing EPROMs are MCM68766C EPROMs, which are 8KB EPROMs. So you could reuse those if you can erase them, and you have an EPROM programmer which is capable of programming them. Not all EPROM programmers support programming MCM68766C EPROMs.
 

gslick

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How do you set the baud rate for your CPU? I know nothing of this CPU board.

The M8189 KDF11-B PDP-11/23+ has two 8-position DIP switch packs. On switch pack S2, switches S2-1 through S2-4 set the console SLU baud rate, and pack S2 switches S2-5 through S2-8 set the second SLU baud rate.

In addition, jumpers J42 and J43 need to be connected together, and jumpers J45 and J46 need to be connected together to use the internal baud rate generators. When the DEC M8189 SLU bulkhead panel is used (not too common to find those) the bulkhead panel contains external baud generators and jumpers J42 and J41 need to be connected together, and jumpers J45 and J44 need to be connected together to use the external baud rate generators. The external baud rate clocks are injected through Pin-1 of the 10-pin SLU connectors J1 and J2 from the bulkhead panel.
 

cmao

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Here you can find binaries for 23-380E4.bin and 23-381E4.bin:

http://www.dunnington.info/public/DECROMs/

Code:
23-380E4    23-381E4    M8189-BG          8K        KDF11-BG (uPDP11/23) boot         0
                                                    See also 339/340,183/184,
                                                             238/239,453/454
                                                    KDF11-B Maintenance
                                                    Manual calls this -BH

23-381E4    23-380E4    M8189-BG          8K        KDF11-BG (uPDP11/23) boot         1
                                                    See also 339/340, 183/184
                                                             238/239,453/454
                                                    KDF11-B Maintenance
                                                    Manual calls this -BH

Here you can find binaries for 23-453E4.bin and 23-454E4.bin (scroll down and click on the images of the EPROM labels):

http://web.archive.org/web/20160321035043/http://avitech.com.au/pdp-11-03/bdv11-rom-upgrade.html

Code:
23-453E4    23-454E4    8189-BJ           8K        KDF11-BJ (uPDP11/23) boot         0
                                                    Last release
                                                    See also 339/340,238/239,
                                                             158/159,183/184,
                                                             380/381.

23-454E4    23-453E4    8189-BJ           8K        KDF11-BJ (uPDP11/23) boot         1
                                                    Last release
                                                    See also 339/340,238/239,
                                                             158/159,183/184,
                                                             380/381.

These are 8KB binaries so you need 24-pin 8KB EPROMs, which are not common. It appears that your existing EPROMs are MCM68766C EPROMs, which are 8KB EPROMs. So you could reuse those if you can erase them, and you have an EPROM programmer which is capable of programming them. Not all EPROM programmers support programming MCM68766C EPROMs.
Thank you so much. I swear I would upgrade my M8189 asap.
 

MattisLind

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I have never seen a DDV11 backplane myself, but my guess is that this is a DDV11. It is a DEC back plane. It says LSI-bus which is the early name of the qbus. It looks like slots E/F has some custom wiring.
I am pretty sure that your M8189 should work in slots A-D.

Since the LEDs are not at all on state the CPU is doing something. The LEDs are controlled by the code in the ROMs. What happens is probably that it drops to the micro-ODT due to some problem.

I think that your first priority is to get the serial console working so you can see the ”@” micro-ODT prompt.

Check baud rate. Check driver chips. Check signal with oscilloscope and/or meter. Is the cable correct?

The EPROMs are the hard to find. MC68766. 8kx8 in 24 pin package. Older ROM works but is not as user friendly and has fewer boot options. At this point we just want it to show any life sign on the console port.
 
Last edited:

cmao

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I have never seen a DDV11 backplane myself, but my guess is that this is a DDV11. It is a DEC back plane. It says LSI-bus which is the early name of the qbus. It looks like slots E/F has some custom wiring.
I am pretty sure that your M8189 should work in slots A-D.

Since the LEDs are not at all on state the CPU is doing something. The LEDs are controlled by the code in the ROMs. What happens is probably that it drops to the micro-ODT due to some problem.

I think that your first priority is to get the serial console working so you can see the ”@” micro-ODT prompt.

Check baud rate. Check driver chips. Check signal with oscilloscope and/or meter. Is the cable correct?

The EPROMs are the hard to find. MC68766. 8kx8 in 24 pin package. Older ROM works but is not as user friendly and has fewer boot options. At this point we just want it to show any life sign on the console port.
Thanks for the comments. I had made a simple adapter for 2764. I will test it when I receive the PCB from JLCPCB. Hopefully it works for M8189.

1641149967874.png1641149987153.png
 

cmao

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Dec 30, 2021
Messages
22
Thank you for all your help and comments. Finally, I am able to upgrade M8189 with newer version of ROM with a simple adapter and two M2764A's (200ns). The signal of RS232 can also be seen in oscilloscope. Thank you all again.

1642374863511.png 1642374889781.png
 
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