NanTan Early 1990's laptops Guide (386/486/Pentium)

[3lectr1c]

How does the hinge mounting system in the FMA3300 work exactly? Is the issue that plastic standoffs that screws went into broke, or did the metal hinge itself snap? You're making it sound like they just glued the hinge direct to the plastic.
If you're doing anything to do with metal bonding, normal superglue absolutely won't up under stress.

 

[JamieDoesStuff]

The metal snapped. Here's some pics. The piece in the 3rd picture overlaps the hinge mount (2nd pic), and the 1st shows how it cracked. The exact same thing happened on the second hinge. I'm thinking of reinforcing the entire assembly with epoxy to the plastic, although that would make me unable to remove the hinge ever again without a lot of destruction.

 

[3lectr1c]

That's a weird design. Still can't quite tell what's going on. I'd try finding a European equivalent to JB Weld, which is designed to work really well on metal parts, and doesn't do half-bad on ABS plastic either. I'd try searching "JB Weld alternatives" or something like that in your local language to see if there's any online discussion on similar stuff available in Serbia. Or you could get some shipped from a foreign market, but that would probably be pretty expensive. There's gotta be something similar in Serbia that could work.

 

[DeltaDon]

You can embed fiberglass fibers in epoxy to reinforce the bond. I've even used scrap window screen material to help support broken plastic standoffs on LCD lid plastics to prevent them breaking free again. Doesn't look nice but is all covered up when the front bezel is put back in place.

 

[creepingnet]

The issue is that I need to bond metal with plastic, and I'm not sure that superglue would even be able to withhold itself with the stress it's being put through. It seems as if someone tried to pry the display open more than it was designed, and the 4-5mm wide and thick metal that was holding it to the screen housing gave in.

For transferring files to and fro old machines, I swear by the Zip drive. I found one for 5 euros at the flea market, and ordered disks for 1.5 euros each, and I now have 5 disks. Very cheap, the only downside is that you have to keep track of the health of the drive from time to time (Trouble in Paradise, Gibson Research Corp., freeware), but I figure if it hasn't failed yet, then it probably won't for a long time. Also you need a working floppy drive for loading the DOS drivers, obviously.

Well, I did use BS And SUperglue for bonding in the brass screw anchors into the plastic on my NECs, as well as my FMAK9200. However, with screens, I have 2 tricks I use to loosen the hinges....

On my NEC Versas I usually use a cheap Daiso store chisel to loosen the clip on the end of the friction pack that holds the hinge together to loosen it, and then....maybe, rub in a little grease to help it move better.

On my FMAK9200, I found out that NanTan used bolts and threadlocker on the ends of the bolts. So I loosened them just enough to make the screen move easily, but just tight enough to hold it in place without it moving on it's own. Worked great. Still using it like that almost a year and a half later.

As for me....

Finally got around to building a new Hard Disk for the FMA3500C - I'm putting in a 80GB Seagate ST340015A in there with FreeDOS 1.3 on it. Just tried it in there and it works wonderfully on that laptop using OnTrack 9 DDO. Also backing up the original 250MB Drive over FTP because it has Stacker on it. Copying files over to the new drive as I type. BTW, I put in a picture of the press-in Molex connector - works great - just looped the ground through the center two contacts.

 

[JamieDoesStuff]

It's not really about loosening the hinges for me yet (although that probably will come in handy with the amount of machines I seem to be getting, all old and very crusty at this point) and the plastic on my Nan Tan seems quite good for its age, although I am a bit afraid of cracking the display housing now since I can't get it off - it's stuck on the upper part (not like I really need to but better check if there's some leaky crap in there before having to run wires all across). Still waiting for those plastic spudgers from AliExpress... it's been 2 1/2 months.

I'll go to a local hardware store next week for the epoxy, I've been putting it off a bit since it really isn't close to me at all.

Well, I did use BS And SUperglue for bonding in the brass screw anchors into the plastic on my NECs, as well as my FMAK9200. However, with screens, I have 2 tricks I use to loosen the hinges....

On my NEC Versas I usually use a cheap Daiso store chisel to loosen the clip on the end of the friction pack that holds the hinge together to loosen it, and then....maybe, rub in a little grease to help it move better.

On my FMAK9200, I found out that NanTan used bolts and threadlocker on the ends of the bolts. So I loosened them just enough to make the screen move easily, but just tight enough to hold it in place without it moving on it's own. Worked great. Still using it like that almost a year and a half later.

As for me....

Finally got around to building a new Hard Disk for the FMA3500C - I'm putting in a 80GB Seagate ST340015A in there with FreeDOS 1.3 on it. Just tried it in there and it works wonderfully on that laptop using OnTrack 9 DDO. Also backing up the original 250MB Drive over FTP because it has Stacker on it. Copying files over to the new drive as I type. BTW, I put in a picture of the press-in Molex connector - works great - just looped the ground through the center two contacts.

I've got to ask: why replace the drive if it works fine? I get reformatting without Stacker for easier file transfer, but it's a basic 486 laptop, no sound and with a pretty bad display for games. IMO 250MB is more than enough for any software up to 1993-94(5? even), right around this laptop's lifetime. Unless you're not planning to run DOS on it? Hmm, how much RAM does it have anyway? Now I'm thinking, you could be able to try NetBSD or, if you're brave enough, Linux on it. You'd have to do a loooot of recompiling of the kernels to get them to boot.

(also, in regards to one of your previous posts here: even if the drive didn't have Stacker compression, drives as old as that one wouldn't work with USB since they most likely don't support LBA).

 

[creepingnet]

It's not really about loosening the hinges for me yet (although that probably will come in handy with the amount of machines I seem to be getting, all old and very crusty at this point) and the plastic on my Nan Tan seems quite good for its age, although I am a bit afraid of cracking the display housing now since I can't get it off - it's stuck on the upper part (not like I really need to but better check if there's some leaky crap in there before having to run wires all across). Still waiting for those plastic spudgers from AliExpress... it's been 2 1/2 months.

I'll go to a local hardware store next week for the epoxy, I've been putting it off a bit since it really isn't close to me at all.


I've got to ask: why replace the drive if it works fine? I get reformatting without Stacker for easier file transfer, but it's a basic 486 laptop, no sound and with a pretty bad display for games. IMO 250MB is more than enough for any software up to 1993-94(5? even), right around this laptop's lifetime. Unless you're not planning to run DOS on it? Hmm, how much RAM does it have anyway? Now I'm thinking, you could be able to try NetBSD or, if you're brave enough, Linux on it. You'd have to do a loooot of recompiling of the kernels to get them to boot.

(also, in regards to one of your previous posts here: even if the drive didn't have Stacker compression, drives as old as that one wouldn't work with USB since they most likely don't support LBA).

Because I actually do use the laptop, and while it's not the ideal, My favorite activity is tricking them out. I'm not 100% replacing the drive, I may later remove Stacker and rebuild that HDD with my own standard setup of MS-DOS/WFW311. It's an FMA3500C, so it's color. It seems the Sanyo LCM-5331-22NTK is actually not that bad considering the age. I wish the contrast was a little better, but the ghosting is'nt even half that bad compared to the Casio MD820TT00C1 panels the Monochrome models had. I spent about an hour playing the old Duke Nukem games and the various Hoyle games on it the other night and had a blast. I tend to setup all my old laptops so I can run installs and software off the F:\ partition (complete with batch file scripts that automate the mounting of ISOs virtually). I'll say this, on the 80GB it runs FreeDOS like a beast.

My true plans for this laptop is to add a switchable audio port to the internal speaker for recording games on YouTube (stuff that does not use Adlib, plus it has "Turbo" so I can slow it down enough for some older 286/386 era DOS titles pretty easily), and so I can turn audio off when I'm playing video games on it at night. Reverse engineering the expansion port is tempting. I know I will be putting a Serial/WiFi Modem on the computer at some point as well (thinking about mounting it inside the case and using a ribbon cable from an external serial port to connect it to), some battery experiments, and whatnot (I actually got the last life out of the original NiCad, about 120 minutes in total, it gets 30 minutes a charge before a stalagtite short killed the battery). While it's not the best, and I do have better laptops (my FMAK9200D is my favorite, and that too is DSTN, and I have two Active Matrix NEC Versa), hardware hacking is also fun for me.

 

[JamieDoesStuff]

Hmm, so my unit probably doesn't have the Casio screen. The ghosting on there really doesn't feel bad when compared to, say, my ThinkPad 310 ( a rebranded Acernote Light 370PCX or the like. btw, these laptops aren't great, i honestly expected much more from a ThinkPad, even if it's a rebrand in a different case. oh and @3lectr1c for the site: these use a CR1220 for the CMOS). Its screen is really awful, refresh rate, color/contrast and even backlight wise.

Because I actually do use the laptop, and while it's not the ideal, My favorite activity is tricking them out.

Fair. I presonally usually like to keep them as stock as possible, but in this case a SIMM connector upgrade might be nice. I do like that you'll at least be using a somewhat fitting replacement, not some mSATA to IDE adapter or whatever. Also, with mounting ISOs you don't get any CD audio, right? But in this case it wouldn't matter.

 

[3lectr1c]

oh and @3lectr1c for the site: these use a CR1220 for the CMOS)

Will add that, thanks for the info!

 

[JamieDoesStuff]

They do have a proprietary 26 pin IBM external floppy drive port. And they use a proprietary HDD connector/caddy. The keyboard definitely feels like it's not by IBM. If not pressed right in the middle of the key, it just... slips and doesn't register. Also mine has a problem where while typing the mouse teleports to different regions of the screen. There seems to be a crack in the plastic/solder mask on its flex cable, so perhaps it's because of interference?

 

[3lectr1c]

They're acer machines, so not well built at all. I've seen a few with hinge failures too so watch out. The keyboard sounds similar to my PowerBook 150, also made by acer. They aren't great.

 

[JamieDoesStuff]

Mine have already started cracking. I'll have to open the screen assembly up someday, but since I'm not using the machine at all atm (and can't since I sacrificed the AC adapter that was powering it for the Nan Tan) I'm not worried. Thanks for the warning, still.
Had no idea Acer made keyboards, especially laptop ones.

 

[3lectr1c]

Well, they make their own keyboards, I can be fairy sure of that. As far as I know, the entire PowerBook 150 was contracted out to Acer to build. Acer part numbers are stuck on most of the parts in there.

 

[JamieDoesStuff]

The stuff Apple did in the 90's never fails to both amuse and amaze.

 

[3lectr1c]

Yup. PowerBook 100 was designed by Sony, the 150 was manufactured by Acer, the 2400 was co-designed with IBM, the 1400 was co-designed with Quanta... For the 1400 specifically, you can really tell if you look at it next to the WinBook XP5 Pro and FX, both also made by Quanta. The 1400 is like a hybrid blend of both with Apple styling.

 

[creepingnet]

Hmm, so my unit probably doesn't have the Casio screen. The ghosting on there really doesn't feel bad when compared to, say, my ThinkPad 310 ( a rebranded Acernote Light 370PCX or the like. btw, these laptops aren't great, i honestly expected much more from a ThinkPad, even if it's a rebrand in a different case. oh and @3lectr1c for the site: these use a CR1220 for the CMOS). Its screen is really awful, refresh rate, color/contrast and even backlight wise.

Fair. I presonally usually like to keep them as stock as possible, but in this case a SIMM connector upgrade might be nice. I do like that you'll at least be using a somewhat fitting replacement, not some mSATA to IDE adapter or whatever. Also, with mounting ISOs you don't get any CD audio, right? But in this case it wouldn't matter.

Could be. NanTan/Kapok seemed very inconsistent with their screen makers. It also seems most DSTN/STN screens had a pretty standard pinout (one thing I've been doing on my website - though I need to get back to it soon, is documenting pinouts for LCD's to find out which LCD's are compatible with each other). I have some theories the 9200s could be bumped up to Active Matrix given the number of pins on the connector, and the fact that some later 9x00 series NanTans had NEC Active Matrix panels. A guy e-mailed me awhile back with a 9600 that had an NEC Active Matrix Panel in it - just like my NEC Versa Laptops use (NL6448 - his was a 10.3 though, not a 9.4" which is the AC30 panels my NEC's have). Across the three NanTan's I've had in the last 3 years - a DFI MediaBook 9225SX, a BSi NP486DX33C (the FMA3500C), and a plain jane NanTan FMAK9200D - I've had a Casio, a Sanyo, and a Sharp. The Sharp of course is the nicest screen, that's on my 9200D, it's ALMOST as good as an Active Matrix with ghosting, but the contrast leaves a hair bit to be desired. I can stand to play Tyrian 2000 on it.

I've used those mSATA to 44pin PATA adapters before, $7 wasted. It worked, I'll give it that, but it only worked on my one 486 Desktop with a really fast, souped up VLB hard disk controller (PTI-255W), defeating the purpose. And I had some write/read errors randomly with certain mSATA disks. now regular SATA to IDE I've had a lot of luck with. I have a 128GB SATA SSD in my 486 desktop system running FreeDOS 1.3 RC4, just because I can.

It's true, you don't get the CD audio on virtualized ISOs (might be a way using a special driver and MP3s - maybe a future programming project). It's a bit of a trade-off (as many things are with these old PCs).

 

[3lectr1c]

The mSata adapters are really only good in later IDE systems from the late 90s through to the end of the IDE era. Early stuff won't cooperate with them usually.

 

[3lectr1c]

The same guy who gave you the "FMA9600" info emailed me additional images and info on the laptop, and I have more info on it now that you can add.

It's FCC info is missing from Nan Tan's page because it was registered under Kapok instead. Model is potentially Kapok 9600T or Kapok K9800. FCCID is L4PK9800.
It definitely does not fall under the "FMA" naming though, which I suspect isn't even correct for the Nan Tans either. I think they just called them the "Notebook 8100" or similar instead of "FMA8100" where FMA was just their grantee code. I'm probably still keeping the FMA naming on my site though since it's what people with generic ones would be searching for.

 

[DeltaDon]

I found that decent replacement for small IDE hard drives is a CF card with an under $10 CF to PATA adapter. I had a friend modify a couple of Thingiverse 3D printed CF adapter PCB STL's of 2.5" hard drive mounts so that the present day available CF card adapters that come with a 3 pin M/Slave header can be mounted just like a 2.5" hard drive into a laptop's caddy. The Thingiverse STL's assume you have old adapter cards without the 3 pin header.

You do need to use Rufus or other program once on a CF card to configure it to report to BIOS as a fixed drive and not a removable device or the laptop will freak out and not boot from the CF card. Yes, you can load DOS onto it from floppies and then try to boot, but it will not boot since BIOS sees it as a non-boot device. Rufus will also load an ISO directly onto the CF card and will load FreeDOS without having an ISO.

I have a stack of 2GB CF's, (plus a few smaller sized ones) and other cards from 4GB on up to 32GB for BIOS's that can use bigger drives without using ONTRAK. I also have a few 1.4GB to 2.1GB spinning HDD's that are still spinning, but are slower than slow plus they cluck and make other noises when they are used. I would rather not kill them trying to stay period correct. OBTW, for even newer laptops, MSATA SSD's work with PATA or SATA adapters and I have a stack of used 64GB MSATA SSD's I picked up dirt cheap some time ago when they were sold to me as 16GB SSD's. Seems the original use was as 16GB drives and RUFUS freaked out telling me that no they were 64GB's. Took me by surprise. Even with the cost of the MSATA adapters going up in price it is still cheaper than buying a new SSD if you can find a new PATA SSD these days.

 

[DeltaDon]

3lectric, I have some Kapok 8500 laptops plus Clevo 3100/3300's and newer buried in my stash. The dual model numbers was a common thing with Clevo - they differ only in case plastics. I guess, so different OEM's could have different looking laptops. My own favorite Clevo laptops were the newer P4 D470 - D870 models which I don't believe I listed on my long gone website. I still use one of them.