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New Amiga Haul... Almost Immediately Broke Down in front of me...

raoulduke

Experienced Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2015
Messages
356
Location
New Jersey
I got a crazy and crazy cheap set of an Amiga 2000 and 500 with an insane amount of accessories and software. The 500 has a faulty PSU that I'll put way to the side for the moment.

The 2000 worked okay until I tried to swap out the HD. Then it progressively had trouble booting until it would just either freeze at a black screen or freeze at certain points booting from the Workbench 2.0 Install disk (when it asks you if you want to do a keymap or something).

I reseated all the chips but I accidentally damaged Fat Lady. I used a knife; I've used knives every time I've done this but this thing was wedged in there and I didn't realize what I was doing until it was way way too late. So there are two issues. 1) I pulled a pin out of Fat Lady [*a second one fell out...]. I can't figure out how to solder it back on (there's nothing protruding, really); put that to the side for a minute. 2) I did some damage to the socket itself - mostly broke bits of the plastic dividers off and pushed the metal pins toward the sides (i.e. contact issues, maybe).

I've spent a fair amount of time pulling the metal pins forward and I've replaced Fat Lady (minus a pin) with Fat Agnus from the 500, which I believe should be compatible - they are both 8370s and I have not found any notations to differences - but feel free to jump in.

Now I get a green screen. I had washed the board so I'm going to give it a few days - or at least until tomorrow - before I try again. I have some issues here, though. 1) I need a new Fat Lady and they seem to be a little hard to find, and I'm cheap. 2) Regardless, what are my options on the socket pins? 3) I don't have a good picture of where those pins are going - do they just descend and sit (but are not soldered) to contacts on the board - i.e. can I just pull them (not break them per se) out or is that also disconnecting them... 4) And then can I insert little pins or something or is that insane?

This was such a good afternoon that turned into such a total disaster. On the other hand I can also just sell the machines and try to get a very barebones 2000. [I have a VGA card, SCSI card with 8mb of RAM, VR Glove, extra floppy drive - internal/external. I've been waiting almost 20 years to try an Amiga... sadly short-lived.]

After reading this, [http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=68417&highlight=Green+Screen] let me note that my machine turns on and flickers between green and like interlaced gray lines 10 times, then gets stuck on green. So it's not hitting a reset sequence - unless/and idk what the 10x screen switch stuff is. But this is clearly not purely a display issue. It doesn't get near kickstart/the boot cycle.
 
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I had removed the battery because it was heavily corroded and I have not replaced it. Does not having a battery do something?
 
No, the battery is only for the real-time clock. Picture of battery area would be helpful- check for damage.
 
Okay, first thing, smack yourself in the head for the "knife" trick!

ALWAYS USE THE PROPER TOOL FOR THE JOB!!!!

Radio Shack has the chip pullers for the square chips and they're only a couple of bucks! Buy one. Put it in your tool kit. USE IT.

However, now that the damage is done, I'm assuming you're not that good at soldering so toodle over to amiga.org and contact mechy. He is a top notch tech and will help you get the socket replaced PROPERLY. He's extremely reasonable. Heck once I had to force him to take payment for a job I wasn't up to.

After you get your motherboard back properly repaired then you can work out the other problems. Or, if you want to save some time, let mechy check it out for you.
 
Thanks so much for your reply. Let me ask this, since I joined amiga.org yesterday but can't post replies or threads... how do I get those features (I emailed them but they haven't gotten back).

I prefaced this very badly, and I am decent at soldering though the prospect of 84 contacts is daunting. The 'finest' (in size terms) things I've made are an InPort to Atari ST bus mouse adapter and a VGA to Atari ST video cable adapter. This is a way bigger job but I probably can do it with enough patience.

[And yes the knife thing was amazingly stupid. I think maybe I used a knife once but normally I think I used small screwdrivers for these types of sockets; and that was just a mistake in excitement/haste. I've only done these a few times. Lesson learned...]

My concern is that prior to reseating the chip, I started to get those red-on-black screen system failure codes. And I think I once got a green screen. That's why I was reseating the chips in the first place. And this problem was degenerative - I had been using the machine for several hours beforehand. I had washed the board because of severe battery corrosion - including in three contacts of the 68k socket, but it seemed to be okay. And I don't think the green code indicates a 68k problem

The reason I throw this out is because even if I, or mechy, fixed the Fat Lady socket, that may not have been the problem. It's doing the same thing this morning. If I'm not mistaken that means it's likely either a chip RAM failure, and idk how to attack that honestly, or a problem with the 8520 (CBM 318029-0x)?

Also maybe I overstated the extent of the socket damage. Maybe 5 pins of the socket, those closest to the front of the machine and the left (the 5 on that front-left end) got pushed back so they might have contact issues; I've pulled them forward but I'm concerned maybe they hit a contact on the ground that I've if not severed then obscured. [I was particularly interested in Agnus because corrosion was visible; what was really stupid was using the knife against the contacts themselves... lesson undoubtedly learned. But so that's actually what created the socket pins issue. The pins that fell Agnus may just have been corroded.] Still get the same loop, which actually now might be the same as in the problem above. But his problem was a bad chip. Maybe the 500 chip is bad; I guess I'd have no real way of knowing that until I get it running.
 
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[Nvm they activated my acct on amiga.org, also - http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=806942#post806942].

Okay after a minor blip it's back to the green-gray cycle. Another question; initially I'd noticed a single wire soldered to a pin on the Kicstart 2.04 ROM. Now I see another wire soldered to another pin on that ROM (see generally, http://www.lemonamiga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7444&sid=540d4cd8f169fe7a440c72d724a058cb). They're both clipped and/or connected to nothing. I have a Rev. 4.4 mobo and I don't see it on this (http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.c...otos/5c40a8a5-fffb-446f-af44-7837c8490058.jpg).

Any thoughts on that? I don't think that's connected to the issues, I'm just curious. I'm doing a deeper mobo clean with all the chips desocketed. I removed the mobo from the case this time. And I'll do both sides. There's minor corrosion on the underside not directly under but near under the Agnus socket, and it looks like it ate through the laminant on two of the traces.
 
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Fixed it per my Amiga.org thread. Basically it was a Fat Lady/Agnus contact problem. So eventually I just partially seated it touching the tops of the contacts and it works perfectly again!
 
Yeah the knife is the wrong way. But don't be fooled, pins can get bent or broken just as easily with the proper tool. The only difference is the socket doesn't break with the proper tool.

Now then, you were supposed to put a MegAchip in there since you pulled the 8370 out. :)

And the chip was always called Fat Agnus. I don't know why they silkscreened Fat Lady on the early boards.
 
Fixed it per my Amiga.org thread. Basically it was a Fat Lady/Agnus contact problem. So eventually I just partially seated it touching the tops of the contacts and it works perfectly again!


I need to apologize for coming on so strong the other day.

Yeah, the knife trick is definitely not a good thing to do, but still, I've done dumber things when I was starting out.

Anyway, the reason I was such a over-bearing a**hole was I did a REALLY stupid rookie mistake on my main machine. I was fiddling with the partitions and hadn't made a backup of the way it was originally. Yeah, completely lost the mbr. So now I'm in the middle of a FULL rebuild.

amiga.org is a wonderful organization and resource. You do have to watch out for the snarky, wiseguys, but there is a tremendous amount of experience there and most are willing to help a fellow out.

BTW, regarding the wire on the ROM. That was intended for earlier version motherboards, aka rev. 5 and earlier. With rev 6a and newer, it's not needed.

The same is true on the A2000, but I don't remember the rev. numbers on it. Although, I'm pretty sure you'll need it on your 4.4. That may account for your green screen since the wire is cut. Try soldering it back in place. There are probably "left overs" from the original solder job so you'll know where to replace it. If not, check here: http://www.l8r.net/technical/t-204rom.shtml

Also, if you're considering moving on up to 3.X, it gets even worse with you having to bend pins up, soldering to multiple pins, etc. It'd be easier to just buy a new motherboard! Ask me how I know...
 
I appreciate that but you didn't come on that strong. But I've since solved the problem and am currently running it off a zip drive. I think I'll spend a few hours low-level formatting a 2gb drive later and then try out my 3d specs.

I realized yesterday that the screen was probably 'light green' and not 'green,' and I wonder if this was actually just a CIA problem I fixed by replacing all the chips with the ones from the A500.
 
Is light green a valid diagnostic colour?

Green would very likely be caused by a bad Agnus connection.

If I were you I'd swap CIAs again one at a time and isolate any good or bad ones.
 
Yeah light green is a diagnostic color; which I didn't notice initially. I'll do a more thorough test either in a few months or when I get/more likely find the parts to fix the A500. For the moment the 2000, except for the A2320 (which may just be an issue with my monitor), seems to be working okay - with a new 2gb HD also [and 9mb of RAM...].
 
It might not have helped in this case, but I always wrap PLCC sockets with a zip tie to give it extra strength when removing the IC - I find it reduces the possibility of disaster. (I did say reduce and not eliminate :D )
 
That's actually a very good idea. When I was removing the Amber chip from my apparently dead/dud a2320 I tried to basically use my fingers as a zip tie. So your idea is better.

I need to build myself a VGA adapter. I accidentally bought a 23-pin to 9-pin VGA adapter, so I'll use that as the basis for construction. The diagram is here (http://eab.abime.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=16650&d=1211448710) and an explanation is here (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=36781). They mention putting a 100uf cap between the GND and VCC lines; does that mean 5v 100uf?

[otherwise the machine works fine except sometimes i get a keyboard blink; seems to possibly be at random but it could indicate the early throws of a ROM checksum/kickstart problem - hopefully not]
 
That's actually a very good idea. When I was removing the Amber chip from my apparently dead/dud a2320 I tried to basically use my fingers as a zip tie. So your idea is better.

I need to build myself a VGA adapter. I accidentally bought a 23-pin to 9-pin VGA adapter, so I'll use that as the basis for construction. The diagram is here (http://eab.abime.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=16650&d=1211448710) and an explanation is here (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=36781). They mention putting a 100uf cap between the GND and VCC lines; does that mean 5v 100uf?

[otherwise the machine works fine except sometimes i get a keyboard blink; seems to possibly be at random but it could indicate the early throws of a ROM checksum/kickstart problem - hopefully not]

The schematic that you posted will work if you're using DblNtsc or DblPal video modes on your typical multisync VGA monitor while running workbench, but most everything out there won't sync at frequencies below 31kHz horizontal. So if you are expecting games to work on your modern monitor you will need something to double the scanrate.
 
lol. Well ironically (I hope/think) the random LCD I bought to test the a2320 can actually sync down to 30khz (which I found surprising); I don't remember if that'll leave a vertical frequency problem. But I'm not going to stick with composite; I don't know that I can revive the a2320. I made a list of the caps but I need help identifying what they all are.*

Well the cable is long; but by buffer you mean the capacitor? And I mean I'll just get the $0.20 buffer anyway (and then not use it), but so what's the issue there? Interference growing with the length of the cable? I really don't understand the underlying science behind this, which is why I'm asking.

*http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=70774&page=2

"Code / #of Caps / Meaning
A5E 104M / 13 / 5V 0.1uf; +/- 20%; tolerance control
476 +16k / 2 / 16V 47 uf
101 / 3 / 0.1nf
019 A5M / 4 / 5V ?; AVX; +/-20%
334 E5Z / 3 / 5V 0.33uf; +80%; tol. cntl.
102 C5K / 1 /
101 A1[4?] / 1
040 ACF / 1
043 AAM / 1
045 ACP / 1
001 AMF / 1
010 ANP / 1

And then those two electrolytic caps are 16V 470uf."
 
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My adapter did not work...

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=807468#post807468

*The diagram I found for the 15-pin VGA - I'm basically wiring the 23-pin Dsub Amiga port directly to a VGA cable - shows VSYNC coming out of pin 22, but it's supposed to be from pin 12. Correcting that I still get nothing. Maybe this is a frequency issue; so I'll still aim to find an adapter so I can try the Dell CRT.
 
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