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Probably Out Of Topic, sorry for that ...

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Gerardcjat

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Joined
Feb 23, 2010
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40 Km South of Paris, France
I would like to ask the following.
Where do you suggest I post it ??
( THIS file is, so far, the only one I am used to ... )

Who was the first company to offer HARD DISK to small ( personal ) computers ??

I emphasize : HARD DISK, either included in a small personal computer OR offered as an add-on

- with which size and interface type ??
- when ? ( Around 1980, I think )
- initialy targeted at which machine ?

My guess :
Corvus, with an 8 inches Hard Drive and unknown ( at least by me ;-) ) "interface type" ????

Thanks all for sharing your knowledge !
 
I think the answer depends on what you call a "Personal Computer" so the Cromenco Z80 boxes had hard disks in 1979, assuming the Wikipedia article is correct. At this time I am pretty sure all disks were ST-506 MFM type interfaces, but looking at the Wiki for Seagate this wasn't released until 1980....
 
Hi All;
Shurgart had made the floppy drives, and For our discussion IBM invented the Hard Drive, and many of the Big companies followed suit.. Such as Control Data Corp.. Anyway Alan (I think) Shurgart worked at IBM before He started His own company, So (I think) He knew about what IBM was doing and some of the Technology that was done (invented at IBM) was a part of what was used at Shurgart for their Floppy Drive development.. So, I not saying they were the first But, Shurgart did have Hard Drives.. And many other companies were coming out of the Woodwork to get into the Fray.. I have an Old Drive that I can't remember who made it, that came out of a Cromenco system, and the name started with M, I will need to unbury it to find out who made it.. It is a non MFM drive..
THANK YOU Marty
 
Thanks Guys !

So far, my search produced this :

IN what I call PERSONAL COMPUTERS ( Computers an individual **CAN** buy, in early 1980, although it was really expensive !! )

It seems there has been a life before Shugart / Seagate !!
It "seems" that Corvus, Cromemco, others (?? ) used Hard Disk Drives made by IMI.
"probably" MFM encoding, "probably" proprietary interface
( Because the first STxxx were NOT yet released, as far as I know )

@ Marty : I bet your drive is IMI . Could you check, please, if you get some time for .... Thanks

Are my findings accurate ?

Still searching .....
 
The July 1980 cover story of HP Journal was: The HP-85, HP's first personal computer

Introduced in January of that year - I don't know if you'd consider the HP-85 and like series a "Personal" computer or not. Except for battery - it almost qualified as a "laptop" - containing a built-in CRT, Keyboard, Tape drive, Printer, and option slots. Ultimately there would be many options - HPIB among them. I myself used one with an external HPIB drive. (introduced later)

Another point - and here's where the hard disk comes in... I recall a later news item in one of the trade magazines in the early 80's I think - where HP announced it was CLOSING it's small hard drive manufacturing plant - at a time when "Winchester Drives" were hitting the scene. I want to say HP's withdrawn drive was in the sub-3" class - maybe 2.5" or 1.x"? This was probably the drive used in one of HP's early laptops - I'm not sure.

In any case, I was unaware of those drives at all then, and thought it funny at the time - but attributed it to competition - which HP often shy'd away from in those days.

Since I was programming an HP-85 well before introduction of the IBM PC, it was definitely earlier. But as to Hard drive applicability - you'll have to judge if it had to be offered at the time of initial purchase or added later - would "qualify" for the purpose of your question. Such a distinction might allow other manufacturers to qualify as well.
 
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Thanks !
Quote : " where HP announced it was CLOSING it's small hard drive manufacturing plant - at a time when "Winchester Drives" were hitting the scene. ", WELL, Sub 3 " at that time !!!???? I am surprised, but you sure know better than me.
( Just shortly before that period, I was working with HP 2116B industrial computer, and then didn't know much about "individual computers" )

About "what" qualify for this "search" :
ANY Hard Drive ( including external ADD-ON ) as far as :
- They were designed ( and sold ) to be connected to any "Personal computer" of that time ( Probably mainly S100 computers ?? )
- which imply that ( aside to be way expensive !! ) they ** COULD ** have been purchased by individuals
( by very healty S100 owners ?? )
 
Is there a specific reason why this thread is in the DEC area of the forums?
 
When I saw this question, I though Seagate ST-412 (dec RD50). It seems to really be the "small" drive that found its way into everything. I have an ST-412 inside my HP 9135A HPIB drive for my 85.

Lou
 
That, I know, LOU. According to wikipedia, these drives were introduced in 1980.
But it seems that BEFORE that date, 8 inches drives were available for the "hobbyist" :) market. ( S100 machines ?? )
I remember seeing something related on THIS forum, but so far, could not retrieve it :-(

8 inches Drives "borrowed" from industrial computers like DEC PDP perhaps ? Did THAT existed and possible?
 
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14" hard disks (e.g. Shugart SA4000) were available for many early personal computers. I think that someone made a Diablo cartridge drive adapter for the Alteir and IMSAI boxes. All in the 1970s.
 
Following up Lou's info - I find the HP-7910 - one of many HPIB connected "Sealed Winchester" type disk drive offerings in my 1982 HP Catalog.

Note: Fellow HP Fanatics will be happy to see the HP catalogs from 1967 to 1992 offered online!
​

The HP-7910 and HP-85 make their HP catalog debut in the 1981 issue. Though the HP-7910 is not one of the "Featured" drives listed for compatibility with the '85 "Mass Storage ROM" option - I don't think it would have occurred to HP to advertise it's $9100 disk drive for use with their $3300 PC.
 
Chuck(G) said:
14" hard disks (e.g. Shugart SA4000) were available for many early personal computers. I think that someone made a Diablo cartridge drive adapter for the Alteir and IMSAI boxes. All in the 1970s.
Click to expand...

So, my idea for making a USB controller for the RL02 drive isn't completely absurd? Drat! I prefer doing absurd things.
 
Gerardcjat said:
Who was the first company to offer HARD DISK to small ( personal ) computers ??

I emphasize : HARD DISK, either included in a small personal computer OR offered as an add-on

- with which size and interface type ??
- when ? ( Around 1980, I think )
- initialy targeted at which machine ?

My guess :
Corvus, with an 8 inches Hard Drive and unknown ( at least by me ;-) ) "interface type" ????

Thanks all for sharing your knowledge !
Click to expand...
I've been trying to kick the VCF habit, but your PM lured me back ;-)

I don't know if they were the first, but IMI (Corvus was an OEM using IMI drives) was certainly one of the early ones with that 8" 7710 drive; I've got one of those drives dated 1982, but AFAIK the first ones came out in 1978. Their 5" drives came out in 1981 with the 5007 and were available with either the 34-pin IMI interface or a custom controller; a little later they were also available with an ST-506 interface and used in PCs etc. Don't confuse the interface with the recording method or the basic technology; these were all "Winchester" drives using MFM recording, albeit with different interfaces.

The IMI interface combined control and data signals in a 34-pin interface physically like a modern 3.5" floppy drive, logically similar to but different in detail from the ST-506 interface.

I don't know who else used the 7710, but Cromemco was certainly one of the first; Corvus used them in external hard disks for Apples and PETs and they continued their relationship with IMI even when they went to the ST-506 interface, and the two companies ultimately merged.

Cromemco called the 7710 an HD11 and the systems were a Z-2H (internal) or an HDD (external), the 5007 5MB 5" drive was an HD5, and the S100 controllers were the WDI and WDI-II; you should be able to find manuals and schematics under those numbers.
 
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Thank you very much, MikeS
Very informative post !!

Just to be sure I fully understand your post :
Quote : " .... albeit with different interfaces...
and the S100 controllers were the WDI and WDI-II; you should be able to find manuals and schematics under those numbers. "
Does this apply ALSO to the ( first ) IMI proprietary ( physical layer ) 7710 / 7720 interface
or does it apply ONLY to the following in time 5007 drives ???
 
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Gerardcjat said:
Thank you very much, MikeS
Very informative post !!

Just to be sure I fully understand your post :
Quote : " .... albeit with different interfaces...
and the S100 controllers were the WDI and WDI-II; you should be able to find manuals and schematics under those numbers. "
Does this apply ALSO to the ( first ) IMI proprietary ( physical layer ) 7710 / 7720 interface
or does it apply ONLY to the following in time 5007 drives ???
Click to expand...
I think the IMI interface was the same for all of them (7710, 7720, 5007, 5012 and 5021) but the original WDI could only handle the 77x0 8" drives (HD11 and HD22) whereas the WDI-II could also handle the different cylinder/head configuration of the 5" drives (HD5 and HD20).
 
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Hi

I have an early Corvus Systems winchester, external cabinet 5MB revision C. That cabinet has an IMI 5007 5,25 winchester with 26 pin interface.
In the top of the cabinet is a " Model 5000 controller" Z80 based, it has 120 (?) pin edge connector. Inside the cabinet is a date stamp: May 1981.
Outside the cabinet is a 34 pin flatcable interface. (same protocol for all Corvus flatcable drives)


The drive is still working. When powering up the ready led lights up after a few sec. I used to have it connected to a Intertec Superbrain, but for some reason I lost my SB<>Corvus interface in the past. Propably threw it away when cleaning out some boxes. I remember throwing away stuff that often.... which I would love to have again...
Later on, during HW/SW development, the 5MB drive was succesfully connected to IBM-PC and clones, Apple II, Xerox, TRS-80, Corvus Concept, Omninet converter etc.

Corvus flatcable drives could be "daisy-chained" to max 4.
I also recall that Corvus switched to the ST512/412 drives. The largest capacity was gained with the Maxtor XT-1140, it was installed in their 128MB Omnidrive.

Is this IMI-5007 drive, (with 26pin interface) the same drive as used in Cromenco?


With kind regards,
Ton Hekstra
"AND-0FH" Hard/Software Solutions
 
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