SFD1001 Question

[ClassicHasClass]

There is so much fraud in out-of-production chip sales now it's really a threat to the hobby.

 

[Ruud]

I only can give you one advice: buy your 6530 from people you know and can test the 6530 on forehand. Regarding the 04: forget about them. I just happened to run in ten pieces some 20 (?) years ago from an ex Commodore dealer. Most of them were given away within a month because there weren't any others to get, already then. That's why I decided to design a replacement. Most, because I still have two (sorry, just for egoistic me)

And I told this before: you CANNOT replace one 6530 with just another. It is quite possible that your 01 is a real 6530 but that doesn't mean it can replace your 6530. The function of pins can differ and that can cause the trouble you experienced.

 

[Eudimorphodon]

And I told this before: you CANNOT replace one 6530 with just another. It is quite possible that your 01 is a real 6530 but that doesn't mean it can replace your 6530. The function of pins can differ and that can cause the trouble you experienced.

Heating up and going nuclear sounds more like a bad/fake chip than it being the wrong 6530. I mean, yes, the internal mask ROM programming on one 6530 might do something like program an I/O pin as an output instead of an input and cause contention, but isn’t the point of the adapter board the RIOT was plugged into to disable the built-in mask ROM and basically convert it into a 6532?

 

[Hugo Holden]

I only can give you one advice: buy your 6530 from people you know and can test the 6530 on forehand. Regarding the 04: forget about them. I just happened to run in ten pieces some 20 (?) years ago from an ex Commodore dealer. Most of them were given away within a month because there weren't any others to get, already then. That's why I decided to design a replacement. Most, because I still have two (sorry, just for egoistic me)

And I told this before: you CANNOT replace one 6530 with just another. It is quite possible that your 01 is a real 6530 but that doesn't mean it can replace your 6530. The function of pins can differ and that can cause the trouble you experienced.

If this IC 901869-01 IC's was a genuine and good part though, would you have expected it to work as a replacement for the one on the adapter board in my SFD unit ? I though it probably would because it was intended for use in Commodore drives.

According to this site:

6530 6532 TIM – Retro Computing

retro.hansotten.nl

The 901869 -01 was used in the 8050 and 8250 drives.

If that is not expected to work, do I have to find a 6530 with an "04" suffix to have a compatible part, or is that suffix meaningless ?

Or a better question, of these variants of commodore 6530's do you know which ones could be expected to work on the original adapter board in the SFD1001 ?

901466-01 6530-??? DOS 1.0 Shugart SA390 2040, 3040 and 4040
901466-02 6530-028 DOS 1.2 Shugart SA390 2040, 3040 and 4040
901466-04 6530-034 DOS 2.0 DOS 2.1 Shugart SA390
901483-02 6530-036 DOS 2.5
901483-03 6530-038 DOS 2.5 Micropolis 1006-II (8050)
901483-04 6530-039 DOS 2.5 Tandon TM100-3M (8050)
901884-01 6530-040 DOS 2.7 Tandon TM100-3M (8050) Tandon TM100-4M (8250)
901885-01 6530-044 DOS 2.7 Micropolis ???
901885-04 6530-047 DOS 2.7 Micropolis 1006-II (8050) Micropolis 1006-IV (8250) Micropolis 1106-II (Safari, mit Garagentor, 8050) Micropolis 1106-IV (Safari, mit Garagentor, 8250)
901869-01 6530-048 DOS 2.7 M.P.I. 101SM (8050)M.P.I. 102?? (8250)
251256-02 6530-050 DOS 2.7 Matsushita JU-570-2 (8250LP)
251257-02A 2716 DOS 2.7 Matsushita JU-570 (SFD-1001) Matsushita JU-570-2 (SFD-1001)
251474-01B 2716 DOS 2.7 Matsushita JU-570-2 (8250LP)

 

[Ruud]

Heating up and going nuclear sounds more like a bad/fake chip than it being the wrong 6530.

I agree.

but isn’t the point of the adapter board the RIOT was plugged into to disable the built-in mask ROM

Yes.

and basically convert it into a 6532?

This page sums up the differences between a 6532 and 6530 and I'm inclined to answer the last question with a "no". But I understand what you mean.

 

[Ruud]

Or a better question, of these variants of commodore 6530's do you know which ones could be expected to work on the original adapter board in the SFD1001 ?

Wow, you really did your home work. And to be honest, I have no idea and for the simple reason I never had the need to try it out. I have thought about it but I don't and never had spares of the other types. And I simply didn't want to risk good ones of working equipment just for an experiment. If I ever need a replacement for another 6530, I just go through the schematics to see what I (maybe) have to change so I can use the momentary 6530-replacement in another device.

 

[Eudimorphodon]

This page sums up the differences between a 6532 and 6530 and I'm inclined to answer the last question with a "no". But I understand what you mean

Yeah, I know there’s some significant changes between the two (twice as much RAM in the 6532, etc.). I meant it in a very non-precise “ROM-less 6530” sense.

 

[Hugo Holden]

A remark was made that Commodore made this adapter board so that they could use up the stocks of 6530's, possibly suggesting that more than one variant of a Commodore 6530 could be used along with the Uv Eprom on the adapter board in the SFD1001.

But, so far, we have no scientific or practical/experimental evidence that any other 6530 than the 901885-04 will definitely work on this adapter. Just a "guess" that some other Commodore 6530 variants might work.

The 901869-01 might work, if it was a genuine part that is. If I do find any other 6530 variants that work on this adapter, I will report it

 

[Hugo Holden]

I threw the first 6530 901869-01 IC away because it drastically overheated, and I concluded it was probably a fake.

I decided to give the seller another chance, in case the first was a dud, and bought another one. It arrived at work today and I was able to subject it to an examination under a good high power binocular microscope.

It is likely a very old IC, there is rust and corrosion on some of the pins. There are multiple small irregular scratches from poor storage or handling on the IC's bottom surface, it may once have been in a bag with other parts rubbing on it.

However, the top surface looks perfect, not a single scratch or mark on it and a slightly darker and glossy black than the rest of the IC body. Looking at the sides I can see the line of spray, it appears that the top of the IC has been sprayed & recoated, and the label letters looks fresh & new with a fake 1980's date code. I had thought that the labels on these were applied by a laser on the last one, but closer inspection shows it is fresh ink/paint.

Definitely a re-labelled fake and I doubt if it is any type of IC even related to a 6530 at all. It is heading for the bin, I won't even attempt putting it in the disk drive for a test.

The lengths people go to deceive others with fake parts can be extreme and it can also risk damage to the equipment the fakes are put in. That is what bugs me the most, the legalities of making fake parts are only one thing, but in my view when the ethics sink this low, that is the worst crime.

 

[VERAULT]

Can you tell us the seller so we know to avoid them?

 

[Hugo Holden]

Can you tell us the seller so we know to avoid them?

I'd prefer not to at the moment, because I think a lot of the time the seller has been defrauded by their supplier and they have no idea they have been duped. And I wouldn't want to upset anyone's business. I don't think the seller has the gear or ability to pull a fake like this off.

My policy to deal with it is that I notify the seller that the part is fake and wait to see what they do.

In many cases, if they are a good people, they stop selling it.

If I see at a later date that they are still selling the part (knowing it is fake) then I might be more inclined to name them because of their dodgy ethics, but I don't like finger pointing, in case its one finger pointing at them and three back at myself.

You have to be careful what you put down in print too and what you accuse other people of, it is very possible to get it wrong and they are also a victim.

Some years ago I was asked by a company owner I knew about a person he met who was trying to sell him something and do a "big deal" and he said he knew me. The company owner asked me what I thought about this individual (it was not good due to his history). Rather than naming anybody specific and committing slander I simply said: "It all reminds me of an episode of Lost in Space, with Dr. Smith up to something and the Robot waving his arms saying; Warning, Warning, Will Robinson".