Should Pentium II/III Systems Have a Forum?

[hunterjwizzard]

explain to me how its important? specifically how its more important than the era before ot after it. its the definition of mediocre... when the price and quality bottomed out and everything was just the opposite of special....

Its like saying we need to fondly remember the cars made durring the gas crisis when they are better left forgotten... unless that is you like 4 cylinder mustangs..

If that's your attitude, how is any hardware relevant? Just use modern hardware and emulators for everything. Its the same thing, right?

 

[VERAULT]

Just use modern hardware and emulators for everything. Its the same thing, right?

emulators have thier place but i always prefer real hardware.

let me guess. the P4 era was your first real(or at least when you got really into it) computer era?

If so I get it.. its just a really low point for pcs.

Plus you can still get them by the dozen for nothing because its like was mentioned.. Not vintage.. just outdated.

 

[Plasma]

It's easy to lose track of time. 20 years ago, the IBM XT was 20 years old. And that was certainly considered vintage in 2003.

 

[hunterjwizzard]

let me guess. the P4 era was your first real(or at least when you got really into it) computer era?

In fact it was not. But good guess!

emulators have thier place but i always prefer real hardware.

And that's where the early P4-era finds its niche. Its a very narrow one, but it does exist.

 

[Eudimorphodon]

It was already suggested that we could simply aggregate Pentium 4s and late-model 32 bit AMD CPUs into the same category as P6 CPUs and call it a day, that seems like it would make a lot more sense than spinning up *another* basically unused forum category specifically for Pentium 4s. (The Pentium 2nd/3rd Generation forum has fewer than a hundred topics in it after existing for just barely over a year, and some of those were moved into it when it was created.)

Maybe I just fail to fully appreciate the splendor and subtle detail that exists in the vast tapestry of machines that were plopped out between the late 1990's and 2006 or so, but realistically the 32-bit Windows era was kind of an "end of history" moment when it came to PC hardware? A gamer PC from 2006 has all the same moving parts as one from 1999, they're all just individually bigger and faster. I mean, sure, there's hours of fun to be had fighting over which video card's dad could beat up who's, but does there really need to be X-many forums split up by the flavor of CPU behind the slot those cards go into?

 

[hunterjwizzard]

It was already suggested that we could simply aggregate Pentium 4s and late-model 32 bit AMD CPUs into the same category as P6 CPUs and call it a day, that seems like it would make a lot more sense than spinning up *another* basically unused forum category specifically for Pentium 4s. (The Pentium 2nd/3rd Generation forum has fewer than a hundred topics in it after existing for just barely over a year, and some of those were moved into it when it was created.)

Maybe I just fail to fully appreciate the splendor and subtle detail that exists in the vast tapestry of machines that were plopped out between the late 1990's and 2006 or so, but realistically the 32-bit Windows era was kind of an "end of history" moment when it came to PC hardware? A gamer PC from 2006 has all the same moving parts as one from 1999, they're all just individually bigger and faster. I mean, sure, there's hours of fun to be had fighting over which video card's dad could beat up who's, but does there really need to be X-many forums split up by the flavor of CPU behind the slot those cards go into?

I agree. I think lumping all the 32bit windows-era stuff together would cover everything nicely. Plus I could finally post about my weird P4 Win98 system.

 

[VERAULT]

It's easy to lose track of time. 20 years ago, the IBM XT was 20 years old. And that was certainly considered vintage in 2003.

haha. I like that.

This is all just conjecture of course. it doesnt matter one way or another.. just opinions.

 

[VERAULT]

but realistically the 32-bit Windows era was kind of an "end of history" moment when it came to PC hardware

Yeah thats basically how I see it to. The climax of gaming for me was an AMD K6-2 550 with dual voodoo 2 cards in sli.... the best? the fastest? The pinnacle? OF COURSE NOT! but a few years earlier 3D wasnt attainable and then it was.. it was a moment in time... And i remember that. After that everyone had it and it didnt matter anymore. It was all more or less the same drudge.. thats the P4 era in my mind...


But Im not sure id call the K6-2 interesting either. anything after the 486 had much smaller leaps and bounds in the way i remember it.

 

[Agent Orange]

Yeah thats basically how I see it to. The climax of gaming for me was an AMD K6-2 550 with dual voodoo 2 cards in sli.... the best? the fastest? The pinnacle? OF COURSE NOT! but a few years earlier 3D wasnt attainable and then it was.. it was a moment in time... And i remember that. After that everyone had it and it didnt matter anymore. It was all more or less the same drudge.. thats the P4 era in my mind...


But Im not sure id call the K6-2 interesting either. anything after the 486 had much smaller leaps and bounds in the way i remember it.

Still have my K6 and a lot went into that build just before the COVID thing.

 

[hunterjwizzard]

wish I'd bought PCI voodoo 2s back when they were dirt cheap -_-

 

[TH2002]

Consider - a lot of P4-era hardware still uses AGP slots and the boards have Windows 98 drivers available. At least a subset of retro-enthusiasts are interested in the graphics card specifically and not what type of CPU sits on the board. Being able to use DDR memory, AGP 8x graphics cards, and DDR RAM but still run win98 is attractive to a lot of people.

That would more or less fit the bill of what I'd personally classify as a 'tweener' system - which of course, do absolutely have practical uses and a certain appeal in the vintage computer community.

For example - do I have a fondness for early and mid-2000s brushed silver Windows XP laptops with 4:3 displays? Certainly, though I definitely wouldn't consider them vintage, either.

 

[VERAULT]

wish I'd bought PCI voodoo 2s back when they were dirt cheap -_-

dirt cheap? nope.. no they werent. but I guess that all depends on the status of your disposable income at the time.

 

[bnelson]

My definition of vintage is anything before IBM came out with their PC.

 

[Zare]

It's easy to lose track of time. 20 years ago, the IBM XT was 20 years old. And that was certainly considered vintage in 2003.

Yeah but progress is not linear.
My Core 2 Q6600 is 16 years old. It has adapter of a same vintage (nVidia 9500GT) and "original" SSD upgrade from 2009. It has 8 GB of RAM.
I'm not certain about Windows 11, but latest FreeBSD or Linux run just normally and nVidia still supports these graphics. Needless to say, this machine operates like a slow contemporary computer such as a low end laptop. You don't even have to be afraid to browse the net with latest Firefox if you turn on the ad blocker. It just runs normally.

The only thing "retro" about it is the PCI slot.

Now span that 16 years between 1994-2010 or even better, 1984-2000.

Also keep in mind the mindset in technology, "then" vs "now". What do you expect to achieve if your 20 year old late 32-bit PC doesn't behave? You're certainly not going to fix electronics. If it's about software, well 32-bit ecosystem is old fashioned but supported in *nix lands, you have open source drivers. Why would you expect to find answers on a forum where people discuss their dinosaur systems?

About definition of retro, vintage, etc. It's all about the POV, but some lines must be drawn so people have an ubiquitous meaning behind the term. It either means something technical, or something human, like the age passed. I'm definitely not for the latter option. If you're a young person, doesn't mean a game from 2012 is automatically retro.

 

[Plasma]

What do you expect to achieve if your 20 year old late 32-bit PC doesn't behave? You're certainly not going to fix electronics.

Why not? I have recapped multiple Socket A motherboards.

The definition of a "dinosaur" system is constantly shifting. There are already people who consider CDs "retro."

 

[Agent Orange]

The definition of a "dinosaur" system is constantly shifting. There are already people who consider CDs "retro."

My last last 2 builds were sans CD.

 

[VERAULT]

My last last 2 builds were sans CD.

You can buy a surplus bluray burner (which is also a dvd burner) for dirt cheap now. I still burn lots of disks just for file transferring. I will add an optical drive until its not plausible.

 

[Plasma]

Wherever we decide to draw the line on vintage, someone younger than us will eventually be redrawing it. Such is life...

 

[Caluser2000]

Wherever we decide to draw the line on vintage, someone younger than us will eventually be redrawing it. Such is life...

Indeedy...

 

[Caluser2000]

I add DVD drives to all of my old shitters including an external BackPack housing attached to the lpt port on my Zenith 286LP Plus. They come in very handy.