• Please review our updated Terms and Rules here

Small estate sale collection score-homebrew computer projects, NCR keyboard plus bits and pieces

mountainking

mountainking

Experienced Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2022
Messages
187
Location
Philadelphia
Long boring part (feel free to skip to 3rd paragraph):

Ever since I was a wee lad I have been interested in electronics, I took apart everything I could get my hands growing up, owed a dozen Radio Shack experimenters and eventually I took my love for electronics and started a small business selling electronic gadgets that I design and build. So with this love of hands on electronics it should be no surprise that one of my favorite things to collect when it comes to the world of vintage computers and vintage microprocessor based technology is homebrew pieces, and homebrew computers in particular. These pieces have such a time machine effect on me, they are personal expressions like pieces of art and they are a snap shot of a particular time in the builder's life. I like all homebrew electronics but the early microprocessor based pieces are extra special to me because it seems like it must have been such an exciting time to be into electronics with the power of the microprocessor available to average electronics hobbyists and the possibility of the average person to own a computer in their home finally a reality.

I stumbled upon these two computer projects in two different listings by the same seller with high BIN prices but with make an offer option so I messaged the seller and made a deal that we were both happy with. The seller had purchased a large collection from an estate sale and mentioned that they had more mirco based pieces from the same collection so I told the seller to send me some pics of the other items as I might want them as well and the seller sent me a pic of the keyboard as well as a bunch of misc electronic parts (most of which can be seen in the pics I've included). Suffice to say I ended up purchasing everything. There were also some radio electronics items but I passed on those items, there really wasn't much that was interesting. The seller was happy that these things were going to someone who appreciated the historic significance of the micro pieces and I managed to get everything for a good price so win/win. It's pretty cool to get all of the bits and pieces from this person's (the gentleman who's estate these items came from) collection, helps paint a more complete picture and is kind of like having these things passed on to me to take care of til I'm ready to pass them on myself (to a museum, most likely).

So, the three main pieces are the two homebrew computers and the NCR keyboard. From the date codes on the ics the homebrew computers were likely built in 1977. The computer with the blue board seems pretty simple and straight forward so I'm pretty sure I will be able to get it up and running. The other computer is a different story. First of all it's much more complex build wise, I don't see any microprocessor (or memory ics) so I'm guessing that it is a TTL based computer though I still need to get a good look at the ics on the one board that's underneath another board. There are also some empty ics sockets and without any schematic it will be near impossible to figure out what goes there without some exhausting reverse engineering by someone more knowledgeable than I. Nonetheless it's pretty damn cool, definitely a labor of love build and a beautiful piece of technological art. So the keyboard....I could go on and on about it's aesthetics and the dope ass dust cover. I know I have seen similar keyboards somewhere but I wasn't able to find anything by searching "NCR keyboard". I don't know what this was used with, it obviously is intended to be interfaced with a particular piece of equipment as the long cable with plugboards at the end are the only way to interface it with anything, it doesn't even have a power cord so it must get power from whatever it plugs into which is probably some large piece of mainframe gear. I'm sure some of you know exactly what this keyboard is and what it is meant to interface with. All I know is that it uses the same key switches as those used on Don Lancaster's TVT that was pictured on the cover of RE that had the first TVT project, I believe they are Micro Switch switches/keys.

P.S.- Dig the breadboards attached to an actual breadboard!
 

Attachments

  • 20230523_161445.jpg
    20230523_161445.jpg
    2.7 MB · Views: 47
  • 20230523_204953.jpg
    20230523_204953.jpg
    1.8 MB · Views: 46
  • 20230523_171623.jpg
    20230523_171623.jpg
    2.7 MB · Views: 44
  • 20230523_170250.jpg
    20230523_170250.jpg
    4 MB · Views: 49
  • 20230523_170246.jpg
    20230523_170246.jpg
    4.2 MB · Views: 46
  • 20230523_161316.jpg
    20230523_161316.jpg
    2.8 MB · Views: 48
  • 20230523_161051.jpg
    20230523_161051.jpg
    2.6 MB · Views: 49
  • 20230523_145619.jpg
    20230523_145619.jpg
    4.1 MB · Views: 52
  • 20230523_161503.jpg
    20230523_161503.jpg
    4.2 MB · Views: 51
Last edited:
Wow. That's a score. Man I love homebrew stuff. I'm guessing the first computer is obviously an 8085 homebrew job - maybe aping the Netronics Explorer/85... the 8085 seems to have been popular for that sort of thing. No idea on the other one. The keyboard is definitely made by Microswitch, and it was used in a variety of machines, like key to tape machines made by Mohawk, which is where I got my unit from. Mine looked just like yours except it was painted dark grey. Maybe NCR OEMed them from Microswitch for some kinda machine they had. Burroughs also used the same keyboard - there was that terminal I pointed out a while back that an idiot ebay seller split apart to appeal to keyboard ghouls. The monitor for it is sitting forlorn and unwanted and I hope he gets less than zero for it. He got $1300 I think for the keyboard (sigh). I only paid $105 for mine several years ago, which I thought was outrageous. I'd buy another if I could get past the keyswitch nuts somehow.

Yeah that's some nice stuff there! Well done!
 

Attachments

  • 20150922_204634.jpg
    20150922_204634.jpg
    2 MB · Views: 17
falter said:
Wow. That's a score. Man I love homebrew stuff. I'm guessing the first computer is obviously an 8085 homebrew job - maybe aping the Netronics Explorer/85... the 8085 seems to have been popular for that sort of thing. No idea on the other one. The keyboard is definitely made by Microswitch, and it was used in a variety of machines, like key to tape machines made by Mohawk, which is where I got my unit from. Mine looked just like yours except it was painted dark grey. Maybe NCR OEMed them from Microswitch for some kinda machine they had. Burroughs also used the same keyboard - there was that terminal I pointed out a while back that an idiot ebay seller split apart to appeal to keyboard ghouls. The monitor for it is sitting forlorn and unwanted and I hope he gets less than zero for it. He got $1300 I think for the keyboard (sigh). I only paid $105 for mine several years ago, which I thought was outrageous. I'd buy another if I could get past the keyswitch nuts somehow.

Yeah that's some nice stuff there! Well done!
Click to expand...
Yeah, I feel super fortunate to have scored this lot, this type of stuff is usually beyond my budget, especially when it's auctioned off.

The 8085 was a very popular cpu for hobbyists/experimenters as well as commercial teaching devices. I have another 8085 based homebrew computer project, though from 1989, as well as a handful of 8085 based SBCs and trainers.

I actually saw your keyboard, the one you are talking about, when I was looking around for info on this one, is there a site that has info on these keyboards? What should I actually be searching for as far as keywords go? I would love to know more about them, both what they were used for as well as info on their inner workings. Man, this thing weighs a ton! Yeah, I don't get the whole keyboard fetish thing (you nailed it with that assessment, btw), I mean I know some people think our obsession with what many consider obsolete technology is odd but it's about a historic, technology movement as a whole, not just about a particular piece of equipment, a piece that does nothing on its own. It's like getting all excited about monitors. And as you have pointed out, it wouldn't be an issue if it didn't result in keyboards and computers getting split up. That being said, if one of the keyboard folks wanted to give me a grand for this keyboard I would definitely it sell, I mean I love having it in my collection but that amount of change could help fund some acquisitions that would otherwise be beyond my price range.
 
mountainking said:
Yeah, I feel super fortunate to have scored this lot, this type of stuff is usually beyond my budget, especially when it's auctioned off.

The 8085 was a very popular cpu for hobbyists/experimenters as well as commercial teaching devices. I have another 8085 based homebrew computer project, though from 1989, as well as a handful of 8085 based SBCs and trainers.

I actually saw your keyboard, the one you are talking about, when I was looking around for info on this one, is there a site that has info on these keyboards? What should I actually be searching for as far as keywords go? I would love to know more about them, both what they were used for as well as info on their inner workings. Man, this thing weighs a ton! Yeah, I don't get the whole keyboard fetish thing (you nailed it with that assessment, btw), I mean I know some people think our obsession with what many consider obsolete technology is odd but it's about a historic, technology movement as a whole, not just about a particular piece of equipment, a piece that does nothing on its own. It's like getting all excited about monitors. And as you have pointed out, it wouldn't be an issue if it didn't result in keyboards and computers getting split up. That being said, if one of the keyboard folks wanted to give me a grand for this keyboard I would definitely it sell, I mean I love having it in my collection but that amount of change could help fund some acquisitions that would otherwise be beyond my price range.
Click to expand...
Yeah - I'm actually feeling guilty about my Mark-8 and TVT purchase.. I got them for less than I typically pay for shipping. But really I shouldn't - this stuff shouldn't be fetching thousands like it does. Paying $1300 for a 60 year old keyboard is Exhibit A of excess disposable income I think.

I have an 8085 'mystery machine' - really well built unit that has all the components to be a computer, but I think is just a terminal based on a single switch on the front labelled 'local'. Also have three Explorer 85s and I think one or two other machines that use that CPU.

You probably won't find much info on the keyboard other than what's on deskthority, etc. They were definitely used as data entry/terminal keyboards by various manufacturers, and are definitely made by Microswitch. In another post here I was told the unique round keytop shape was to accomodate women's long nails. The basic keyboard is the same everywhere but the way it is wired is unique to whatever machine it was plugged into. Yours has those little PCBs, mine just has wires. I think if you were to search up 'NCR key to tape' or NCR terminal with early date like 1969 or something you might find some useful info. Might even see the odd ad in hobbyist publications offering them as surplus.

And yeah by all means, sell it if you wish to. Whatever it was used with is probably someone's dinnerware set now.
 
That keyboard also looks like the same style used in Honeywell 200/200 mainframe's console typewriter. I don't recall the colors being like that, but there aren't any color photos that survived, that I've seen. I seem the recall the Honeywell keyboards having no red, and being mostly a soft blue color (like the rest of their equipment).
 
falter said:
Yeah - I'm actually feeling guilty about my Mark-8 and TVT purchase.. I got them for less than I typically pay for shipping. But really I shouldn't - this stuff shouldn't be fetching thousands like it does. Paying $1300 for a 60 year old keyboard is Exhibit A of excess disposable income I think.

I have an 8085 'mystery machine' - really well built unit that has all the components to be a computer, but I think is just a terminal based on a single switch on the front labelled 'local'. Also have three Explorer 85s and I think one or two other machines that use that CPU.

You probably won't find much info on the keyboard other than what's on deskthority, etc. They were definitely used as data entry/terminal keyboards by various manufacturers, and are definitely made by Microswitch. In another post here I was told the unique round keytop shape was to accomodate women's long nails. The basic keyboard is the same everywhere but the way it is wired is unique to whatever machine it was plugged into. Yours has those little PCBs, mine just has wires. I think if you were to search up 'NCR key to tape' or NCR terminal with early date like 1969 or something you might find some useful info. Might even see the odd ad in hobbyist publications offering them as surplus.

And yeah by all means, sell it if you wish to. Whatever it was used with is probably someone's dinnerware set now.
Click to expand...
Wow, that's crazy that you got them so cheaply but then again I got this lot for a pretty cheap price as well. I think I commented on your Mark 8 TVT post how envious I am of that score but I think if someone is going to get that level of stuff at a cheap price it should be you, you truly love these pieces and you share them in your videos with the world rather than just hoarding them away and bragging about them. And yeah, the prices things go for now are ridiculous, so it's hard to saw what's "cheap". I blame the sellers mostly, for the crazy prices, they are so freakin greedy and as a result they have shifted the pricing to a point where the average person, like I, can hardly even dream of picking up something like say, a Cosmac Elf, and even if I had the income to make the purchase I wouldn't because it's not worth the price to me. The only reason I have any kind of collection at all is because I spend my evenings searching through ebay for hidden gems, things that are either listed in a way that they won't come up in the usual searches or just things that no one cares about but me. My best score was a homebrew computer, in an enclosure with a keyboard, and it was an auction that no one but me bid on. It's from the mid 80s so it's not an early piece but it is one of my favorite pieces. Haven't really done anything with it yet, need to get a better computer so I can dump the eprom before I try to fire it up.

That's amazing, I was wondering why in the world they would design the keytops that way, I mean they look cool but they also look like they belongs on a preschooler's toy, lol. What brand was your keyboard? I didn't really find anything on deskthority besides your post about your keyboard. Dare I post a pic on deskthority and ask if anyone knows anything about them? 😬

Well, whenever I sell a piece I always use the money to purchase another piece that I want more, that way my collection gets better and better without spending much out of pocket money. I sold a couple pieces, namely a Cosmac Elf eprom programmer card and a RCA VP keyboard to fund this lot. I didn't really want to part with the keyboard but I felt I had to and besides I still have another RCA keyboard and an RCA color graphics terminal from the same series. Sorry, I don't get the chance to talk about this stuff much so when I do I go on, lol.....😄
 
durgadas311 said:
That keyboard also looks like the same style used in Honeywell 200/200 mainframe's console typewriter. I don't recall the colors being like that, but there aren't any color photos that survived, that I've seen. I seem the recall the Honeywell keyboards having no red, and being mostly a soft blue color (like the rest of their equipment).
Click to expand...
I did a search for "Honeywell 200/200 mainframe's console typewriter" as well as some variations but I didn't find any pics of keyboards like the one I have, do you have a link or other search info I should try?

Thank you
 
About the only images of Honeywell console keyboards I have are drawings like this, from the Honeywell Equipment Operator's Manual I got off bitsavers.
1685137142772.png
 
Al Kossow said:
Web searches for things classiccmp are rapidly becoming worthless and the big guys are weighting results now against anything
that won't sell someone's product.
Click to expand...
It's ironic that computers are being used in a way that is resulting in their own past being erased....
 
durgadas311 said:
This keyboard, based on the legends, looks like it came from a cardpunch machine.
Click to expand...
I was wondering if they gave any clues to what the keyboard was interfaced with.

The long cable that comes out the back of the keyboard has 3 identical plugcards at it's end that are labelled A, B, C and I keep thinking that the keyboard was used as some time of programmer where you would open up some big (from the size of the cards) piece of computing equipment, plug the cards in, tap away and then unplug and move on to the next machine that needs programming or testing. I'm probably completely off though.
 
falter said:
You probably won't find much info on the keyboard other than what's on deskthority, etc. They were definitely used as data entry/terminal keyboards by various manufacturers, and are definitely made by Microswitch. In another post here I was told the unique round keytop shape was to accomodate women's long nails.
Click to expand...

Oddly enough NCR was still doing the "round top on a square base" keycaps into the 1980s; for an example, witness the keyboard of the NCR Decision Mate V, a hybrid CPM/MS-DOS computer from around 1983. (From that period where "MS-DOS Compatible" didn't mean "IBM PC Compatible".)

Can't help but wonder if this lower profile rendition sort of negated the "nail clearance" thing...

06.jpg
 
Eudimorphodon said:
Oddly enough NCR was still doing the "round top on a square base" keycaps into the 1980s; for an example, witness the keyboard of the NCR Decision Mate V, a hybrid CPM/MS-DOS computer from around 1983. (From that period where "MS-DOS Compatible" didn't mean "IBM PC Compatible".)

Can't help but wonder if this lower profile rendition sort of negated the "nail clearance" thing...

06.jpg
Click to expand...
Well, those keycaps look like the round area is concave which, with the lower profile, seems like a design that makes sense for fingertips, though not necessarily for finger tips with elongated nails. I really don't understand how the og Micro Switch keycaps are supposed to better accommodate long finger nails, though I also haven't really given it much thought, lol.
 
mountainking said:
I was wondering if they gave any clues to what the keyboard was interfaced with.

The long cable that comes out the back of the keyboard has 3 identical plugcards at it's end that are labelled A, B, C and I keep thinking that the keyboard was used as some time of programmer where you would open up some big (from the size of the cards) piece of computing equipment, plug the cards in, tap away and then unplug and move on to the next machine that needs programming or testing. I'm probably completely off though.
Click to expand...
The cable and PCB look original to me, and look like the kind of thing punched card equipment had. Keys like "DUP", "REL" (release), "SKP", "NUM"/"LTR", and the locations of the digit keys all look very similar to original IBM keypunch devices. My suspicion is that this was either A) keypunch with a small memory, where the card is not punched until you're satisfied with all 80 columns; or else B) a non-paper device, perhaps using floppy disk or the like, but the UI is kept as close to cardpunches so that retraining of operators is not needed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top