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Tandy 6000 binary-math Basic?

Bruce Tomlin

Bruce Tomlin

Experienced Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
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Location
San Antonio, TX
So far I've only found one source of the Tandy 6000 Xenix Basic, and it uses BCD math. I know that the Macintosh version had both BCD and Binary versions, but unfortunately they were arranged differently enough that I can't just do a side-by-side comparison to find out what is different.

Does anyone know of a disk image or whatever that has a Tandy 6000 binary-math Basic?
 
Bruce Tomlin said:
So far I've only found one source of the Tandy 6000 Xenix Basic, and it uses BCD math. I know that the Macintosh version had both BCD and Binary versions, but unfortunately they were arranged differently enough that I can't just do a side-by-side comparison to find out what is different.

Does anyone know of a disk image or whatever that has a Tandy 6000 binary-math Basic?
Click to expand...
Maybe apples & oranges? BCD is base 10 and simple binary is base 2.
 
Did you even understand my question? Microsoft created versions of MS-Basic where some used binary math routines, and some where they used BCD math routines. (For instance, the Model 100 is an 8080 version with BCD math routines, while most 8080 versions use binary math.)

I am trying to put together a generic binary-math version of MS-Basic for the Motorola 68000. I've found a Tandy 6000 version with BCD math routines in it, and now I'm looking (hoping) for a version with binary math routines, and I don't even know yet if they actually made one. So far, the only 68000 version of MS-Basic with binary math that I am aware of is the old Macintosh version, and that code is a mess because of all the necessary code segments, and also because of all the other stuff that they needed to cram into it support the Macintosh Toolbox routines.

Code: 
D84E0:    DC.B    "TRS-80 Model 16 BASIC",$0A
    DC.B    "Version 1.02.00 [Decimal Math]",$0A
    DC.B    "Copyright (c) 1982 by Microsoft",$0A
    DC.B    "Created 27-Feb-1984",$0A
    DC.B    $00
 
Bruce Tomlin said:
Did you even understand my question? Microsoft created versions of MS-Basic where some used binary math routines, and some where they used BCD math routines. (For instance, the Model 100 is an 8080 version with BCD math routines, while most 8080 versions use binary math.)

I am trying to put together a generic binary-math version of MS-Basic for the Motorola 68000. I've found a Tandy 6000 version with BCD math routines in it, and now I'm looking (hoping) for a version with binary math routines, and I don't even know yet if they actually made one. So far, the only 68000 version of MS-Basic with binary math that I am aware of is the old Macintosh version, and that code is a mess because of all the necessary code segments, and also because of all the other stuff that they needed to cram into it support the Macintosh Toolbox routines.

Code: 
D84E0:    DC.B    "TRS-80 Model 16 BASIC",$0A
    DC.B    "Version 1.02.00 [Decimal Math]",$0A
    DC.B    "Copyright (c) 1982 by Microsoft",$0A
    DC.B    "Created 27-Feb-1984",$0A
    DC.B    $00
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Actually I don't because I'm slightly retarded. Have your looked into BASIC09? You probably have but I thought I would ask anyway.
 
Why would he want 6809 basic if he's looking for 68000 basic?
Try to find a copy of TRSDOS-16 and see if the basic on there is for the 68000 or for the z80. I can't seem to find TRSDOS-16 anywhere.
 
I've been taking some time the past few days to write a parser for .IMD images*, and that is correct, 26-6105 appears to only contain Model II Basic.

It is 26-6457 that contains the decimal math Model 16 Basic 1.02.00

(* I refuse to run DOS crap just to extract stuff from those, and .IMD seems to be infuriatingly tied with some rather janky C code.)
 
Bruce Tomlin said:
I've been taking some time the past few days to write a parser for .IMD images*, and that is correct, 26-6105 appears to only contain Model II Basic.

It is 26-6457 that contains the decimal math Model 16 Basic 1.02.00
Click to expand...
That's the basic interpreter for Xenix. I think those were the only 68000 specific operating systems. Was CP/M 68K ever released? Maybe look at the basic in there.
 
Bruce Tomlin said:
I've been taking some time the past few days to write a parser for .IMD images*, and that is correct, 26-6105 appears to only contain Model II Basic.

It is 26-6457 that contains the decimal math Model 16 Basic 1.02.00

(* I refuse to run DOS crap just to extract stuff from those, and .IMD seems to be infuriatingly tied with some rather janky C code.)
Click to expand...
Do you have a working inspection utility for Model II TRSDOS and XENIX IMD images?
 
kb2syd said:
That's the basic interpreter for Xenix. I think those were the only 68000 specific operating systems. Was CP/M 68K ever released? Maybe look at the basic in there.
Click to expand...
CP/M 68K is in the model2archive.
 
Tandy/RadioShack requested {demanded} the Binary Coded Decimal math package for the TRS-XENIX MBASIC as a competitive advantage for business application accuracy.

So to answer the original question, was there a binary format floating points for TRS-XENIX, AFAIK, Microsoft created BCD math only for TRS-XENIX. TRSDOS BASIC had binary math, TRSXENIX MBASIC had BCD, less confusing for Tandy's marketing?

CP/M-68K for the Model 16/16B/6000 booted off a Z80 CP/M (P&T, Lifeboat, Aton or DR CP/M+). None included BASIC 68K. Two 68K-Z80 BASIC hybrid DOSs: CP/M-68K on top of CP/M-80 with BASIC-80; TRSDOS-16 (68K) on top of TRSDOS and TRSDOS-II with TRS80 BASIC. All these used BASIC on Z80 with the Microsoft Binary Format (same as GW-BASIC through Altair BASIC 1988-1975). Ofcourse, there was DR CP/M CBASIC compiler with its own binary math but again, it is intel 8080 not MC68K.

Interesting tid bit, the TRS-XENIX MBASIC BCD format (not the actual 68K coding) was first designed by the late Paul Allen, MS cofounder, for the TRS-80 Model 100; again to satisfy Tandy/RadioShack demand for BCD math on the TRS80. He actualy coded the 32bit single precision and 64bit double precision BCD in i8085 assembly in 1982 for the Model 100. {See pages 167-168 of his excellent book, The Idea Man}.
 
In 1979, we ran an 8085 multi-user BASIC with standard BCD 14 digit + 1 byte precision. I wrote the code, recoded in in 1980 to be suitable for M80 assembly; it was also used in a couple of Sorcim products--and I still have the source. Don't recall what the CBASIC precision was, but I think it was about the same time frame.
 
For what it's worth, what I'm really interested in is any 68000 version of MS-BASIC that I don't have. (I already have the Tandy 6000 decimal math, and the Macintosh versions). After finding a github stash full of IMD images, I'm not so sure that Tandy ever had the binary version. I'm kind of annoyed that they probably actively avoided having it.

Maybe some random Japanese 68000 computer might have had a version of MS-BASIC?

As for the Model 100, back in my long-ago (mid-'80s) college days I had a class where I had to write an 8080 emulator, so when I was done I ran the Model 100 ROM on it and promptly found out that my DAA instruction was broken.
 
Chuck(G) said:
In 1979, we ran an 8085 multi-user BASIC with standard BCD 14 digit + 1 byte precision. I wrote the code, recoded in in 1980 to be suitable for M80 assembly; it was also used in a couple of Sorcim products--and I still have the source. Don't recall what the CBASIC precision was, but I think it was about the same time frame.
Click to expand...
Amazing what you did with 8bit and < 64K ! In reality, far less than the 64K since you also wanted room for programs+data :)
 
Bruce Tomlin said:
For what it's worth, what I'm really interested in is any 68000 version of MS-BASIC that I don't have. (I already have the Tandy 6000 decimal math, and the Macintosh versions).
Click to expand...
You got the lion share of 68K BASICs. Sun workstation initially used 68K, there was "bwbasic" (ANSI X3.60 minimal BASIC) public domain but not MS-BASIC. AT&T UnixPC, another 68010 machine, it had "bwbasic". Again not MBASIC.

You all probably know this already, but for the sake of new readers, MS started XENIX for the DEC LSI-11/23 in 1980. Knowing how in the 70's, MS golden goose was MBASIC, they would have ported it for the LSI-11 XENIX. They did not market XENIX directly but to resellers. Hope this info might help targeting your searchs on your quest for other 68K MBASIC. See the concise History of Xenix for more of the Xenix saga.
 
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