TI Color Graphics Controller Card

[onesimus]

Hey guys, I recently bought a 5170 which came with this pretty cool card in it. As the title states, it's a TI Color Graphics Controller that was apparently primarily meant for the IBM Professional Graphics monitor or TI's version of it. I was perusing through the manual because I'm having trouble with my other graphics cards and was thinking maybe it would be possible to use this with my CGA monitor. Well, I found some excerpts from the manual that seem to indicate that it can indeed work with a CGA monitor. This thing has a lot of power, but though the jumper settings are right in front of me in the manual, I can't seem to get it configured correctly or even fully understand all of it. I'm not too savvy on all of these video standards and such, whether I need positive and negative sync and so on. I'm pretty lost in that department. I'm going to include in this post a link to the manual and a screenshots of some of the excerpts that I'm talking about and was wondering if you guys may have any hints on how to get this outputting on my CGA monitor. The jumper settings are in section 3.1 and 3.9 indicates the pinouts and the hint of compatibility with the monitor I have.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, it would be awesome to be able to actually use this thing.

EDIT: I found a possible configuration for the normal IBM monitor in the manual. I tried it, but unfortunately it's not working any better at all. I'll include that screenshot as well.

TI_Color_Graphics_Controller_Board_Users_Guide_1986 TI Color Graphics Controller Board Users Guide 1986

User Manual: TI_Color_Graphics_Controller_Board_Users_Guide_1986

usermanual.wiki

 

[eswan]

It looks like that card was meant to be used as a secondary display, alongside a cga or mda interface. I don't think anything will happen with it without a program or drivers specifically written for it.

This part in the manual makes it sound like it won't work in a system with more than 256k of ram:

"Make certain the host computer has 256K bytes of system RAM; otherwise, system RAM will overlap CGC RAM, and the demonstration will not operate. The CGC is memory-mapped from 50000h to AFFFFh."
Although I think there's a jumper to disable that.

 

[onesimus]

It looks like that card was meant to be used as a secondary display, alongside a cga or mda interface. I don't think anything will happen with it without a program or drivers specifically written for it.

This part in the manual makes it sound like it won't work in a system with more than 256k of ram:

"Make certain the host computer has 256K bytes of system RAM; otherwise, system RAM will overlap CGC RAM, and the demonstration will not operate. The CGC is memory-mapped from 50000h to AFFFFh."
Although I think there's a jumper to disable that.

Good to know. I did see one part in the manual that talks about a certain jumper settings for systems with 512k, I tried that setting, but still nothing. Also, the system did have a cga card in it as well when I received it, so whatever organization had it definitely was using it as secondary. Thanks!

 

[kantexplain]

Configured from the factory it is set for 640 x 480. Try a vga monitor.

TI had earlier/later boards (TIGA) which had a lot of capability and photo realism. And were based on the TMS34010? and such. Maybe that's what you got. And unless it has cga emulation like an IBM PGC (doubtful) or has a bios compatible with vga (basically impossible), you will need drivers specifically written for it.

Keep us posted. This is a very seldom seen item.

 

[onesimus]

Configured from the factory it is set for 640 x 480. Try a vga monitor.

TI had earlier/later boards (TIGA) which had a lot of capability and photo realism. And were based on the TMS34010? and such. Maybe that's what you got. And unless it has cga emulation like an IBM PGC (doubtful) or has a bios compatible with vga (basically impossible), you will need drivers specifically written for it.

Keep us posted. This is a very seldom seen item.

Well, there is no regular 15 pin VGA port, only 9 pin. Someone earlier in the thread (whose posts are now gone for some reason) mentioned that I could perhaps wire a specific cable up from a vga monitor to the de-9 port. I suppose the easiest way to do it would be to get a scrap vga and scrap older style cable and splice them together after finding the pinouts. I'm pretty interested in messing with this thing at this point that is looking like the route I may have to go. Would totally love to get the thing working. I read in the manual that there is a jumper configuration which is supposed to let you put CGA out to regular PC monitors as opposed to the PGC, but I tried that jumper configuration and unless I got it wrong, it didn't seem to work. The ports are putting out signal some signal though as it can be seen when I turn it on with the monitor attached so I don't think there are any hardware problems.

At some point soon I'll try to splice a cable together and see what happens. Will definitely keep you guys posted at this point.

 

[Plasma]

You are not seeing any output because the card needs to be initialized (section 5.1). There is sample code in the manual for 640x480 output, but unfortunately not 640x200 which you need for CGA. It seems that there was some included software, presumably with source code, that detailed those steps for other modes.

You should be able to use the 640x480 mode with a VGA monitor as long as it supports composite sync at 30.5 khz. The adapter would look like this:

P3       VGA
1 Red    1  Red
2 Green  2  Green
3 Blue   3  Blue
4 CSync  13 HSync
5 Mode   (none)
6 Gnd    6 Gnd
7 Gnd    7 Gnd
8 Gnd    8 Gnd
9 Gnd    5+10 Gnd

 

[onesimus]

You are not seeing any output because the card needs to be initialized (section 5.1). There is sample code in the manual for 640x480 output, but unfortunately not 640x200 which you need for CGA. It seems that there was some included software, presumably with source code, that detailed those steps for other modes.

You should be able to use the 640x480 mode with a VGA monitor as long as it supports composite sync at 30.5 khz. The adapter would look like this:

P3       VGA
1 Red    1  Red
2 Green  2  Green
3 Blue   3  Blue
4 CSync  13 HSync
5 Mode   (none)
6 Gnd    6 Gnd
7 Gnd    7 Gnd
8 Gnd    8 Gnd
9 Gnd    5+10 Gnd

Awesome, thanks for the pinouts. Out of curiosity, would the 640x480 mode be recognized by programs/games/whatever as VGA or would it be some sort of frankenstein of other graphics standards? Is this signal, as well as the signal for the PGC, essentially proto-VGA?

Also, man it would be pretty awesome if someone ever came across the software for this. I saw a manual for sale online recently, but it was only the manual and that is online anyway. This came installed in an AT with both it and a CGA card installed, so it was almost definitely being initialized/ran by some professional type of program. Within the next couble of days I'm going to try to wire this cable up for sure. Should just be able to use a 9 pin serial cable and gender changer with a vga cable or something to that effect.

 

[Eudimorphodon]

Awesome, thanks for the pinouts. Out of curiosity, would the 640x480 mode be recognized by programs/games/whatever as VGA or would it be some sort of frankenstein of other graphics standards?

This thing is completely and utterly proprietary; as implemented on this card it’s barely PC compatible. No off the shelf software is going to recognize it. The card is basically a development kit for the graphics chipset, not really a baked product.

I’m getting a serious case of Deja Vu; wasn’t there a thread about this exact card like a month ago? I remember tossing out the recipe for a VGA pinout adapter and pointing out that according to the jumpers you shouldn’t even need a monitor with composite sync, that’s adjustable…

Edit: not my imagination. We had this exact conversation already.

https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/isa-archeology.1244681/

 

[onesimus]

This thing is completely and utterly proprietary; as implemented on this card it’s barely PC compatible. No off the shelf software is going to recognize it. The card is basically a development kit for the graphics chipset, not really a baked product.

I’m getting a serious case of Deja Vu; wasn’t there a thread about this exact card like a month ago? I remember tossing out the recipe for a VGA pinout adapter and pointing out that according to the jumpers you shouldn’t even need a monitor with composite sync, that’s adjustable…

Edit: not my imagination. We had this exact conversation already.

https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/isa-archeology.1244681/

yeah I was wondering why your posts weren't showing up in this thread. as far as I know, it's the same thread and someone bumped it and restarted the discussion.

 

[Plasma]

No, you've got 2 threads going. Here is Eudimorphodon's post about VGA output in your other thread.

If you set up P3 for separate sync as he describes, then the cable would be:

P3       VGA
1 Red    1  Red
2 Green  2  Green
3 Blue   3  Blue
4 VSync  14 VSync
5 HSync  13 HSync
6 Gnd    6 Gnd
7 Gnd    7 Gnd
8 Gnd    8 Gnd
9 Gnd    5+10 Gnd

 

[kantexplain]

Awesome, thanks for the pinouts. Out of curiosity, would the 640x480 mode be recognized by programs/games/whatever as VGA or would it be some sort of frankenstein of other graphics standards? Is this signal, as well as the signal for the PGC, essentially proto-VGA?

Also, man it would be pretty awesome if someone ever came across the software for this. I saw a manual for sale online recently, but it was only the manual and that is online anyway. This came installed in an AT with both it and a CGA card installed, so it was almost definitely being initialized/ran by some professional type of program. Within the next couble of days I'm going to try to wire this cable up for sure. Should just be able to use a 9 pin serial cable and gender changer with a vga cable or something to that effect.

It has no relation to VGA, but predates it. IIRC my DEC 486 pizza box had a later relative of this chip. That emulated vga or had ancillary vga circuitry. All I know is I'm sorry a) I sabotaged the unit, and b) I tossed it. I could plug fixed frequency 19" and larger monitors directly into it, and get at least basic VGA functionality, perhaps all VGA modes, and more.

You likely won't find much for it out there. And uber cool item nevertheless. I wish I had 1.

 

[onesimus]

It has no relation to VGA, but predates it. IIRC my DEC 486 pizza box had a later relative of this chip. That emulated vga or had ancillary vga circuitry. All I know is I'm sorry a) I sabotaged the unit, and b) I tossed it. I could plug fixed frequency 19" and larger monitors directly into it, and get at least basic VGA functionality, perhaps all VGA modes, and more.

You likely won't find much for it out there. And uber cool item nevertheless. I wish I had 1.

These two quotes had given me hope of using it for a while...

"The Color graphics Controller Board has two DB9 video output connectors, P2 and P3. Connector P2 outputs an RGBI signal and connector P3 outputs an RGB signal at 1 volt peak to peak with 75-ohm drive capability. Both connectors have positive and negative horizontal syncs and composite sync so that you can interface to a variety of monitors. The P2 pinout supports a TI or an IBM Personal Computer color graphics display digital color monitor with no cable modification, and the P3 pinout supports the IBM professional graphics display analog color monitor with no cable change. Other monitors can be interfaced easily by making your own cable."

and a couple pages later gives jumper configurations saying:

"HOST: IBM PC
MONITOR: IBM Personal Computer Color Display
OUTPUT PORT: P2
Software:TMDS3440879102
JUMPERS:
J01 - 2 to 3
J02 - 2 to 3
J03 - 1 to 2
J04 - 1 to 2
J05 - 1 to 2
J06 - Not Connected"

But I'm guessings this means it simply supports the monitor but not necessarily the color standard or whatever that stuff like CGA/EGA/VGA/etc. is and you still need the requisite software like some have pointed out. Especially since it lists software you need in the jumper section.

 

[Eudimorphodon]

But I'm guessings this means it simply supports the monitor but not necessarily the color standard or whatever that stuff like CGA/EGA/VGA/etc. is and you still need the requisite software like some have pointed ou

Yes, it's *solely* saying you can use these monitors (or others, my vague recollection was that the manual suggested you could possibly support additional monitors with different scan frequencies by changing crystals) for the display. Granted the manual doesn't explicitly say the card *isn't* compatible with some existing video standard, but it's pretty clear about describing the completely novel architecture of the thing, which is *nothing* like a standard PC video card.

 

[onesimus]

Yes, it's *solely* saying you can use these monitors (or others, my vague recollection was that the manual suggested you could possibly support additional monitors with different scan frequencies by changing crystals) for the display. Granted the manual doesn't explicitly say the card *isn't* compatible with some existing video standard, but it's pretty clear about describing the completely novel architecture of the thing, which is *nothing* like a standard PC video card.

Since that's the case, I'm essentially left with reaching out to TI and seeing if they have some sort of software archive that perhaps has the software listed above contained in it. IF, and it's a big IF, I successfully hear back from them I'll definitely report back and archive it.

Thanks for all the replies, they've been quite helpful.

 

[Chuck(G)]

My recollection is that there are no generic drivers for these; application-specific drivers were available for packages such as AutoCAD.

 

[Plasma]

I think you are still misunderstanding. There is no software that will make this card compatible with programs expecting a CGA/EGA/VGA. The only thing the software will do is set the correct resolution to sync with your monitor (page 3-12).

There is code already in the manual to set the 640x480 mode, so if you hook up a VGA monitor and run the init code, you should get a picture (probably random pixels). But that's all you will get unless you write your own code to display something else. It's really only useful if you are interested in programming an obscure graphics chip.

 

[onesimus]

My recollection is that there are no generic drivers for these; application-specific drivers were available for packages such as AutoCAD.

I think you are still misunderstanding. There is no software that will make this card compatible with programs expecting a CGA/EGA/VGA. The only thing the software will do is set the correct resolution to sync with your monitor (page 3-12).

There is code already in the manual to set the 640x480 mode, so if you hook up a VGA monitor and run the init code, you should get a picture (probably random pixels). But that's all you will get unless you write your own code to display something else. It's really only useful if you are interested in programming an obscure graphics chip.

Yeah I've given up hope on getting this thing to work in any reasonable way for my purposes. I'm just hoping to get the software from TI and archive it just so in case if I ever decide to let someone else have it who had the skills to actually put it to use (if they wanted to) could and just for preservation in general. I'm not thinking "Oh, if I get the software I'm going to be able to do X, Y, or Z."

I actually had a decent discussion with the guys at TI through their chat. Got my chat escalated beyond just basic help and spoke to a technical tech support guy and they are supposedly looking into it and provided me with a case number, saying they'd follow up through email. Not figuring on much coming of it though.

 

[Eudimorphodon]

I think you are still misunderstanding. There is no software that will make this card compatible with programs expecting a CGA/EGA/VGA. The only thing the software will do is set the correct resolution to sync with your monitor (page 3-12).

If you were a huge glutton for punishment you might be able to write a driver that could translate 8514/A "Adapter Interface" API calls to this chip, which would *theoretically* let you run a tiny subset of DOS software that could drive the 8514/A via that route? But that's not much of an achievement, completely dumb VGA cards could do that. (My Trident TVGA9000 came with an 8514/A emulator TSR on the driver disk. It was an ideal way to take an already incredibly slow SVGA card and make it just that much worse.) That said, this card only has 256K of RAM on it, so the only standard 8514/A mode it would be able to do is a 640x480 16 color mode, which, yeah, would be missing the point pretty hard.