Way off topic--beer

[Chuck(G)]

I was over at a neighbor's house the past weekend and I was surprised to see two full-sized refrigerators operating outside his house on his deck. One was converted into a kegerator, with two kegs in it--the other was for storage of bottled beer.

To me, this represented a huge waste of electric power, but I didn't comment on it.

Personally, I like a bottle of good room-temperature stout, but I guess I'm in the minority. What prompted this post was a question that popped up in my mind:

Is it necessary to constantly refrigerate a keg of beer, or can the keg be kept at ambient temperature and the beer flash-chilled just as it's being dispensed?

There may be an opportunity in this for some inventor.

 

[Unknown_K]

I would think it depends on the beer. Wasn't coors advertising their beer was kept cold from the factory to the store coolers to keep it tasting great?

Refrigerators are insulated pretty well, if you keep the doors closed and the contents are cooled to operating temperature the units don't suck up that much power. Besides whats the difference between one of us running an old server or two in the house and him chilling his beer on the porch?

I prefer chilled beer (bottles).

For draft beer:

What temperature should my draft beer be kept?
Draft beer is not pasteurized, so it must be kept cold, preferably between 38 and 40 degrees Fahrenheit. Temperatures above 45 degrees Fahrenheit could turn your beer sour and cloudy. So, keep it cool!

Over Chilling
Excessive low temperatures may cause hazy and cloudy beer, particularly when beer lies for a long period of time. Maintain refrigerator temperature at 36° to 40°F.

 

[barythrin]

Where the hell is Terry?! ;-) He'd love to help moderate this thread. I'm not sure about the benefits of chilling other than if there was contamination you would slow the growth of bacteria, but that's based on oxygen mixing into the brew with other contaminants.

I think the true cold beer/alcohol is a culture preference (though I'm semi-talking out of my arse since I haven't been elsewhere I just hear it). In other countries I hear it's more common to drink and keep your beer at room temperature which throws off a lot of US college kids who can't handle a beer unless it's close to freezing. However close the colder the beverage the less taste it has so I think it's partially that yes, a lot of lower alcohol content US beers taste like crap, so you want them cold in order to hide the taste. A more mature beer with fuller flavor would be better enjoyed at room temperature still which is how I used to drink all my beer. It also helped that friends who didn't appreciate the brew wouldn't come over and kill it like they would if it was in the fridge.

 

[Jorg]

Personally I'd never consider a topic about beer to be off-topic, ever.

It's true though, some beers MUST be chilled - otherwise you might taste them.
Coors probably is a good example for that.

 

[Lorne]

This one pretty well covers it from my point of view:
http://beerutopia.com/2008/06/27/what-temperature-is-your-beer/

Americans tend to prefer cold beer, which like Jorg says is probably because if it's American beer you probably don't want to taste it.
A Bass or Guiness on the other hand, you shouldn't really drink when it's cold.

I keep my Bass ale in the fridge but that's only because room temperature here in AZ is 80F for about 8 months of the year. If the t'stat is set any lower than that, then we'd really be talking about some energy usage.

 

[mark66j]

An important thread, indeed!

I think I've heard that Pilseners (e.g. Bud) are always meant to be served chilled, but I don't like them much anyway. Something like Guiness should be "room temperature" but I agree that if room temperature is much above 70 all brews need a bit of a chill. (I've never been to Ireland but I doubt the weather gets as hot in the summer as most of the U.S. does). And in hot weather, it seems like cold beer makes more sense, but it's best to pick the lighter summer brews for that.

All beer of any kind goes bad faster the higher the temperature, so in hot weather I think all brews should be kept cold and (if necessary) left to warm up to the right temp.

 

[Chuck(G)]

Lorne, I like that article and agree with it completely.

On my dog walks, I regularly traverse about a 1/4 mile each way on a through-road (i.e. not a dead-end). This is what I call "bottle and can weather" in that this time of year is when you start discovering that the slobs have begun throwing cans and bottles on the roadside. I pick them (and other litter) up to do my part.

What's shocking though is the crap that these people drink! Huge cans of Bud Light, all sorts of malt liquor and "kiddie beers"--flavored malt liquor. I have yet to see a Guiness bottle on the roadside and I've been traversing this same section of road daily for 20 years. What's scary is finding the occasional vodka bottle--you hope the driver isn't on the road at the same time you are.

So maybe you are what you drink...

 

[nige the hippy]

Proper British beer should be served at a little below room temperature i.e. cellar temperature, ideally somewhere between 12 & 14 C (54-57 F)
variations in temperature tend to stop the beer from clearing (probably due to convection).

this is what CAMRA (Campaign for Real Ale) have to say about it....
http://www.camra.org.uk/page.aspx?o=180651

If outside temperatures are too high, he could either super-insulate the cold parts of the fridge, so once it's cold, it stays cold, or do what the beer-tent people do at some festivals etc, and drape a towel over the barrel, and keep it wet, either through capillary action with a couple of pots of water at the bottom, or a dripping tap over the top. Or put up with the fuel costs!

 

[nige the hippy]

It's true though, some beers MUST be chilled - otherwise you might taste them.
Coors probably is a good example for that.

Coors have taken over the Bass (like the fish - not the music) & Burton breweries in Burton-on-Trent (i.e. beer Mecca - if I can say that!), they've kept the "museum" part of it up which is good, but done a really heavy handed re-branding of everything, and it feels terrible. I don't think it's malicious, in fact they seem supportive, but I don't think they understand what they've got, beer to Coors is a commodity, to the average british real-ale drinker, every pint is an act of worship.

.... stop press it's old news & I take it back.....

research... it's all changed!

http://www.beer-pages.com/protz/features/burton-museum.htm

Excellent!

 

[Anonymous Freak]

Proper British beer should be served at a little below room temperature i.e. cellar temperature, ideally somewhere between 12 & 14 C (54-57 F)
variations in temperature tend to stop the beer from clearing (probably due to convection).

Yup, I fully agree with you on that one. My general rule of thumb for beer is "it has to be darker going in than coming out." A good Porter or Stout at just below room temperature is perfect to me.

And I'd have to respectfully disagree with Burton-on-Trent being "beer Mecca". Portland Oregon is DEFINITELY "beer Mecca". If you are a beer aficionado, you *MUST* visit Portland. Preferably this weekend, during the Oregon Brewers Festival; although last weekend during the Portland International Beerfest would have been acceptable. The excellent "ZooBrew" last month was worth going to, also. As is Oktoberfest in September... Heck, you should just stay in Portland from June to September and go to the dozen or so beer festivals that happen during that time...

 

[barythrin]

I like (well used to more-so when I was younger) to drink and support Micro-brews but mostly personal choice although they tend to taste better as well. What does bug me is when you see a bunch of these microbrew looking names but if you really look they're Anheuser-Busch or another crap beer maker. But I do admit, I'll drink a local beer when visiting another state if there is one available. Down here it's Shiner which most folks like. I do think a lot of the local brews though can also be drank at room temperature (or just below).

That is certainly another valid point though, I room temperature beer on the coast of California right now would be around 70f, room temperature here would be around 86f, while in Europe it may be a much nicer cool taste which would be pretty good too. Man I need a beer now. lol

Oh there are a few though which are interesting takes on the type. Sake of course can be served either chilled or hot, if it's a GOOD sake I'd recommend hot, if it's cheaper then cold to prevent too much taste (it honestly just tastes like a mild vodka to me). Meade is also an interesting one.. I find it very good warm in the winter although a few light weight bud light drinkers thought it just tasted like warm wine (which I can't see how they thought that since it's a honey based drink, and you can add a spice pack with cinnamon and apple spice which then it tastes like a warm cider.

 

[Jorg]

That is certainly another valid point though, I room temperature beer on the coast of California right now would be around 70f, room temperature here would be around 86f, while in Europe it may be a much nicer cool taste which would be pretty good too. Man I need a beer now. lol

Current room temperature in Europe is 92F

I mostly drink 'local' beers too. When in the US, you can find Becks and the like but I keep with Sam Adams most of the time. Occasionaly a Bass, but I think thats import?

 

[glitch]

Having just graduated from college, I'm glad to be away from the cheap beer crowd. No more having to /smell/ Keystone, Natural Light, or the Beast at barbecues!

Here in Troy, we've got Brown's Brewing, which produces some really good stuff. As above, I'd rather support what's local, and when I travel to different places, I generally see what's available from the local brewers. Of course, room temperature here is in the 80's as well, so most thing that come home get a few minutes in the freezer compartment before drinking.

On meade, it really depends on what you're making. I've brewed my own, and I liked citrus-y meade closer to room temperature. I also made a batch of meade flavored with apples and allowed it to naturally carbonate, and I found I liked it better at slightly lower temperatures than room temperature. We did heat it one year for Thanksgiving, using hot stones dropped into a punchbowl of meade -- that was /very/ good, but it was a spicier meade with cloves, cinnamon and nutmeg fermented in.

 

[Chuck(G)]

Oh there are a few though which are interesting takes on the type. Sake of course can be served either chilled or hot, if it's a GOOD sake I'd recommend hot, if it's cheaper then cold to prevent too much taste (it honestly just tastes like a mild vodka to me). Meade is also an interesting one.. I find it very good warm in the winter although a few light weight bud light drinkers thought it just tasted like warm wine (which I can't see how they thought that since it's a honey based drink, and you can add a spice pack with cinnamon and apple spice which then it tastes like a warm cider.

Reminds me of the time a friend and I went out for a good meal in Minneapolis many years ago. Great steak, and we ordered a bottle of burgundy to go with it (this was in January). The waitress comes back with the bottle, uncorks it, and tries to pour some in a glass for tasting. Nothing comes out.

After a bit of headscratching, she says "I know what's wrong with this--it's froze". She then attempts to break out the ice plug with a knife. We asked her to forget about the wine and just bring some tea. At that time, if you asked for a room-temperature (which, back during the OPEC embargo, was probably about 50F) bottle, they looked at you as if you were out of your mind.

 

[saundby]

The rule I learned when brewing was that you serve it at the same temperature you ferment it.

Stouts, true ales, and meads are brewed using a top-fermenting yeast which does its thing at room temperature or slightly below. They should be served room temperature.

Lagers and bitters are fermented chilled with a bottom-fermenting yeast, so should be served chilled.

If a beer is canned or bottled, then the intermediate temperatures between bottling and serving don't matter, for normal storage temperatures. The same goes for sealed kegs. For "open" containers it should be kept cold to keep the carbon dioxide in solution to keep it from going flat, or otherwise changing the flavor through evaporation of the alcohol.

At one place I worked, we used to save money by purchasing warm beer (it cost more from the cooler at the place we bought it), then we threw it in the environmental chambers to bring it down to temp with liquid nitrogen (for that we cooled, some of us drank warm stout but most drank chilled lager). We could cool a case in about five minutes. It drank just fine.

 

[Chuck(G)]

So, for those folks who buy a pony keg, one might as well chill the beer just as it comes out of the tap?

About all I brew is root beer and ginger ale. Real ginger ale is very different from the store-bought stuff--it's fermented, rather than carbonated water with flavorings. Root beer I brew with an extract, yeast and sugar.

 

[Ole Juul]

I've probably spilt more booze on my tie than most or yous have drunk. I've also got a lot of opinions on the matter. That said, I haven't had a drink in over 20 years so none of them count. Which I guess means I can say just about anything I like now.

I agree with the people who point out that a cold beer is just to cover up the taste. Some people just don't like beer and just want something refreshing (so called) that will get them drunk. Around here most people put them back like tums. One every few minutes until it's time to go home.

When I used to drink I preferred the less commercial beers, when available, and slightly above room temperature if possible. Really, the refreshing sparkle of a slightly warm beer is worth learning to appreciate. You get ALL the flavour, and that is a good test of the quality of the beer.

Some of the big companies that make really thin beer like to advertise that "it's the water" and I certainly agree. Although it would be a little more clear if they phrased it slightly differently: "If you like the water - you'll like the beer".

When I was much younger, and more of a jerk than I am now, I used to drink an Austrian beer called Steffl. This was many years before the micro breweries and one had to drink "imported" beer to get anything acceptable. Anyway, I used to enjoy ordering it in restaurants "off the shelf" which made me a real snob because the average place didn't know what that meant. So I would explain that I would like it warm, if possible. I knew they would probably just put it under the hot water tap or something but that suited me fine. Here is where the "jerk"
part comes in. I would wait for them to open it in front of me and see the reaction. You see, Steffl has an nourmous head, and when warm it has to be opened veeeery sloooowly or it hits the ceiling like warm champagne. LOL I'm a much nicer person now - that works better.

PS: A decent beer, even commercial, doesn't keep well. I would think that almost all beers should be kept at a lower temperature if you want them to keep. Beer, like baking, should really be drunk when ready. I remember the Danish sailors coming to Vancouver in the old days (70s) and complaining about the beer on-board. The trip to Vancouver is through the Suez and by the time they get here the beer is getting to be several months old. That was not acceptable to a Dane in those days. Tuborg and Carlsberg are probably not the same quality any more anyway - I wouldn't know.

 

[Chuck(G)]

PS: A decent beer, even commercial, doesn't keep well. I would think that almost all beers should be kept at a lower temperature if you want them to keep. Beer, like baking, should really be drunk when ready. I remember the Danish sailors coming to Vancouver in the old days (70s) and complaining about the beer on-board. The trip to Vancouver is through the Suez and by the time they get here the beer is getting to be several months old. That was not acceptable to a Dane in those days.

Must be where the Danish taste for akvavit comes from. For those uninitiated to this devil's brew, really good akvavit must be aged by being carried on a ship and cross the equator twice. One of the worst drunks I've ever had in my life was with a bunch of Swedes in Oakland eating boiled crayfish and washing it down with very cold akvavit. My glass kept refilling itself and people kept making toasts... Oooh... :mrgreen:

 

[SamTHorn]

I love the Kokanee beer. I used to drink this like water back in high school.

 

[Micom 2000]

I was seriously into making my own beer in the 60s. Nowadays most people use kits where it is much like making instant coffee, only aging it a bit from what I know.
All the ingredients are added to them beforehand, like a cake mix. At my time, although the purists of the time demanded that one malt their own barley, I used a british malt syrup (John Bull ?), added my own hops, corn sugar, and made my own starter with a quality yeast, The starter was saved if it was particularly good and stored in the fridge, occasionally feeding the yeasties with a tiny bit of sugar to keep them alive.

Everything used in beer-making must be scrupulously sterilized. I made my wort in a plastic garbage container (unused, :^} ) carefully checking the temperature of the water (yeast is killed at temperatures over 80F) added the above ingredients and during the process a bit of some form of vitamin C and header liquid. After the wort was made and became quiescent after a couple of weeks I'd siphon it into large glass(NOT plastic) jeroboams and store them in the fridge to finish brewing, My finest brew was one I had left in the fridge for over 3 mo. Depending how thirsty I was or how plentiful my remaining stock of bottled beer was, I'd bottle them after around a month with a bit of sugar to keep a good head. Too much and you could blow up the bottle or the top off. I didn't filter it because the taste of a "live" beer is just so much better than the commercial brands, most of whom now use a process or chemical(?) to kill the yeast. That of course left a bit of sediment of dead yeast cells in the bottom rich in the B vitamins (in wine-making it's called "the lees"). Old-timey doctors used to recommend beer to pregnant women for that reason, but in these squeaky-clean days of commercial beer-making you can only get it in health-food stores.

I used as my instruction manual a thin volume printed in the North-east US. There it was called "steam beer". I taught the process to a friend of mine who in the early 70s wrote an article on beer-making for the back-to-the-land canadian magazine Harrowsmith. I took a case(24) to one small union meeting in Montreal and the very beer-savvy french-canadian members were estatic about it. They immediately pressured me to start a bootlegging operation with it. One year before Xmas I made 18 cases(24) for the holidays, for my own and guests use.

Often the alcohol content was deemed important by newbies. More sugar and a longer brewing period can raise that to a certain level and some brewers in Europe have raised it by double brewing, but I arrived at an amount of sugar in the mix which kept it below 6% which I found tastiest, and was able to drink more than 3 bottles of after a hot day at work without getting completely besotted.

Of course like most canadians, US beer is like beer-flavored soda-pop to me. Some of my imported favorites are Heiniken, Tuborg regular or dark, Beck, and Guiness. I did years ago drink the US hi-alcohol Gluecks Stite and a few of the hi-alcohol canadian ones. Now I tend to drink brews from smaller canadian brewers.

Lawrence