• Please review our updated Terms and Rules here
  • Exhibitor application for VCF West 2022 is now open! If you are interested in exhibiting, please fill out the form here.
  • Here are the results of the VCF East 2022 Post Event Survey: Survey Results

Windows 2 on a IBM PC XT

Rubix

Experienced Member
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
144
I tried to start Windows 2 (not Windows 286 but Windows 2.03) on an IBM PC XT but after the bootscreen, it hangs. I think this is because the display (5151) can't display high resolution graphics, but I thought it should support some graphic mode. Does anybody know if there is a special driver for these displays or which display I should choose in the setup? All monochrome screens I can choose from are high res. AT&T monochrome doesn't work either. I'm running MS-Dos 3.2.

Or maybe Windows 2 won't run on an XT at all XD But then, why can I select an XT as my computer model during the Windows setup wizard.
 
Last edited:

dongfeng

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2003
Messages
1,348
Location
London, England
AFAIK, you need a Hercules or compatible card to run Windows 2. The IBM Black and White Parallel card cannot support graphics.

I installed Windows 1.04 on my 5150 with a Hercules and 5151 with no problems :)
 

Rubix

Experienced Member
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
144
Yep, it works with the color card, tnx.

But now the screen (a highscreen composite monochrome monitor) doesn't work with it >.<
 
Last edited:

the xt guy

Experienced Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Messages
112
Location
Colorado
You can run Windows 1.0, 2.0 and 3.0 on an 8088 (although 3.0 will run very slow at 4.77 mhz.).

there is nothing '286' about Windows 286 at all. It is a renamed version of Win 2x, which M$ renamed to distinguish it from Windows 386 when they introduced that.

I have some computer magazines from about 1989 where they tested Windows 286. It was claimed to run very slightly faster (about 5%) than Windows 2x and also had a few very minor improvements.

Windows 1x, 2x and 286 will only run in real/8088 mode, which means they can't use any memory above the 640K DOS limit and can't use any extended memory (as would be available on a 286).
 

barythrin

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
6,256
Location
Texas
Not sure if you need to for this system however you can try running "win.com /?" and possibly find some arguments to enforce lesser settings like monochrome or not using 386 mode (for newer versions of 3.x).

- John
 

Rubix

Experienced Member
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
144
Hey, this is really cool! I put an EGA card in the PC XT and look, it works! Windows 1 on a 512kB computer with 10MB harddisk :p

pc_xt_windows_1_104.jpg


By the way, it crashes at every program I try to open. Does anyone know if Windows 2 can also run with 512kB ram? :p And I guess the 5151 cannot work a an enhanced monitor?
 

mbbrutman

Associate Cat Herder
Staff member
Joined
May 3, 2003
Messages
6,235
Get 640K, and you might be able to do something.

The 5151 is strictly monochome. With a monochrome card it is 80x25 text. With a Hercules card it can do green and black graphics.

When I read 'Enhanced' I think 'Enhanced color display', as in an EGA display. The 5151 != EGA.
 

evildragon

Veteran Member
Joined
May 29, 2007
Messages
1,645
Location
Tampa Florida
Windows 2 actually can run fine on 512K of RAM.. It's picky about the DOS version though.. I found DOS 4 was ok with it. I never got DOS 5 or 6 to work though, it would show the MS logo, then garble the screen, and go back to DOS prompt (after beeping like mad)
 

Rubix

Experienced Member
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
144
Ok, tnx for the tip :) I don't know where to get extra RAM or how to install it, but it doesn't matter too much, it was fun to install ;) hehe

ibm_pc_xt_microsoft_275.jpg


What do you mean by 'runs fine'? Can it start any programs or does it crash as well then, like Windows 1? :p And MS-Dos 4 is slow as hell compared to version 5.
 
Last edited:

evildragon

Veteran Member
Joined
May 29, 2007
Messages
1,645
Location
Tampa Florida
my old PS/2 used to have 512K, I'd run Windows 2.03 on it all the time, but it never liked a newer version of DOS. I had to use version 4 on it for some reason. Ot might work with 3 though, I'm not sure. When I said runs fine, I meant it could boot and get to the desktop ;) ... I tried Windows 2.03 on a modern day PC with DOS 6.22, and it would crash too.. Try that same modern PC with DOS 4 and Windows 2.03, and it would boot to the desktop.. There's a compatibility conflict I think...
 

Rubix

Experienced Member
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
144
Ok, I'd guess it'll say I have insufficient memory then or crash. But Windows 3.1 has a nice memory warning already.

Why did you run Windows while not using it by the way? :p Eg. Norton Commander is a much better shell than Windows 2.
 

evildragon

Veteran Member
Joined
May 29, 2007
Messages
1,645
Location
Tampa Florida
don't know what your last message means.. i use windows on it.. i actually have windows 3.0 installed on it right now.. (which does also work with 512K, but it's REALLY reccomended to have 640k---the highest Real-Mode allows)..
 

Rubix

Experienced Member
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
144
I mean that if your IBM PC XT doesn't start any applications from within Windows, there is no reason to use Windows.

I can't even change directories without crashing Windows.
 

evildragon

Veteran Member
Joined
May 29, 2007
Messages
1,645
Location
Tampa Florida
I mean that if your IBM PC XT doesn't start any applications from within Windows, there is no reason to use Windows.

I can't even change directories without crashing Windows.
once, with 512KB RAM, on my XT, I was running Clock, Calculator, and Reversi at the same time.. sure, wasn't as fast, but it didn't crash.. i don't have a picture of it doing that, but i'll show my XT with 512K RAM installed running Windows 3.0...

EDIT: Here you go.. (yes, normally this system has 640k, but I took out 128KB for you, to prove it would work)

ibmlowmem.jpg
 
Last edited:

Rubix

Experienced Member
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
144
How did you do that? I can't do a thing, not even an about box! It draws some applications but crashes afterwards.

What's your XT's configuration? I now have an EGA (Ultimate Ega) card on monochrome mode. It has two monochrome modes, I don't know the difference. Then I have a 5151 monochrome monitor, 512KB ram and Dos 3.3 installed. The config.sys file features 40 files and 60 buffers.

I see you use a better graphics card and monitor, but that shouldn't be a problem.

This is the most I can get of Windows 1:

ibm_windows_1.jpg
 

evildragon

Veteran Member
Joined
May 29, 2007
Messages
1,645
Location
Tampa Florida
How did you do that? I can't do a thing, not even an about box! It draws some applications but crashes afterwards.

What's your XT's configuration? I now have an EGA (Ultimate Ega) card on monochrome mode. It has two monochrome modes, I don't know the difference. Then I have a 5151 monochrome monitor, 512KB ram and Dos 3.3 installed.
try a different version of DOS.. like i said, it seems that Windows is picky on a DOS version..

my system specs are normally high, but for that picture, i downgraded it a bit.. here's what it "was" doing:
Intel 8086 8MHz
512KB RAM
(but it did have a VGA card installed----but that uses up more RAM than EGA or mono drivers)

My monitor is built into the system..

my config.sys I believe is completely empty... Windows 1.01 was a pretty buggy operating system.. i'll try and find the requirements chart for you though (for those OS's..)
 

Rubix

Experienced Member
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
144
I only have DOS 3 and 5 :p For Dos 4, I have to connect my PII for some copies of my new computer.

But still... Dos 3 was the newest version in 1985 as far as I know... I run Windows 1.02 btw. And Dos 3.1. An other XT has 3.3 on it :p
"The system requirements for Windows 1.0 constituted MS-DOS 2.0, 256 KB RAM, and 2 double-sided disk drives or a hard drive." - Wikipedia

You should set some buffers in config.sys, 15 or so. You'll notice your XT will run much smoother that way.
 
Last edited:

evildragon

Veteran Member
Joined
May 29, 2007
Messages
1,645
Location
Tampa Florida
well, it seems it should be working...

"The system requirements for Windows 1.0 constituted MS-DOS 2.0, 256 KB RAM, and 2 double-sided disk drives or a hard drive."

from wikipedia...

it "should" be working.. what's the error it prints when trying to show an about box? perhaps your RAM has a problem with it in a certain address.. but without an error message, it's hard to say..
 

Rubix

Experienced Member
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
144
It does not give any message. It just quits to prompt. And there I can't do anything but Ctrl + Alt + Del. Same for everything, except for some applications, which first get their main screen drawn and then quit to prompt.

Btw, I can't resize the executive either. It seems to be some drawing problem. Maybe I chose the wrong monochrome mode in the video card but I don't know the differences between the two modes.

Edit: I think I do know the difference. One is 40 column and the other is 80 column mode.
 
Last edited:
Top