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Most valuable vintage machine?

<< So how do you guys feel accurate replicas impact the value of vintage computers? Is all the value in the antiquity or circulation volume? >>

Until I read this I didn't realize there were replicas of old computers. Wouldn't this be the same thing as a counterfeit handbag? Who makes them (the Chinese?), are they prevalent, and how do you ensure you're buying the real thing when you buy a vintage computer or computer part, not a replica?
 
The best replicas are designed by fellow members of this forum. :) The replicas however have small details that make them more easy to distinguish from the originals. Some replicas are closer to the original design than others.
 
Lydia said:
<< So how do you guys feel accurate replicas impact the value of vintage computers? Is all the value in the antiquity or circulation volume? >>

Until I read this I didn't realize there were replicas of old computers. Wouldn't this be the same thing as a counterfeit handbag? Who makes them (the Chinese?), are they prevalent, and how do you ensure you're buying the real thing when you buy a vintage computer or computer part, not a replica?
Click to expand...

Hi
Most replicas of things like the Apple I are functional replicas, not exact
replicas. Most are marked in some way to indicate that they are not forgeries.
When looking at my collection, some of the items have shown increase
in value that was not always expected.
Others mentioned the Jupiter Ace.
I have an IMSAI that I purchased for $150 about 10 of 12 years back.
The Canon Cat I bought for around $150 w/ shipping. These now sell
on ebay for $800 to $1900.
Several machines are particulary rare. My Nicolet 1080 is one of only about
4 that I know to exist in the world today. The may be a few more hiding
in government wherehouses but most wouldn't notice it as special
and just toss it to the recycle. I bought mine for $350 and about $100
shipping.
Some items I have that are rare enough that I've never seen any come
up on ebay. I have a SIM4-01 development system ( i4004 ) ( not
to be confused with the later MOD4 ). I have no idea what the value
might be. It has one of the early grey trace 4004's that are said to
be rare by its on right.
I've not see a Poly 8813 come up on ebay either. The one I have was
given to me. Poly88s seem to go for about $350-$500 somplace ( I have
2 of these ). They wrote the own BASIC to run on the Polymophics.
All of these are in running condition.
Some have worth beyond what one would have thought. The Video Brain
comes to mind.
All these are in running condition.
Worth and rareness are not always the same. Many truly rare items just
don't have value, other than being rare. It often takes a combination
of something historic, uniqueness and rareness to create value.
Dwight
 
carlsson said:
The best replicas are designed by fellow members of this forum. :) The replicas however have small details that make them more easy to distinguish from the originals. Some replicas are closer to the original design than others.
Click to expand...

Hi
I was just thinking. While a working exact replica of a Apple I might be hard
to create, even for $20K, a non-function fake could be done. Parts
can be relabled to look like original.
This could be done and a buyer that wasn't careful might not notice the
difference. For $20K, I'm sure someone might try it.
A bad forgery would be easy to pick out. Date codes would be obvious
give aways. Also, any custom parts would need to be exact copies.
Dwight
 
billdeg said:
Purely $$'s, Apple I will always be on the top of the pile, unless some new historical treasure is unveiled.

Maybe a small team at DEC in 1966 made a stripped down PDP 8 that worked with a television set and functioned as a PC, but they never sold them. They even made a few finished units, but then put them in storage and forgot about them???

Maybe in some forgotten store room, currently occupied by a shoe store in Cleveland, lies a few boxed, unopened Altair 8800's. "What are those things" the staff would ask.

There are probably some homebrew systems made in 1974-75 that were constructed by "famous" computer pioneers in the homebrew computer club, etc. that would at least be more historically valuable than the Apple I.

Marty Spergel sold some custom computers - do any of these exist? (The Junk Man from the homebrew club days).
Click to expand...

Well, if we're venturing into the realm of the hypothetical, how 'bout an unbuilt Apple I, autographed by both Steves, and perhaps several other prominent members of the Homebrew club?

--T
 
I was watching a "video games" special on the History Channel yesterday and they mentioned, of course, the original Space War.

So how would a PDP-1's value compare to that of an Apple 1?
 
The whole thread is bogus. ;-0

It's hard to know the value of things where the market is so limited. And the values will fluctuate. And there are so many ways to value things ..

I obviously posted my PCjr comment for grins. I used to actually be quite obsessive about knowing and understanding everything about the machine, which involved trying to find all of the third party stuff too. After a while I realized that I was getting far more value out of enjoying the machine (programming on it) and not searching for the holy grail. So I pretty much stopped buying things.

An Apple I would be killer, but I'd be scared to turn it on. Altair's and IMSAIs - same thing. Grant's kits are very interesting, but I don't have the time to explore another corner of the computing universe. A Timex Sinclair in mint condition with all of the extras would be more interesting to me - that was my first computer (term loosely used). Even the C64s are very interesting because there is a great hacker community for them today.

I wish I was about 10 or 15 years earlier, back when most of the stuff was still cheap. The collectability of these things has made them scarce and driven prices up.
 
There was a boxed 8800 kit on ebay a few years back and it didn't come to half of an Apple 1 value. Maybe it would be different today.
 
Erik said:
I was watching a "video games" special on the History Channel yesterday and they mentioned, of course, the original Space War.

So how would a PDP-1's value compare to that of an Apple 1?
Click to expand...

It depends. Millions of dollars of vintage equipment is shredded to make thousands.

I know someone from a local recycler. I told him that if the drive is bigger than 5.25" or the computer won't fit in his car, give me a call. : )
 
Erik said:
I was watching a "video games" special on the History Channel yesterday and they mentioned, of course, the original Space War.

So how would a PDP-1's value compare to that of an Apple 1?
Click to expand...


I saw that, too. It was pretty good, and rather educational. I think the Apple 1 would win that war.

--Ryan
 
Dwight Elvey said:
Hi
I was just thinking. While a working exact replica of a Apple I might be hard
to create, even for $20K, a non-function fake could be done. Parts
can be relabled to look like original.
This could be done and a buyer that wasn't careful might not notice the
difference. For $20K, I'm sure someone might try it.
A bad forgery would be easy to pick out. Date codes would be obvious
give aways. Also, any custom parts would need to be exact copies.
Dwight
Click to expand...

The Apple 1 has already been replicized. You can tell them apart by looking at them side by side or the date codes. I had to think about your concern with the Kenbak-1 and what it comes down to is if you're going to spend $10-20k without looking at it then I can't help it. When people buy antiques the get books to make sure it isn't a fake. If you search for Kenbak its not hard to find my website...its even on the wikipedia page. :)

That is my position... Also, on the bottom of every PCB is "Homebrew 2007" and a website address. It would be hard to see on the kenbak when the board is bolted down, but it's there.
 
grant said:
The Apple 1 has already been replicized. You can tell them apart by looking at them side by side or the date codes. I had to think about your concern with the Kenbak-1 and what it comes down to is if you're going to spend $10-20k without looking at it then I can't help it. When people buy antiques the get books to make sure it isn't a fake. If you search for Kenbak its not hard to find my website...its even on the wikipedia page. :)

That is my position... Also, on the bottom of every PCB is "Homebrew 2007" and a website address. It would be hard to see on the kenbak when the board is bolted down, but it's there.
Click to expand...

Hi
The current replica Apple I is easy to recognize because it has several
updated parts and the layout is different. What I meant is that one
could intentionally make forgery Apple I and fake the date codes
on the chips with some careful stamp pad work.
The stuff you make is not what I'd consider a problem. I know
that you make things for other purposes. The only way to get
the feel of some of these old machines is to get some hardware.
Emulators are just not as exciting as flipping swithces.
Dwight
 
Among casual computers users, Apple certainly is a better known brand than Digital, in particular as Digital was merged twice: first with Compaq, and now with HP which have erased the brand name. Thus, casual collectors might be more interested in an Apple I compared to a bunch of the more unusual Digital computers.

Also, size obviously was not an issue in this comparison but is in reality. If I get the chance to buy one out of two equally rare computers, one small enough to store in a desk drawer and one so big that it needs a table of its own to be stored, I tend to be more interested in the smaller one.

Mike's point about active users and development is interesting. Those machines that already today are rare and owners hesitate to power on may over a longer time simply become obscure and interest fewer collectors rather than the opposite. Relatively common Apple IIs, C64s, IBM PCs and so on, for which the community keeps them alive and kicking on the other hand might be more sought after. If we assume age takes its ransom and percent wise just as many old computers from all manufacturers will start to fail, the number of good working vintage computers of certain models will soon drop to an "uncommon" value.
 
Lydia wrote:

Until I read this I didn't realize there were replicas of old computers. Wouldn't this be the same thing as a counterfeit handbag? Who makes them (the Chinese?), are they prevalent, and how do you ensure you're buying the real thing when you buy a vintage computer or computer part, not a replica?

It's for this reason why I value a Jupiter Ace more than an Apple I! And because it chose Forth as opposed to BASIC!
 
Big Blues said:
The most valuable has to be Charles Babbage's analytical engine.

http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/objects/computing_and_data_processing/1878-3.aspx

Ya, they say he never built it, but I think it's sitting in a really old barn somewhere. He was just embarrassed because it had a floating-point bug.
Click to expand...

Actually, the Science Museum in London are partway through making an exact replica to the original plans!

I'll pop in there sometime and check up on it as I work almost next to the museum :)
 
carlsson wrote:

CP/M User: There are build-your-own Jupiter Ace replicas too, but perhaps not ready manufactured with case and keyboard.

True, though I was referring to the real deal. I spose if you could get a hold of the original case and pop in your own machine, then it would have more value than no box. Somebody was also telling me that to have an original Jupiter Ace as opposed to an original Jupiter Ace in Full working order also bumps up the price of them significantly (even though an Original Ace which doesn't work can go for a bit). I reckon if you were a fanatic and could also bundle all of the original Software for this machine (which wasn't a lot) like this site has on the original tapes I'd reckon you could get a bit extra pennies! :-D

If it isn't the most Expensive machine going around then it would have to be the most expensive Z80 I can think of.

Just getting back to the PDP-1 and Spacewar! I'm unsure how many PDP-1s were built (probably 100 or something knowing how big they are - even though their a relatively small machine for their time), I reckon if had the PDP-1 machines which Spacewar! was written on and could prove it then that might increase the value of the PDP-1, though some people might claim that Spacewar! was written on it just to deliberately get some more money for it.

Then you might have machines which were touched by the hands of Bill Gates and Arthur C. Clarke which might get a bit of extra money because of that!

CP/M User.
 
Well, the vintage Deskpros must be worth something, I've gotten a lot of questions about selling them, even though I don't have them anymore.
 
Hm. I will seriously try to think of a Z80 computer more uncommon/valuable than any Jupiter Ace. Probably some of the truly oddball Asian ones you barely have seen on picture would fetch more money in the right group of home computer collectors.

By the way, today I have agreed to a deal to buy my so far most expensive vintage home computer; a complete, boxed vTech Laser 2001 with a few tape games (perhaps I can get some spare CreatiVision carts too, although the newly manufactured Multicart is reported to not fit physically into the Laser's cartridge port). I'm paying about 350 USD + shipping for this one, which is about 200 USD more than I first had planned, but I'm intrigued and it seems a bit uncommon.
 
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