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Kaypro II drive problem

Thanks,

Diagnostic files like
KAYDIAG.LBR
KPDIAG.LBR
KPENG13.LBR

certainly sound useful.

I've read about this archive but don't have it. Now I've got a Kaypro, it seems it would be a good thing to have. I seem to remember serveral postings in this forum on it, including a download link where you could get individual files.

Anyway, let me do a bit of digging around first and see if I can download them from somewhere. I'll then have to figure out how to get them into the Kaypro. I'm sure there is info on that somewhere.

Tez
 
Terry Yager said:
I think you'll run into a Catch-22...you can't run the diag program till you get a drive working.

--T
Click to expand...

The A: drive works though? Couldn't I just run the program from the A: drive and target the drive/disk to be checked as the B: drive?

I used a similar diagnostic program on my Apple II+ recently to fix a drive. I ran the program on drive 1, but made the target drive 2 (the non-functioning one). If I remember correctly, it asked me to insert a known "good" formatted floppy (I had one I'd formatted before in drive 1) to check the drive 2 radial alignment with. It then gave me a measure of how much it seemed to be "off".

With that particular drive, it wasn't the alignment but rather the speed that was wrong. The diagnostic program gave me a graphical display of a speed scale showing the the test drive's speed and where it should be. It was WAY too fast! As soon as I adjusted it so it was where it was suppose to be, it worked just fine. From an apparenly broken apple disk drive to one that was fully working in one easy step.

I don't think speed is the problem with this Kaypro B drive, but a similar program might give me some more info.

Tez
 
Oh, so one drive is working now? I musta missed that. I don't know if it's any great help, but you might find the XAMN program useful. It's a disk editor, but you might want to use it to check what may or not be written to disks in the faulty drive. The program is included in S-BASIC source on the K-II disks, and can be compiled using S-BASIC.

--T
 
Terry Yager said:
Oh, so one drive is working now? I musta missed that. I don't know if it's any great help, but you might find the XAMN program useful. It's a disk editor, but you might want to use it to check what may or not be written to disks in the faulty drive. The program is included in S-BASIC source on the K-II disks, and can be compiled using S-BASIC.

--T
Click to expand...

Yea, one of the drives has always worked ok. The format/verify tests I've been running have been from the cp/m format program on the working A: drive targetted at the faulty B drive.

Thanks for the recommendation.

Tez
 
I got the walnut creek yesterday - there is a link on this very site in the cpm section with a last post mid December. So you don't have to go far. Thanks ++ to the person who has made this available. Had to unzip and then mount the ISO and then copy the files back onto the computer. Needed a few other bits of software to do that.

I say yesterday, because it was all of yesterday. And my broadband drops out whenever the phone rings so it was a bit tentative doing a 500Mb download at 15k/sec and hoping no-one would ring up wanting to sell fertilizer or a new phone plan.

How would I send you a couple of files? As an email attachment?

With all your vintage computers, do you have another kaypro that can be used to get files onto a floppy and onto this machine? Or some other mechanism?
 
Dr_Acula said:
How would I send you a couple of files? As an email attachment?
Click to expand...

Thanks, I'll PM you about this.


Dr_Acula said:
With all your vintage computers, do you have another kaypro that can be used to get files onto a floppy and onto this machine? Or some other mechanism?
Click to expand...

No I don't have another Kaypro. I'm not exacty sure how to get the file across just yet, but I can get a Kaypro disk from a disk image. I've done this using Dave Dunfield's disk imaging program on my 386 MS-DOS PC. That's how I got a working Kaypro CP/M System disk.

Hopefully there is some way of getting a FILE onto a disk image. If I can do that, I can make another disk from it. Alternatively, I might be able to find a disk image with a comms program and use that to get it directly from the PC into a disk. This might be less messing around (I don't have to drag the 386 out).

I need to research it, but I'm assuming it can be done.

I'm happy to go looking but can anyone point me to some info on this off the top of their heads. It might even be in a sticky somewhere in this forum?

Tez
 
Hmm - tricky. We need some help from the brains trust here.

I had a quick look at Dave's programs - there seem to be some other utilities as well and given this would not be an unusual thing to do, I wonder if adding/removing files from a disk image is hidden away in the software somewhere.

It would be a bit like the w.com and r.com programs on the altair SIMH simulator that 'write' and 'read' a program from the disk image to the pc.
 
Dr_Acula said:
Hmm - tricky. We need some help from the brains trust here.

I had a quick look at Dave's programs - there seem to be some other utilities as well and given this would not be an unusual thing to do, I wonder if adding/removing files from a disk image is hidden away in the software somewhere.

It would be a bit like the w.com and r.com programs on the altair SIMH simulator that 'write' and 'read' a program from the disk image to the pc.
Click to expand...

Yes, and like Jeff Vavasour's VREAD.CMD and VWRITE.CMD for jv1 disk images in the TRS-80 Model 1 world. As you say, they are essential utilities and I'm sure CP/M ones exist somewhere.

Tez
 
Terry Yager said:
I don't rightly recall about Dave's program, but I do know it can be done with 22DISK, with which I'm more familiar, so there's still some hope.

--T
Click to expand...

Yes, thanks.

Tonight I hooked up that faulty Tandon drive to my TRS80 Model 1 clone (System 80) and tested it with NEWDOS.

Same problem, which is no surprise. Could not read disks formatted in other drives and a disk formatted in that drive could not be interchanged with others.

A write/verify test started to have trouble at about track 34. The interesting thing about the latter test is this one wrote, then read back each sector to verify, rather than writing out all the tracks, then reading them back in in one go, like the CP/M format program does.

Tez
 
New Kaypro owners - importance of reset for disk changes

New Kaypro owners - importance of reset for disk changes

Hi all!

Tezza, glad my”long winded post” may be of some help.

1] From some inquiries from those new to Kaypros I have gotten, some feel one Kaypro is the same as another – so you really need to know what you really have [e.g., can’t get your car fixed if the mechanic doesn’t know all the specifics of just what model, version, modifications, etc. you have].

2] Since this thread can be very useful for those new to Kaypros, when they find it in the future, especially when they get an actual Kaypro to play with, it may be important for them to know that you have to “reset the disks” every time you remove and add new ones to the drive.

3] You can use the red reset button at the back of the Kaypro or use a Control-C - press the Control key while you press the C key. Mods put this reset button on the front panel for obvious reasons. Curious, Kaypro never did even with later models with the same type of computer case.

4] If you do not reset the disks, then you can get what appear to be disk drive errors.

5] So I am quickly noting this for those new users and not you experienced users.

6] Sometimes you just have to be reminded of the basics, especially when you are new to a computer system.

7] I am sure you and others familiar with Kaypros all know this very well. But those brought up with modern computers, this can seem very new and odd to them.

8] Due to some inquiries I have gotten, I am working on some detailed directions on just how to setup your Kaypro and start it up and shut it down for those who are new to Kaypros. When I get it done, I will post it here for any new people to Kaypros.

9] Took a quick look at the other postings and you new pictures. Your Kaypro looks pretty normal and the main board too and chips.

10] That type of drive shield is something I have never seen, but at least you have one.

11] The U87 two wire mod is ok – lower right corner of main board. It was something that was done by Kaypro in some later versions, since Microcornucopia discovered this helped to stabilize the system.

12] A Kaypro “1” not “I” [Roman numeral] was offered in the auction Erik posted about on this web site. A picture was included that is similar to the front of your Kaypro except there was no brightness control on this front panel. It also had half height drives.

13] I never heard of a “1” but there it is. It was apparently a later model. So there is precedent with Kaypro for this design. Therefore it looks like it is not some “very special” Kaypro that was built in small quantities that maybe had some special disk drive requirements. Also it is not something that someone modified in some special way.

14] The Kaypro “I” [Roman numeral] was apparently just a prototype that was never sold. It was before the Kaypro II in 1983.

15] You certainly seem to be approaching all this in a very logical, effective and efficient way. Hearty congrats! Although it can be frustrating at times when success does not come very quickly.

16] So it just looks like you need to just get a new drive or keep trying to fix this one.

17] I am sure we all will be interested in how it all works out and how you use your new Kaypro. Please keep us posted.

18] If I get any more possible useful thoughts from further reviewing all of these more recent posts and pictures, I will post my comments.

19] Yes, the controversy about socketed and not socketed chips!

20] In checking a Kaypro repair book from the 1980’s, the 1793 chip at U82 for the disk drives was something that many recommended to be replaced. Unfortunately, they noted at that time it cost $80!

21] So this helps with respect to the controversy of socketed and not socketed chips – each has its advantages and disadvantages.

22] I think JDR still sells many Kaypro chips for less than a $1 and sometimes only $0.25, since they were so commonly used in so many devices.

How times have changed.

Frank

P.S.

Did this quickly so please excuse any typos – my wife is an English major with very high standards so I have to be careful
 
Original reply tried to send on Tandons on vc site

Original reply tried to send on Tandons on vc site

Chuck(G) said:
You have lots of Tandons? Any TM-100-4M drives?

(AFAIK, Teac never made a 100 tpi drive)
Click to expand...

====================================================
Chuck,

VC website still will not let me send you a PM, so I am trying email.

We just communicated thru the cctalk@classiccmp.org and all seems resolved.

But I am sending this email anyways to see if the vc website will let me do it.

I have been having some difficulties and even Erik does not know why.

Just discard it. Sorry to bother you, but I want to continue to check what it will and not let me do to try to track down the issue.

Erik sent a suggestion and that is what I am trying.

It just let me post a another response to Tezza with Erik's suggestion

===============================================

The following was the intended original reply -

Tandon 100-4M???

Chuck,

PM is probably best since this is not really on topic and I have already used up a lot of this site with my last post.

I do not know what the "4M" version is.

I only used the standard Tandons that the Kaypro used back then – TM100-2 and TM100 – 4 – 48 and 96 tpi.

You may want to check with Farris as I mention in my latest and other post, along with the results of some Google searches on Tandon disk drive availability.

Apparently they and of course the floppies are still used in many older systems, particularly the military I believe – so much for our updated military! But there may be some good reasons we should "not" know about.

I am not into what Tezza and some others are doing. It is very admirable!

I have many other projects going and have to make the best use of my time.

Also, I probably have some "old hidden bad memories" of the Tandon era!

As you said, they were great for their time and there were few other options.

Then came the Kaypro upgrades and the Teacs and I never looked back.

I cannot recall ever having an issue with a Teac, as opposed to that sinking feeling when a Tandon started to act up again and you started to quickly lose a lot of your work.

I repaired so many, but it was very sensitive to do such adjustments and they seemed to not last very long.

I do not know of any 100 tpi Tandons either that you mention in parentheses on your post as a "fake?"

I used the FD55GFR versions for the Kaypro upgrades so I could get "quad" high density 96 tpi also – a big improvement!

You can also contact me thru my website - www.kayprosts.org. I check my email a couple times a week and this site a couple times a month.

So all the best for 2009!

Frank
 
GADFRAN said:
You certainly seem to be approaching all this in a very logical, effective and efficient way. Hearty congrats! Although it can be frustrating at times when success does not come very quickly.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the compliment. However, I wonder sometimes wonder what the boundary is between a repair challenge and an unhealthy obsession. :)

Problem is, vintage parts are not common in New Zealand and with shipping charges and currency exchange rates being the way they are it's often a matter of repair or do without. You can't just pick up another one for a few bucks.

Philip Avery (pavery on this forum) is paying me a visit on the weekend. Philip has had first-hand experience in calibrating drives and is going to take a look at the problem. We'll see what we can come up with.

Tez
 
Thanks for Tandon info & Kaypro progress

Thanks for Tandon info & Kaypro progress

Thanks for Tandon info - so much to learn, so little time, but fun all the way - so what is wrong with obsessions? They can keep you out of a lot of trouble.

Erik suggested I try somethings differently about getting on this website and so far they seem to be working.

So sorry for any inconvenience to all with some of my "odd" posts like to Chuck above.

I also could get into my profile and a picture - Kaypro II logo.

So we will see how it all goes.

Frank
 
Disk drive bolts can cut Teac boards!

Disk drive bolts can cut Teac boards!

Just a short one - in checking more of my files on Kaypros and some of Tezza'a disk drive issues, I found my info on this.

It is obvious if you check first - if you are adding half height Teacs in place of the Tandons on Kaypros, as you look at the half height Teac, on the left side - front and back - the disk drive bolts that hold the drive to the disk drive shield can just cut into the front and back pc boards on the Teac and cut a trace!

Naturally depends on which holes you have to use on the drives and the length of the bolts you are using - ! / 4 " or possibly 3 / 8 " inch might be the best, if you can get them.

Guess how I found out back in the early 1990's - out came the soldering iron after much investigation.

I used some spacer washers and solved the issue.

Much more info if needed, but this should alert you.

Frank
 
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