Yes, I saw that after posting, but not sure if HP:s release has the same dimensions.
Here is the card I am looking at.
- VCF South West - June 14 - 16, Davidson-Gundy Alumni Center at University of Texas at Dallas
- VCF West - Aug 2 - 3, Computer History Museum, Mountain View, CA
- VCF Midwest - Sept 7 - 8 2024, Schaumburg, IL
- VCF SoCal - Mid February 2025, Location TBD, Southern CA
- VCF East - April 2025, Infoage Museum, Wall NJ
-
Please review our updated Terms and Rules here
Good EGA card that fits inside a 5160 case
- Thread starter boggit
- Start date
Here is the card I am looking at.
Lol, I was *just* about to post that exact link. Seems good to go!
Only issue is shipping from Bulgaria, which tends to take ages, but oh well!
Edit: No wait, says ”ships from Greater China”. No thanks.
Last edited:
Eudimorphodon
Veteran Member
According to the dimensions in the IBM 5160 technical reference (an enhanced version of which is here) it's permissible for an IBM XT expansion card to project about 6mm, or a quarter inch, over the top of the mounting bracket tab. Cards for the IBM AT can go about half an inch higher.
I personally have never seen an *ISA* EGA or VGA card that's too tall for an XT case. The reason I put *ISA* in that sentence is I have vague memories of EISA video cards existing that are too tall. (But I cannot confirm first-hand because I never owned an EISA machine.) I do remember running into the occasional card that really pushed the clearance limit in an XT, to the point that if your case top were slightly dented or your motherboard wasn't sitting exactly right on the standoffs the PCB could scrape on the lid, but *technically* I think those cards were at least intended to fit. Because the 5162 and other "Baby AT" machines existed and were for a time pretty popular "full-height" cards are actually pretty rare...
... But that said... hrm. It would be really nice if the photo of that card were straight on instead of that extreme angle because, you're right, that sure looks like it could be more than a quarter of an inch over the top of the tab, but it could just be perspective playing tricks with us. For OEM cards bets can definitely be off. (For instance, the CGA cards used in some Compaq portables are extra tall...)
I personally have never seen an *ISA* EGA or VGA card that's too tall for an XT case. The reason I put *ISA* in that sentence is I have vague memories of EISA video cards existing that are too tall. (But I cannot confirm first-hand because I never owned an EISA machine.) I do remember running into the occasional card that really pushed the clearance limit in an XT, to the point that if your case top were slightly dented or your motherboard wasn't sitting exactly right on the standoffs the PCB could scrape on the lid, but *technically* I think those cards were at least intended to fit. Because the 5162 and other "Baby AT" machines existed and were for a time pretty popular "full-height" cards are actually pretty rare...
... But that said... hrm. It would be really nice if the photo of that card were straight on instead of that extreme angle because, you're right, that sure looks like it could be more than a quarter of an inch over the top of the tab, but it could just be perspective playing tricks with us. For OEM cards bets can definitely be off. (For instance, the CGA cards used in some Compaq portables are extra tall...)
Last edited:
modem7
10k Member
Yes, because an advertisement includes, "VEGA Deluxe work in any slot of any PC and most compatibles, including slot 8 of an IBM PC/XT."
Chuck(G)
25k Member
There were also some original Compaq portable cards that were too tall for a 5150/5160 case. The async card comes to mind.
Plasma
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2005
- Messages
- 2,081
Belt sander.
modem7
10k Member
Of course, assuming that the HP branded card is physically identical to the VEGA Deluxe, and from the photos, it certainly appears that way to me.
Compaq always did their own thing. They didn't make cards to put into IBM PC/XT/AT compatibles; they made them to fit into their own machines.
No one selling generic cards for the PC/XT/AT made them in a way that would not allow the cards to fit in a 5150/60/70 case, as that would have been stupid.
This is the I/O card I mentioned in the first post of this thread. It sticks up almost an inch above the bracket.
So either this statement is incorrect, or many ISA card manufacturers were stupid.
So either this statement is incorrect, or many ISA card manufacturers were stupid.
Last edited:
VERAULT
Veteran Member
Im late to the party.. But what EGA card WOULDN'T fit in a 5160 case?!
VERAULT
Veteran Member
Yeah fair enough. But what EGA cards have shown to be built with these dimensions? Apples and oranges.
As I've stated in this thread: Quite a few - if not most - of the EGA cards that I've found for sale on eBay seems to be in the precise range where they very well could be too tall, judging by the images provided. Images that can be tricky to interpret, depending on the perspectives/angles used.
Then again, maybe it is the case that pretty much all EGA cards released will fit within a 5150/5160 case. Maybe. I just don't want to invest~$100 and 1-3 weeks of shipment time in such a "maybe", only to discover that I cannot close the case while using the card that I just bought, so I thought that it would be wise to be as sure as possible beforehand.
Eudimorphodon
Veteran Member
To be clear, when I said that cards taller than the XT height limit were “pretty rare” that was not to say they didn’t exist. The disk controller and I/O cards shipped with the original 5170 were "over-height", and a for "a while" it was in fact pretty common for cards that had the 16 bit connector extension to assume it was okay to be tall. The "a while" in quotes there specifically refers to the two years between the introduction of the 5170 in 1984 and the debut of the 5162 in 1986. I'm torn on whether the 5162 was in fact the first "Baby AT", there may have been a clone or two stuffing a 286 with AT compatible slots into a lower profile case before then, but it signified IBM's official blessing of the form factor, and the industry still listened to IBM in 1986. It by no means put an end to tall cards, but after it came out you'll find most common "everyday" cards like disk controllers got short enough to fit either type of case, even if they had 16 bit connectors.
Also, a comment about that tall card you're using as your example here: even though it has an 8-bit connector there's a tell that I/O card was intended for an IBM PC AT; it has a 16450 UART. Most XT I/O cards have 8250s; don't ask me why, the devices are almost completely compatible with each other, but for a significant period of time in the 80's the practice of continuing to use 8250s for XTs and saving 16450s for ATs stuck around, presumably because that's what IBM did.
I'm torn about that HP labeled card, but like I said, I'd consider vendor-specific/OEM cards their own thing, and that photo isn't really definitive anyway. All the other EGA cards I've seen in this thread look like XT compatible cards to me.
The thing you've got to remember here is that EGA cards were *not* AT-specific options, video cards were generally sold as universally compatible. This may have gotten less true in the latest 80's when VGA cards sprouted 16 bit connectors, but even then most VGA cards stayed XT height because of the "baby AT" now officially being a thing. All of these eBay pictures show cards that, sure, push the height limits for an XT card, but if they were intended to *exceed* them and only be compatable with full-size ATs would be more than half an inch taller still.
Last edited:
Those original Compaq VDU cards won’t even fit their own deskpro. Later versions of the card are shorter so that they fit both the portable and the deskpro. And the brackets are different, but I have a feeling those are interchangeable.
thisisamigaspeaking
Experienced Member
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2024
- Messages
- 78
I think I had this one in my turbo XT clone (came from the store with it). This is what I think of when I think of "clone EGA card" from that time. XTs and XT-286 were extremely common and exactly the machines that would need an upgrade to EGA... That said, I can understand not wanting to take any chances. Oughta be possible to eyeball or even measure a photo from eBay though.
andy
Experienced Member
I just did a quick ebay search, and I didn't see a single EGA card that looked like it wouldn't fit an XT case. If you're not sure, just ask the seller for a better picture, or measurement.
The only tall AT cards I've seen were I/O cards, and RAM cards.
The only tall AT cards I've seen were I/O cards, and RAM cards.