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computer speculation

Computer Collector

Experienced Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2005
Messages
283
Ive always had a feeling deep down, and although its only built on speculation and opinion, here it is:

Toy computers are computers that take Ram Pak cartridges and that you plug into a TV.

Real computers come with a real monitor, disk drive, and dont take carts.

For example, a real computer would be the Commodore PET. A toy would be the C-64

Is this opinion stupid or is there some reality to it?
 
Re: computer speculation

Computer Collector said:
Ive always had a feeling deep down, and although its only built on speculation and opinion, here it is:

Toy computers are computers that take Ram Pak cartridges and that you plug into a TV.

Real computers come with a real monitor, disk drive, and dont take carts.

For example, a real computer would be the Commodore PET. A toy would be the C-64

Is this opinion stupid or is there some reality to it?

I'd say a toy is a machine you can wack someone with without doing much damage... A real computer therefore is an IBM 5170, or a PDP11...
 
Re: computer speculation

Jorg said:
Computer Collector said:
Ive always had a feeling deep down, and although its only built on speculation and opinion, here it is:

Toy computers are computers that take Ram Pak cartridges and that you plug into a TV.

Real computers come with a real monitor, disk drive, and dont take carts.

For example, a real computer would be the Commodore PET. A toy would be the C-64

Is this opinion stupid or is there some reality to it?

I'd say a toy is a machine you can wack someone with without doing much damage... A real computer therefore is an IBM 5170, or a PDP11...

Damage to what, the machine, or the person's head?

I've been told that Commodore 64s float, at least for a little while. If ya can't use it as a boat anchor, what good is it?

--T
 
It's only a real computer if it has virtually unlimited expansion capabilities without having to make new peripherals by hand. Which pretty much leaves us with PC's, Mainframes, Macintosh, and some S-100 systems.
 
If it should not take cartridges, it is basically the same as saying it should not have an expansion bus. Woo, when was the last real computer manufactured - some time in the early 1970s? Also, if the computer needs a built-in or otherwise included monitor to be a real one, it also disallows most systems.

Seriously, the line should be drawn somewhere around programmability. If the device has a way to obtain software from an external source or even replacable ROM chip, it is more of a real computer. If it also has a keyboard or other input device that can be used to add or select which software to run, it is a plus.
 
toys?

every single one of my computers is a toy to me.

but i also view my tv as a toy, my stereo, and a bunch of other things.

no serious computers allowed in my house :wink:

chris
 
What you say, Loomis? Commodore 64 a toy? Commodore 64 were used to control industrial HVAC units. Don't think so. Try a Pong game or Atari 2600. Try even a TRS-80 MC-10 or TS-1000 stock.
 
vic user said:
toys?

every single one of my computers is a toy to me.

but i also view my tv as a toy, my stereo, and a bunch of other things.

no serious computers allowed in my house :wink:

chris

Good point, vu. I've only ever had one "real" computer, my Tandy 102. That's the only computer I ever did real work on. Everything else is just to play with.

--T
 
Re: computers vs toys

Re: computers vs toys

mryon said:
toys and computers are not disjoint sets.

It seems there's too much of a mis-definition of what a computer is now adays...what most people think of is what once was called an "Appliance Computer" like that what your staring at right now.

So by the classic definition of "computer", the old one, game systems, your car, your microwave, your T.V., your stereo, your watch, your kid's LCD video game, all of that including even a Pong System is considered a computer, it uses mathmatic COMPUTations to do the job, but on the other hand.....

Most people think of an appliance computer when computer is said these days, therefore it does not apply to other classes of machine such as your Microwave or your Atari 2600. Yet that does not mean said machines can't be made INTO a full computer. If someone had enough knowhow to make memory expansion, how to create a working keyboard and mouse, and such, an Atari 2600 could even surf the internet (the question would be "are you nuts?" concerning wanting to do it considering you would have to put a TON of add-on's including loads of RAM, a workable keyboard, possibly some way to use a track ball or keyboard to run the program, and even made a new modem to work with the serial address lines on the machine, and it would be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond the scope of what most people would be willing to do on their own, and then the next challenge would be to manage to cram a Web Browser onto some kind of huge bankswitched cartridge that would probably resemble a cutting board when finished).

I consider the Commodore 64 a true computer, there's even an internet browser availible for it I believe, too bad I don't remember the link though, I'll see if I can find it tonight and edit it in here a bit later on...

My whole thought is this arguement is null anyway, the way they keep cramming E-mail and instant message service into computerized machines such as your car and your cell phone these days, eventually everything will be computerized to some degree. Actually, that's pretty frightening, being able to send and recieve E-mail on my Keurig Coffee Machine in 50 years, or send recipies via Toaster Fax (okay, so I'm getting a bit silly). It's just by one definition, anything that computes is a computer, but by another, it's anything with a keyboard that can do more than play Pac-Man and Pong.
 
Atari 2600 and NES are interesting points. Both are considered video games, cartridge loaded so it is possible to change software, but quite hard to write your own. But they have most key elements you expect on a bigger computer, and with some hacking one can get a lot out of it.

But it is true that microwaves and maybe even more washing machines and talking dolls today are computerized using the same 6502, 68000 and other chips that were populating home computers twenty years ago. A talking doll makes me think of robots. Are those computers or a class of their own?

I saw some video clip from a recent Japanese fair which featured one of the most life-like robotesses ever. So far, "she" seemed limited in her movements and it was not clear if "she" was programmed to talk, but from the appearance on video it would not surprise me if we have walking, talking androids or what they should be called within 5-10 years from now.
 
My daughter had a robotic doll that did everything but plow! The thing cost over $150.00, back in the early ninties. I couldn't wait to get my hands on it and start hacking, after she became tired of it, but my ex-wife disposed of it on a closet-cleaning binge before I ever got a chance. My loss...

--T
 
Actually, the doll (I finally remembered the name, Baby Heather by Mattel) was a pretty effective weapon in it's own right. Our neighbor across the street was a 16-year-old boy, who would come to visit every day. After he saw that doll in action, it spooked him so badly that he wouldn't come into the house if it was in the room. I'd have to hide it in a bedroom before he'd even cross the threshold. (The "Chuckie" movies were popular around that time).

--T
 
speaking of horror movies with dolls, did anyone ever see the movie with Karen Black in it, "Trilogy of Terror"?

man, that witch doctor doll was spooky!!!

chria
 
oh man!

oh man!

no kidding!

I had nightmares for years after seeing that. what 30 years ago?


speaking of horror movies with dolls, did anyone ever see the movie with Karen Black in it, "Trilogy of Terror"?

man, that witch doctor doll was spooky!!!

chria
 
i think you are right, it's been that long now!

i saw a vhs copy for sale a few months back at a department store, for like $5.00 cdn, and regret not picking it up.

i wish todd Mcfarlane would do an action figure of that doll.

could even be life size :)

chris
 
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