• Please review our updated Terms and Rules here

Experiences with the Catweasel

NobodyIsHere

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2006
Messages
2,410
Hi,

Has anyone had success with the Catweasel on the PC? What data formats were you reading?

I would like to use the Catweasel to read NorthStar Horizon hard sector floppy disks. Has anyone successfully done it?

Thanks!

Andrew Lynch
 
Hi,

Has anyone had success with the Catweasel on the PC? What data formats were you reading?

I would like to use the Catweasel to read NorthStar Horizon hard sector floppy disks. Has anyone successfully done it?

Thanks!

Andrew Lynch

Hi there,

So far I have only been able to read/write Amiga ADF formats. The few others I have tried haven't worked. I'm still fiddling so hopefully I can get more to work.

~telengard
 
same experience

same experience

Despite being advertised as working with a number of other formats, I've not been able to get the Catweasel to work with anything other than the Amiga and PC formats.

I'm very disappointed.

I requested help from the developer, but didn't get a response.

I would not recommend the Catweasel simply because it does not work as advertised.
 
Despite being advertised as working with a number of other formats, I've not been able to get the Catweasel to work with anything other than the Amiga and PC formats.

I'm very disappointed.

I requested help from the developer, but didn't get a response.

I would not recommend the Catweasel simply because it does not work as advertised.

So far those are the ones I too have gotten to work. Also, it seems that Atari XFD format will work if you have a 360k drive. I haven't tried using the disk I did yet. I contacted the author about adding support for ATR format which I think is the same as XFD except for (with or without, can't remember) a header.

~telengard
 
I second Lyncaj's comments. cw2dmk has read a bunch of different 8" and 5.25" formats for me, and the source code is available.
 
cw2dmk

cw2dmk

This package looks interesting. Previously I was turned off because I didn't know much about the dmk format. However, after looking at the spec (http://discover-net.net/~dmkeil/trs80/trstech.htm#Technical-DMK-disks) it appears that the format is simple and documented.

The only hitch now is that I can't run WinXP, but that's not that much of a limitation. I can boot an Ubuntu LiveCD to capture the images.

Now, it seems the big question is what disk formats could be captured.

From my list of needed formats, I think the GCR formats - Apple II and Mac 800K will be issues.

The Atari format is listed on the web page as not supported, but the cw2dmk documentation explains how an Atari 800 disk can be read.

Certainly TRS-80 would be supported. I'd suspect the TI-99 and Kaypro CP/M formats would be supported. The last one would be the DEC RX50 format. I think that would work as well with the right cw2dmk parameters.

I'll have to try it out!

-Matt
 
wait a minute

wait a minute

Just after I typed my message, I checked the Catweasel web site.

We may be in business. Here's the new bulletin:

15.9.2007: New drivers for Catweasel, Commodore Scene Award

The most important change of the recent release of the Win32 drivers for the Catweasel are visible in the imagetool, which now supports many new disk formats and has new graphical functions. After a long wait, the Apple floppy formats of older Macintosh computers (400KByte and 800KByte per disk) and the Apple IIe series are now supported. Two more formats of Commodore classics can now be read, but this requires special disk drives with 100tpi. Regular floppy drives have a track spacing of 96tpi, so there will be read errors on most of the tracks of Commodore 8050 or SFD1001 disks.

As always, the new drivers are free, and they still contain the routines required for operation with the oldest Catweasel models. We're asking our customers who are still using these controllers to carefully test these drivers with the old hardware, as we are only testing with the latest PCI models of the controller.
 
I never understood the 100 tpi-ness on 8050/8250/1001 disk drives. Most floppies available are 96 tpi DD (a.k.a. "QD"), although I know some brands manufactured special 100 tpi floppies in the beginning. If I format and use a 96 tpi floppy on a 8250, will I eventually get read errors none the less? I thought it was a marketing gimmick.
 
Catweasel Mk4 Update

Catweasel Mk4 Update

Over the holiday I've finally had the time to try out the updated Catweasel software on my WinXP/Pentium 3 machine.

First, the Individual Computers web site could use some work. You won't find the latest software under "Support", rather, you need to go to "News" find the story (it's the story from 15-Sep-2007), and download the software from there.

The package's installer isn't smart enough to upgrade the existing drivers & software. Rather, the readme instructs you to delete the driver files from the windows\system32\drivers directory, then you reboot and let windows detect the new hardware, at which point you direct it to a temp directory with the new drivers.

The Catweasel card actually implements a number of devices, so you have to install drivers for 4-6 devices or so.

The software includes the original imagetool software and a new program, imagetool3. Imagetool appears to be essentially the same as earlier versions. This means that the disk formats supported are more limited than you'd think. Probably 20-30 different formats.

Imagetool3 includes support for a few more formats, including the Apple formats. Imagetool3 also includes a graphical display of the disk being read (similar to what you'd see in a defrag program), as well as a way to see the signal being read from the disk. Another really nice feature of imagetool3 is the ability to format and write the various disk formats. I haven't tested this, though. Unfortunately, the new graphical displays in the tool are not documented. In fact, the documentation is limited to a readme file. The program itself is listed as beta (version 0.3).

In short, I believe I've been able to now read TI-99 and Atari 810 diskettes, but, was not able to read the TRS-80 nor Apple IIe formats (despite it being listed as supported). I tried both imagetool and imagetool3. No luck.

Also, amazingly, you can't add your own disk formats to the program. Somehow all of the disk formats supported are coded into the imagetool program.

On the plus side, the software package does include the C routines and header files so that you can write your own disk read/write routines if you'd like.

I'm still pretty disappointed with the card. I can only conclude that the package is intended more for supporting Amiga disk interchange.

The entire package would be a lot better if 1) More technical documentation were included, 2) The package could support user-defined disk formats, 3) It actually supported the formats it claims to support, 4) There existed a user forum where the 2600 or so buyers of the card could communicate and share experiences and help each other.

Despite the problems, I did come across a comment on the web (Amiga disucssion forum?) that the card is sold out and that another production run was scheduled for 1Q 2008.

So, where am I with my disk archiving? I'm going to try the Linux cw2dmk utility to see if I can read the rest of my diskettes. I'm also toying with the idea that I should be on the look out for a Central Point Option Board, which, essentially does the same thing.

If all else fails, I can use various platform-specific disk archiving tools (like the Apple ADT). I'm really hoping it doesn't come to that, given that that would be a painful process for any number of disks more than 10.
 
Last edited:
Don't give up on the Catweasel yet.

If you don't like the pre-built windows tools, try Timm Mann's cw2dmk and dmk2cw tools for dos and linux as you've mentioned above. They've been able to handle just about every "standard" soft sectored format I've been able to throw at them. Especially the trs-80 formats (for model I, II, III, 4, 4p, CoCo (of all sorts), Model 600, 16, 6000, and of course the PC stuff). I've also used these to image 8inch disks from a whole bunch of different manufacturers (Intel, Panasonic, DEC, and others).

Another great tool for disk imaging is Dave Dunfield's imagedisk. http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/
 
Hi,
Yes, I would not give up on Catweasel too soon. Certainly the Tim Mann tools are excellent for the soft sectored disk formats and I have been able to extend those to support a variety of hard sectored formats as well such as NorthStar (DD, SD, mixed), Heath (SD), and Vector Graphic (DD). Modifying the CW2DMK tools is not too hard.

The really tough ones are the GCR encoded formats but the Catweasel tools on the Individual website seems to be supporting those.

For what it is worth, I have found the Catweasel to be the best tool available to support the really unique disk formats especially if you are willing to write your own software. Recovering the NorthStar, Heath, and Vector Graphic disk images would be very difficult without it.

Good luck in your search. Thanks!

Andrew Lynch
 
cw2dmk yields some success

cw2dmk yields some success

Guys, thanks for the comments.

Today I did boot up Ubuntu from CD and ran Tim Mann's cw2dmk tool. Like it. A lot.

This is actually the type of tool the Catweasel guys should bundle with the card (except let it run under Windows, :)).

Using cw2dmk, I was able to archive all of my TRS-80, Kaypro, and DEC PDP-11 diskettes.

Then, I went back an re-read a number of PC floppies that gave me read errors when using the Linux dd command. cw2dmk was able to read something like 20-30 of the 75 I could no longer read.

I've still been unable to get the Catweasel Imagetool3 to read the Apple II GCR-encoded floppies.

I'm going to do some research on the Apple II disk format and look into how easy it would be to modify Tim Mann's program to handle the GCR data encoding scheme.

If you happen to have any references documenting the Apple disk encoding format, please post a link or a pointer. The best thing I've found is a scanned book, "Understanding the Apple II" by Jim Sather. It's not the easiest read, but seems to cover the topic.
 
Hm, I just bought a second-hand Catweasel Mk4, populated with double SIDs even. I'll pick it up (local seller) tomorrow or Monday. Since my main interests are within the Commodore computers, I suspect it may be quite useful, although I already have other means of software transfers such as X-cables and CF adapter on my Amiga 1200. However, perhaps in the future it will be possible to read/write Atari 8-bit disks too, and I envision that BBC disks should be writeable as well, since it already works with some standard PC controllers. 3.5" MSX should also work as it is, and that sums up my collection of floppy disk-able computers for now.
 
cwtool

cwtool

I actually sold my C64 setup before I got the Catweasel and started archiving floppies.

I was able to create image files with the Catweasel imagetool3. Given that those are FM disks, I also think you'd be able to read them with cw2dmk. I haven't tested my archive files yet by writing the image back out to floppy.

Probably a better tool is "cwtool" by Karsten Scheibler (http://www.unusedino.de/cw). There appears to be extensive support for Commodore diskettes.

I've exchanged a few e-mails with him about getting the Apple II disks read. I was able to create an image file, but the my Apple //c couldn't read the disk I created after writing back out the image file. I feel like we're almost there...

-Matt
 
I never understood the 100 tpi-ness on 8050/8250/1001 disk drives. Most floppies available are 96 tpi DD (a.k.a. "QD"), although I know some brands manufactured special 100 tpi floppies in the beginning. If I format and use a 96 tpi floppy on a 8250, will I eventually get read errors none the less? I thought it was a marketing gimmick.

I don't think it was entirely a marketing gimmick back in the old days with floppies being what they were, especially the 96TPI vs 48TPI issue (although I doubt that there's much difference between 96 and 100TPI). I certainly had problems back then using DD disks instead of QD disks but AFAIK it was a matter of testing and certification of the same disks: if they passed the test at 96TPI then that's how they were sold; if not, or they were untested then they were 48TPI.

But the quality improved somewhat in later years (unlike 3.5" disks, apparently ;-) and newer DD disks seem to work OK in 96 or 100TPI drives.

FWIW, I never had more than the occasional error with old disks of pretty well any type on my 8050; double density, quad density, hard or soft sector, it seems to like 'em all (but I'd make archival backups in any case ;-)

mike
 
Yeah well. The follow-up question is if there exists 5.25" floppy drives compatible to connect to a PC (or Catweasel card) that can read/write 100 tpi. I suppose it could be so the 8050 drive mechanism has a theoretical max of 100 tpi but formats 77 tracks. When read back on a drive of max 96 tpi those tracks will lie "off-track", if you see how I mean.
 
Yeah well. The follow-up question is if there exists 5.25" floppy drives compatible to connect to a PC (or Catweasel card) that can read/write 100 tpi. I suppose it could be so the 8050 drive mechanism has a theoretical max of 100 tpi but formats 77 tracks. When read back on a drive of max 96 tpi those tracks will lie "off-track", if you see how I mean.

Hi Carlsson,
Yes, there are several. The one I have had luck with is the Tandon TM100-4M. It connects directly to either the PC floppy controller or the Catweasel.

I was able to get the BIOS on my test PC to recognise the Tandon TM100-4M as a DSQD 720K floppy -- really it thought it was a 3.5" floppy but it worked perfectly just the same. It formatted disks and did all the normal stuff.

Regarding the Catweasel, I am using Tandon TM100-4M to read Vector Graphic disks to make images. So far, I have made about 50+ disk images.

Thanks!

Andrew Lynch

PS, I am still looking for 100tpi disk mechanisms. If anyone has any spare, scrap, or broken 100tpi drives (any type) please let me know. I have had some luck repairing the drives. I'd especially like to find a double sided Tandon mechanism from a dead CBM 8250
 
Yeah, well. You PM'ed me before and I forgot about it. I'll look to see if I can find some broken 100 tpi drives. But those mechanisms found inside a 8250 would not be possible to connect to an IBM PC as they are?
 
Yeah, well. You PM'ed me before and I forgot about it. I'll look to see if I can find some broken 100 tpi drives. But those mechanisms found inside a 8250 would not be possible to connect to an IBM PC as they are?

Hi Carlsson,

No, as they are inside the CBM 8250 they won't work on an IBM PC but I might be able to use them to repair some other Tandon drives since they have many common parts. Same for the Micropolis mechanisms.

Commodore used the bare mechanisms in their CBM 8250/8050 drives and provided their own controller. The drives used in the IBM PC have an additional controller PCB on top of the mechanism.

One of my Tandon TM100-4M's has a bad mechanism but I repaired the controller. If I were to get a good mechanism, I could repair it entirely and use it for data recovery with the Catweasel.

It's worth a try since as it is, this drive is basically not useable but cannot be replaced. The worst part about it is that only the write head on the top head (head 1) is bad and the rest of the drive mechanism works fine.

Thanks!

Andrew Lynch
 
Back
Top