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Found PET at estate sale

classiccomputing

Experienced Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2006
Messages
167
Location
Johns Creek, GA (Atlanta)
Hello everyone,

I was fortunate to find this PET at a recent estate sale. It was running and the display was on with unclear static on it. I shut it off, waited a moment and powered it back on, and the same thing. So, my question is, for anyone who might mentor me with this, what do I do first in regard to cleaning it, and how, with what, etc.? Appreciate any guidance, thanks.

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Well snagged!

Oh, it has an add-on goody!

>>> with unclear static on it.

You will have to explain further what you mean by this. Do you mean that the screen had random characters on it? If so, can you post a photograph.

I would have suggested NOT just turning it on to start with, but you have already done that now I am afraid...

Dave
 
If you're just referring to the dust, I use an air compressor and/or vacuum cleaner and a paintbrush.

Anything that resists that simple cleaning probably needs hot water, and you can wash the entire board that way.
The only thing you really have to be careful about is not allowing any water to remain trapped inside the sockets.
I don't use solvents (e.g. flux stripper) unless there's some kind of non-water-soluble crap.
 
Incidentally, please don't lift the top of the PET up that high, you are stressing the cable between the logic board and the keyboard.

If you look in the front of the lower section of the base you will see an 'arm' that swings up that you can rest the top on with safety.

Dave
 
Looks like a good dynamic PET that will clean up well.

For the IC's in sockets, their pins will likely need a cleanup and the socket claws checked for tension and cleaned, they are the white single wipe types. And cleaning the connectors. After cleaning, it is the usual things like checking the power supplies first and checking for a normal reset & boot. The upper DRAM bank is in sockets so they can be removed initially and added and checked later. Or the usual tests switching the RAM banks with the CAS signals swapped. Normally people check the hardware first with a NOP generator and then move to the PETTESTER. It would not be a surprise if one or both of the video SRAM chips was defective.

The brush and vacuum gets rid of most of the surface debris. After that it can be required to contact cleaner (such as CRC's CO product) and cue tips to clean up the pcb. If the pcb ends up with a lacklustre look as often they can after extensive surface oxidation and cleaning, its cosmetic appearance can be improved by rubbing it down with a cotton cloth soaked in Inox's MX-3, then using dry cloths to remove that until no more transfers back from the pcb surface to the cloth. The microscopic amount then sits in surface pits and improves the optical appearance of the board, sometimes making it look like new.

(CO contact cleaner completely evaporates, there can be some moisture left from cooling and condensation. On the other hand if you use water, its difficult to get the IC's sockets to dry in a reasonable time frame, it gets trapped in there and accelerates corrosion, for this reason don't put the board in a dishwasher either)

It is highly unlikely that any of the electrolytic caps on this board are defective, don't change them because somebody on youtube says so. On the other hand, the Tant capacitors near the regulators have a penchant for shorting out so they should be checked +/- replaced.

You can treat the rust (on the transformer laminations and elsewhere) by removing most of it with 600 abrasive paper and then painting the surface with a small brush with Fertan organic rust converter (it is a clear yellow fluid that converts the rust into harmless blue-black organic compound). This will also soak into the gaps between the laminations and deactivate the rust there, you can paint over it too if you wish with black paint.

I like that Microtech Portmaker RS232 port add on.

Presumably the ROM Contains everything that makes it work ?

I wonder if that has been reverse engineered, with the pcb, and ROM dump and a manual for its operations or if that is documented anywhere ?
 
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The brush and vacuum gets rid of most of the surface debris. After that it can be required to contact cleaner (such as CRC's CO product) and cue tips to clean up the pcb. If the pcb ends up with a lacklustre look as often they can after extensive surface oxidation and cleaning, its cosmetic appearance can be improved by rubbing it down with a cotton cloth soaked in Inox's MX-3, then using dry cloths to remove that until no more transfers back from the pcb surface to the cloth. The microscopic amount then sits in surface pits and improves the optical appearance of the board, sometimes making it look like new.

(CO contact cleaner completely evaporates, there can be some moisture left from cooling and condensation. On the other hand if you use water, its difficult to get the IC's sockets to dry in a reasonable time frame, it gets trapped in there and accelerates corrosion, for this reason don't put the board in a dishwasher either)

Myself, I don't care much for "contact cleaners" that don't carry a lubricant - they're of
very limited usefulness, but something like this CRC stuff isn't going to hurt anything.
It looks more like a degreaser than anything else, and I doubt you have a grease problem.

As for water-washing boards, I've been known to use the dishwasher (without detergent!)
when assembling boards with water-soluble flux. I wouldn't recommend it in this case
either, but if you unsocket the chips beforehand and use a heat gun (carefully!) or hair
dryer after hand-washing it, you'll drive the water out of the sockets, from beneath the
chips, etc.
 
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Myself, I don't care much for "contact cleaners" that don't carry a lubricant - they're of
very limited usefulness, but something like this CRC stuff isn't going to hurt anything.
It looks more like a degreaser than anything else, and I doubt you have a grease problem.

I don't think there is a grease problem either, far from it looking at the pcb, but really it requires a solvent that won't attack inks, dyes, the surface coatings on the pcb, but still helps to clean off the debris and fully evaporates. Lubricants are better added later.

Water, in ts deionzed form (which most people don't have on hand) is ok if applied sparingly on cue tips for cleaning, but not to dunk the whole pcb in it. Most dishwashers are plumbed to the dwelling's water supply and depending on the locality can contain all sorts of particulate matter and various salts. Ok for a Human being, since we were designed to drink out of natural pools and river beds, but not so good for IC sockets.
 
I'm sorry, but the water-okay-if-applied-sparingly-and-reverently-with-an-archival-quality-Q-Tip-by-Himalayan-virgins thing is just a little too obsessive for me. We're not restoring the Mona Lisa here, folks.

If you're concerned about the dissolved solids in the water (which you really needn't be), use RO water, but go ahead and scrub 'er down with a toothbrush or anything else that'll fit between the packages and get under them and between the pins a little. You're not going to damage anything.
 
I wouldn't put it in a dishwasher (ew, that's were your dishes and other food related items go)... liquid dish washing detergent or soap, a brush and warm (slightly hot) water will do the trick.

I remove all socketed or otherwise removable parts, clean it, rinse it with deionised water or PCB cleaner and let it dry for a day or two near a radiator on in the sun.
pcb.jpg

After it's dry, use contact lubricant on the sockets... reassemble and enjoy a squeaky clean board
 
Not terrible advice, close enough to what I said, except for the lubing-the-sockets thing. They're not designed to require it.

The "warm (slightly hot) water" thing, though, is still too fussy. More people here need to visit circuit shops (where the PCBs are made) and CMs (contract manufacturers, where they're assembled). I've spent time in both, and seen old-school big-ass wave soldering machines in action as well as (modern) SMT IR reflow lines. These boards are not handled with kid gloves, and they get good and hot. You have to try very hard to damage a board (including the solder mask or silk screen) by cleaning it. So relax.
 
Looks like a good dynamic PET that will clean up well.

For the IC's in sockets, their pins will likely need a cleanup and the socket claws checked for tension and cleaned, they are the white single wipe types. And cleaning the connectors. After cleaning, it is the usual things like checking the power supplies first and checking for a normal reset & boot. The upper DRAM bank is in sockets so they can be removed initially and added and checked later. Or the usual tests switching the RAM banks with the CAS signals swapped. Normally people check the hardware first with a NOP generator and then move to the PETTESTER. It would not be a surprise if one or both of the video SRAM chips was defective.

The brush and vacuum gets rid of most of the surface debris. After that it can be required to contact cleaner (such as CRC's CO product) and cue tips to clean up the pcb. If the pcb ends up with a lacklustre look as often they can after extensive surface oxidation and cleaning, its cosmetic appearance can be improved by rubbing it down with a cotton cloth soaked in Inox's MX-3, then using dry cloths to remove that until no more transfers back from the pcb surface to the cloth. The microscopic amount then sits in surface pits and improves the optical appearance of the board, sometimes making it look like new.

(CO contact cleaner completely evaporates, there can be some moisture left from cooling and condensation. On the other hand if you use water, its difficult to get the IC's sockets to dry in a reasonable time frame, it gets trapped in there and accelerates corrosion, for this reason don't put the board in a dishwasher either)

It is highly unlikely that any of the electrolytic caps on this board are defective, don't change them because somebody on youtube says so. On the other hand, the Tant capacitors near the regulators have a penchant for shorting out so they should be checked +/- replaced.

You can treat the rust (on the transformer laminations and elsewhere) by removing most of it with 600 abrasive paper and then painting the surface with a small brush with Fertan organic rust converter (it is a clear yellow fluid that converts the rust into harmless blue-black organic compound). This will also soak into the gaps between the laminations and deactivate the rust there, you can paint over it too if you wish with black paint.

I like that Microtech Portmaker RS232 port add on.

Presumably the ROM Contains everything that makes it work ?

I wonder if that has been reverse engineered, with the pcb, and ROM dump and a manual for its operations or if that is documented anywhere ?
Thank you for the great advice Hugo, I'm going to first brush and vacuum all of the surfaces really well, and then use the CRC contact cleaner, then I'll turn it on again and take a picture of what it does on the screen. Can you please clarify exactly which CRC product to buy though? There are a few different ones on Amazon. Maybe this one? https://www.amazon.com/CRC-Industries-03130-Contact-Cleaner/dp/B000RY5D0G
 
Thank you for the great advice Hugo, I'm going to first brush and vacuum all of the surfaces really well, and then use the CRC contact cleaner, then I'll turn it on again and take a picture of what it does on the screen. Can you please clarify exactly which CRC product to buy though? There are a few different ones on Amazon. Maybe this one? https://www.amazon.com/CRC-Industries-03130-Contact-Cleaner/dp/B000RY5D0G
Oh wait, I found it, but this stuff must be discontinued or made out of gold dust! Is there an affordable alternative I can use instead? https://www.cityelectricsupply.com/crc-02016-co-contact-cleaner-14-ounce
 
Yeah, well, if you take a peek at their site, you'll see that CRC doesn't sell it in the US, so you're looking at buying it from a Canadian company.

Funny, that... I keep running into American products (e.g. an Amsoil lube) that are illegal in Canada and I have to bounce down into Montana to buy them.

And the automotive AC refrigerant situation between the two countries is just bonkers.
 
Yeah, well, if you take a peek at their site, you'll see that CRC doesn't sell it in the US, so you're looking at buying it from a Canadian company.
I buy it at ACE Hardware and Harbor Freight. Easily found in the US.
 
Oh wait, I found it, but this stuff must be discontinued or made out of gold dust! Is there an affordable alternative I can use instead? https://www.cityelectricsupply.com/crc-02016-co-contact-cleaner-14-ounce
This is the one we use in AU, the USA one might have a different label:



Due to the price of that though, many electronic workshops use this:


 
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Not terrible advice, close enough to what I said, except for the lubing-the-sockets thing. They're not designed to require it.

The "warm (slightly hot) water" thing, though, is still too fussy. More people here need to visit circuit shops (where the PCBs are made) and CMs (contract manufacturers, where they're assembled). I've spent time in both, and seen old-school big-ass wave soldering machines in action as well as (modern) SMT IR reflow lines. These boards are not handled with kid gloves, and they get good and hot. You have to try very hard to damage a board (including the solder mask or silk screen) by cleaning it. So relax.
...and they're put into a washing machine after soldering, too.

Anyway, another way to help drive out water after a wash-down is to liberally spritz the board with ~90% IPA. The alcohol will readily mix with the water, and the result is much more volatile than just the water alone. Then, if your oven has a really low temperature setting (like 200F or below), you can use that to speed up the evaporation process.
 
If you have clean compressed air to blast the water out, i'd use it. I was watching Mr Usagi the other day, he washed boards, dried them in the sun then used compressed air.
Which is opposite to me - I air blast the final wash water out of the board as much and as soon as possible, then dry in the sun. If you use compressed air from a compressor then be aware if you have an oiler in the line then oil mist can end up on the board. I don't use one (I put a few drops of oil into air tools directly) but still use a separate clean hose for spray painting/air drying.
 
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