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Guidance needed for setting up floppy drives for my XT

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boggit

Experienced Member
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Jan 4, 2024
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While waiting for my barebones 5160 XT system to arrive by mail (as described here), I've started planning which storage devices to use for it. I've looked through several threads here, as well as many pages on minuszerodegrees, but I would really appreciate if someone would take a look at this and tell me if I'm correct in my assumptions or not.

1. I've ordered this XTIDE card to use as harddrive and bought this compact flash card to use with it. I plan to install PC DOS 7.1/2000 on it.

2. I'm thinking about buying one 3.5" floppy drive and one full-height 5.25" 360 drive.

3. I know that the standard IBM floppy drive controller in the 5160 does not support 1.44 mb floppy disks, but that such a drive can be used as a 720 kb drive. In the future, I will probably buy one of these in order to enable full 1.44 mb capacity, but that will be a month or so into the future (as I have already spent way more than what I should on old computer stuff this month).

QUESTION: When buying a cheap 1.44 mb 3.5" drive off Ebay, is there anything in particular that I should keep in mind? Are there internal 3.5" drives that won't vibe with an XT system? Would something like this work, for example?

4. To turn the 3.5" drive into half height, I'm planning on buying a cheap tray such as this and put the disk drive in it.

QUESTION 1: Are there standardized measurements for such drives and mounting trays, so that I can just assume that it will fit nicely in the front panel of my XT, or are there certain considerations to make?

QUESTION 2: Besides the drive, the tray and some screws, is there anything else I need to mount the drive-in-tray in the front of my XT?

5. To make my XT setup more aesthetically pleasing, I've bought this half height face plate to put in the slot above or below the 3.5" drive.

QUESTION: Is there anything more that I need to fit the face plate into the half height slot (screws or what not), or will it be snugly attached by itself, as it were?
 
is there anything in particular that I should keep in mind?
-Only that they are defect.. But you never know.
Most of them have no jumpers at all, not even a Drive number select, so always use the data cross cable and so the 525 360k must be set for drive 1 (B)
And to select Drive A or B, just the chosen drive at end cable is the drive to be drive A (after the cross).

Its all standard size.
Beware of the 720k setting, as drive has no jumpers to force into low density, think you have to manually select, see data pinout ,pin 2.
I think its standard to be in 1,44 mode.
So start by try and error if drive will work in 720 mode as is.
I never attempt to mount a 1,44MB in my 5160.

2nd; I thought all windows above win95 does not support low density, 360k 525 and thought also 720k.
I know definitive a 360k FFD will not work only 1,2MB drives, and my USB 1,44 MB drive will not take any 720k formatted disks (WIN10).
Or as I read with USB 1,44 some special drive software or special settings to be changed, till win7, but not as a standard.

So beware of that use of low density disks with exchange software with modern PCs.

I use Parallel transfer programs to put easy and fast(relatively) software to my 5160.
Using a in between PC with parallel port and can handle USB-Sticks.

FX (FastLynx V2.0) ,beware special cable , serial or parallel, but all easy to find and build it your self.
With the serial cable you can even transfer the software to the remote computer.
See within program the how-to transfer method of the whole software to the remote.
laplink cable pinout, and you will find the pinout.

FX-Copy Parallel Kabel pinout

1 -> X 14-> X
2 ->15 15-> 2
3 ->13 16-> X
4 ->12 17-> X
5 ->10 18->18-GND
6 ->11 19->19-GND
7 -> X 20->20-GND
8 -> X 21->21-GND
9 -> X 22->22-GND
10-> 5 23->23-GND
11-> 6 24->24-GND
12-> 4 25->25-GND
13-> 3
 

Attachments

  • FastLynx 2.0.jpg
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Almost all 3.5" HD drives are "media sense". That is, the drive will operate in high-density mode if a high density disk is used, and correspondingly, will operate in low/double density if a double-density disk is used. However, a 5.25" drive does not use the same system and pin 2 comes into play. On most 3.5" drives, the pin is NC.

All drives in the PC world are set to the second drive select and cable with a twist is used. The drive after the twist is drive A:; the one before is drive B:.

Be aware that a 3.5" drive interfaces using a small 4-pin power connector and a 5.25" drive uses a larger "Molex" 4 pin connector. Similarly, the 5.25" drive uses a 34-conductor card-edge connector, whereas the 3.5" drive uses a standard 34-conductor "Berg" header. When the 3.5" to 5.25" mounting kits were in their heyday, adapters were sold for both the power cable and the signal cable.

If you want a good drive, stick with name brands. I've been a Teac adherent for longer than some here have been alive.

Also note that another possibility would be to use a "Combo" half-height drive, such as the Teac FD505, that includes both a 3.5" and a 5.25" drive in a single half-height 5.25" unit.
 
MauriceH said:
is there anything in particular that I should keep in mind?
-Only that they are defect.. But you never know.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, I don't quite follow?

MauriceH said:
Most of them have no jumpers at all, not even a Drive number select, so always use the data cross cable and so the 525 360k must be set for drive 1 (B)
And to select Drive A or B, just the chosen drive at end cable is the drive to be drive A (after the cross).
Click to expand...

Great! Good to know. The controller card that I've currently got installed seems to be this one (the later release) by the way.

MauriceH said:
Its all standard size.
Click to expand...

Good. And how do I mount a tray like that in the upper half of the left or right slot? I couldn't really find any rails or anywhere to mount screws in the front floppy/harddrive holder of the XT.

Also, what about the face plate? Will it just pop in if I try to fit it there?

MauriceH said:
2nd; I thought all windows above win95 does not support low density, 360k 525 and thought also 720k.
I know definitive a 360k FFD will not work only 1,2MB drives, and my USB 1,44 MB drive will not take any 720k formatted disks (WIN10).
Or as I read with USB 1,44 some special drive software or special settings to be changed, till win7, but not as a standard.

So beware of that use of low density disks with exchange software with modern PCs.
Click to expand...

I'm 99.5 % certain that it is possible to use 720 kb/DD disks in Windows 10, and there are certainly USB drives (such as the ones from IBM) which many people have said works perfectly fine with reading and writing to 720 kb disks.

MauriceH said:
I use Parallel transfer programs to put easy and fast(relatively) software to my 5160.
Using a in between PC with parallel port and can handle USB-Sticks.

FX (FastLynx V2.0) ,beware special cable , serial or parallel, but all easy to find and build it your self.
With the serial cable you can even transfer the software to the remote computer.
See within program the how-to transfer method of the whole software to the remote.
laplink cable pinout, and you will find the pinout.

FX-Copy Parallel Kabel pinout

1 -> X 14-> X
2 ->15 15-> 2
3 ->13 16-> X
4 ->12 17-> X
5 ->10 18->18-GND
6 ->11 19->19-GND
7 -> X 20->20-GND
8 -> X 21->21-GND
9 -> X 22->22-GND
10-> 5 23->23-GND
11-> 6 24->24-GND
12-> 4 25->25-GND
13-> 3
Click to expand...

Great, thanks for the advice! I might look into that (though not make one myself).

Big thanks for taking your time to help me, Maurice!
 
Chuck(G) said:
On most 3.5" drives, the pin is NC.
Click to expand...
I see. What does that mean, that the pin is NC?

Chuck(G) said:
All drives in the PC world are set to the second drive select and cable with a twist is used. The drive after the twist is drive A:; the one before is drive B:.

Be aware that a 3.5" drive interfaces using a small 4-pin power connector and a 5.25" drive uses a larger "Molex" 4 pin connector. Similarly, the 5.25" drive uses a 34-conductor card-edge connector, whereas the 3.5" drive uses a standard 34-conductor "Berg" header.
Click to expand...
Good to know. I seem to have a standard IBM floppy disk controller (the later version, as I stated in my reply to MauriceH above) which only has edge connectors. I take it, then, that I have to buy adapters both for the power connector to the PSU and for connecting the drive to the FDC?

Could you perhaps provide a link or an image so that I know what the adapter/cable looks like so I know what to look for?

Chuck(G) said:
If you want a good drive, stick with name brands. I've been a Teac adherent for longer than some here have been alive.
Click to expand...
I'll keep that in mind! What about the Sony disk drive that I linked to in the first post of this thread? Would that be name brand enough?

Chuck(G) said:
Also note that another possibility would be to use a "Combo" half-height drive, such as the Teac FD505, that includes both a 3.5" and a 5.25" drive in a single half-height 5.25" unit.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I looked at a few such devices on Ebay, but I think the full height 5.25 ones look really nice, so I'll probably get one of those just for the aestethic value.

Big thanks to you too, for taking the time to post your reply!
 
Last edited:
Chuck(G) said:
Similarly, the 5.25" drive uses a 34-conductor card-edge connector, whereas the 3.5" drive uses a standard 34-conductor "Berg" header.
Click to expand...

Would something like this be sufficient? for using a 3.5 floppy drive with my original 5160 FDC?
 
Last edited:
Chuck(G) said:
Be aware that a 3.5" drive interfaces using a small 4-pin power connector and a 5.25" drive uses a larger "Molex" 4 pin connector.
Click to expand...
And would this work for supplying power to the 3.5 drive?

With both this question and the one right above taken in the context of using this particular FDD:

s-l1600.jpg
 
Last edited:
boggit said:
Are there standardized measurements for such drives and mounting trays, so that I can just assume that it will fit nicely in the front panel of my XT, or are there certain considerations to make?
Click to expand...

Yes, it's standardized. And you have 3.5 to 5.25 front adapter if you need that.

boggit said:
Besides the drive, the tray and some screws, is there anything else I need to mount the drive-in-tray in the front of my XT?
Click to expand...

Nope that should be it.

boggit said:
Is there anything more that I need to fit the face plate into the half height slot (screws or what not), or will it be snugly attached by itself, as it were?
Click to expand...

Again that should be enough, the plate will have foldable plastic at the side that'll slide in and keep it tight.

boggit said:
And would this work for supplying power to the 3.5 drive?
Click to expand...

Yup.

P.S. I would avoid installing such high version on the DOS on the XT. There's a lot there you don't need. From other thread I can see you have 256k of RAM. DOS 3.3 should be good for you, DOS 3.31 if you want to move to larger than 32MB partitions. You're not getting anything out of the DOS 5 and up for your XT apart from increased base memory usage.
 
Last edited:
Zare said:
Yes, it's standardized. And you have 3.5 to 5.25 front adapter if you need that.



Nope that should be it.



Again that should be enough, the plate will have foldable plastic at the side that'll slide in and keep it tight.



Yup.

P.S. I would avoid installing such high version on the DOS on the XT. There's a lot there you don't need. From other thread I can see you have 256k of RAM. DOS 3.3 should be good for you, DOS 3.31 if you want to move to larger than 32MB partitions. You're not getting anything out of the DOS 5 and up for your XT apart from increased base memory usage.
Click to expand...

Big thanks for answering my questions!

When it comes to PC DOS, from what I've understood, 7.1 is really quite economical when it comes to memory usage even for older machines. If it is as you say, though, then I'll stick with 3.31 until I get some more RAM installed.
 
NC - no connection; standard nomenclature for this sort of thing
The Sony drive will probably be okay if it's guaranteed as working.
Other things will be obvious as you work through this.
 
boggit said:
Big thanks for answering my questions!

When it comes to PC DOS, from what I've understood, 7.1 is really quite economical when it comes to memory usage even for older machines. If it is as you say, though, then I'll stick with 3.31 until I get some more RAM installed.
Click to expand...

DOS has had several big changes between versions 3 and 6, the rest is cosmetics and bundled applications. All applications have alternatives, and some of them, like QBasic will work over "incorrect DOS version". For instance if you miss DOS 5 and up GUI tools you can install Norton Utilities or something alike to a earlier DOS version.

Those changes are mostly about memory support.
Since you're probably never going to extend your XT above basic 640kB you don't need any of it.

But you can also test multiple versions on multiple CFs. You can run large CFs like 4/8G too.
 
Zare said:
DOS has had several big changes between versions 3 and 6, the rest is cosmetics and bundled applications. All applications have alternatives, and some of them, like QBasic will work over "incorrect DOS version". For instance if you miss DOS 5 and up GUI tools you can install Norton Utilities or something alike to a earlier DOS version.

Those changes are mostly about memory support.
Since you're probably never going to extend your XT above basic 640kB you don't need any of it.

But you can also test multiple versions on multiple CFs. You can run large CFs like 4/8G too.
Click to expand...

Excellent. Thanks!

By the way, if I've understood it correctly, the XT CF LITE 4.1 isn't hooked up to the Hard drive controller. Thus, I can remove the HDC board entirely from the motherboard. Is that correct?
 
"..I'm 99.5 % certain that it is possible to use 720 kb/DD disks in Windows 10, and there are certainly USB drives (such as the ones from IBM) which many people have said works perfectly fine with reading and writing to 720 kb disks...

Found other USB FFD drive, indeed no problems reading 720k attached to Win 10.
So probably something wrong with the 720K detection switch that drive.
Learned something too today :))

The the XT CF LITE 4.1 is the complete new harddrive system, so remove the old one.
 
MauriceH said:
Most of them have no jumpers at all, not even a Drive number select, so always use the data cross cable and so the 525 360k must be set for drive 1 (B)
Click to expand...

I just realized, what if I want to use two 3.5 drives instead (rather than one 3.5 and one 5.25)? How do I manage that, if the 3.5 drives lack drive number select?
 
Cable position. You have master end on the cable and slave end in the mid.
You can interchange HDDs via cable position too, if both drives aren't jumped to either master or slave but cable select mode.
 
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