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KAYPRO and KayFreHD as a hard disk module

Hi Peter,
if you mean "Frank" (instead of "Fred") the base for the image sent by me is:
You have to have an Kaypro 84 with the embedded WD1002 connector.
You have to use the Advent ROM (which is included in my zip-file), not the KayPlus ROM!
Alll disk files (hard*) have to be on the SD-card.

Regards,
Frank
 
Frank S said:
Hi Peter,
if you mean "Frank" (instead of "Fred") the base for the image sent by me is:
You have to have an Kaypro 84 with the embedded WD1002 connector.
You have to use the Advent ROM (which is included in my zip-file), not the KayPlus ROM!
Alll disk files (hard*) have to be on the SD-card.

Regards,
Frank
Click to expand...

Ooops! I meant Frank! I think I have FreHD on the brain at the moment. I have an 84 Kaypro 10 with the connector. I looked at your image file with a hex editor after I emailed you and saw the Advent Turborom reference in it. I did have all three of your files on the SD card. Unfortunately my turborom won't come up. I get the sign on message and then it just hangs with no keyboard response at all. It could be a bad eprom. I am going to reprogram it tomorrow and see if that does anything.
 
Hi Peter,
bad news. The Kaypro 10 needs a different SD-card image. The ROM-image that i include is for the 84' models and is also for the 10.
I have no SD-card image for the 10, so you have to build your own.
To get sure which board is in your 10, please take a picture from it and his P/N.
For reference take a look here: http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?11479-Kaypro-10-84-MTC-Restoration-Refurbishment
Frank

Code: 
1.3.1. Compatibility, '83 TurboROM

This product is a 4K EPROM.  This version of the TurboROM is 
designed for the Kaypro II and Kaypro 4 computers.  These 
products can be identified by the two full size floppy disk 
drives and by the presence of one serial I/O port on the back.

For installation on early Kaypro II computers, an adapter kit or 
circuit modifications are required for installation.  The 
TurboROM Adapter Kit is available for this application from 
Advent Products.  Please refer to Chapter 2 in this manual for 
further information.


1.3.2. Compatibility, ProGRAPHICS TurboROM

This version of the TurboROM is designed for the Kaypro II and 
Kaypro 4 products that are using the Advent Products ProGRAPHICS 
video enhancement.  This version of the TurboROM adds screen dump 
capability to the ProGRAPHICS system.

For installation on early Kaypro II computers, and adapter kit or 
circuit modifications are required for installation.  The 
TurboROM Adapter Kit is available for this application from 
Advent Products.  Please refer to Chapter 2 in this manual for 
further information.


1.3.3. Compatibility, '84 TurboROM

This product is an 8K EPROM.  This version of the TurboROM is 
designed for the newer Kaypro products including the Kaypro 1, 
2X, 4X, and 4'84.  These products can be identified by half 
height floppy disk drives and the presence of two serial I/O 
ports on the back.


1.3.4. Compatibility, 10 TurboROM

This version of the TurboROM is designed for the Kaypro 10.  The 
actual TurboROM is the same as is used in the '84 TurboROM 
product, however the software portion of the product is slightly 
different, to fit the needs of the Kaypro 10.
 
Last edited:
Aha! That explains a lot. Unfortunately my Wellon VO-280 crapped out on me last night. I am getting a new programmer but it il be a week before I get it. In the meantime here is a picture of my Kaypro board. The serial number on the left bottom is 3974 and the board is marked 44/84. The little board on the right is Geneb's interface.

Kaypo10-1.jpg
 
I love how you installed that! I would have used two cables. :) It never occurred to me to solder on a female connector to the board and plug it straight in. Good job!

g.
 
geneb said:
I love how you installed that! I would have used two cables. :) It never occurred to me to solder on a female connector to the board and plug it straight in. Good job!

g.
Click to expand...

Actually I started like you with two cables and then got fed up with all the ribbon cable and added the female plug. It does work well and avoids having to find a place to park the adapter board.
 
Kayplus image file

Kayplus image file

Andrew and Frank - I need an image for the FreHD that will work with the Kayplus rom. As Frank indicated above his images were for the Turborom and my Turborom won't come up. If an image is not available somewhere, how do I go about making one? If I had a working hard drive I suppose I could image that after formatting it with the Kayplus but my mfm drives are all kaput. Is there some magic way to generate an appropriate image with software? I looked on Matthew Reed's site but I did not see anything that would do the job. I have Matthew's Model 4 emulator but as far as I can see it only deals with floppy images.
 
Hi Peter,
I don't recommend the use of the KayPlus ROMs. They are unreliable and some programs don't run with it.
You are in the lucky position that you have a Kaypro 10. So you have a complete set of installation floppies (have you?).
With your original Kaypro 10 ROM, the FreHD and the Utility programs you are able to create an empty image on the SD-card with the right sector size (i think 1024 Byte/s).
Then you install all the installation floppies. Thats the theory :D.

Regards,
Frank
 
Frank S said:
Hi Peter,
I don't recommend the use of the KayPlus ROMs. They are unreliable and some programs don't run with it.
You are in the lucky position that you have a Kaypro 10. So you have a complete set of installation floppies (have you?).
With your original Kaypro 10 ROM, the FreHD and the Utility programs you are able to create an empty image on the SD-card with the right sector size (i think 1024 Byte/s).
Then you install all the installation floppies. Thats the theory :D.

Regards,
Frank
Click to expand...

... and make sure you have 2.14 Firmware for the FreHD. That is the only version that supports sector sizes other than 256 bytes.
 
Thanks, Frank! You have been a big help. I do have the 2.14 firmware installed so sector sizes won't be an issue. Now to test the theory!
 
Osh Park accidentally shorted me a board on my order, so they made up for it by sending me another full order. I've now got more of those little adapter boards than I will EVER use. If someone here needs one, send me a PM and I'll send you one (Osh Park didn't charge me for the "extra" boards, so I'm passing that cost on to you. :D ).

Cellarcat, if you're able to get a good K10 image made, can you send me a copy?

g.
 
Absolutely!

geneb said:
Osh Park accidentally shorted me a board on my order, so they made up for it by sending me another full order. I've now got more of those little adapter boards than I will EVER use. If someone here needs one, send me a PM and I'll send you one (Osh Park didn't charge me for the "extra" boards, so I'm passing that cost on to you. :D ).

Cellarcat, if you're able to get a good K10 image made, can you send me a copy?

g.
Click to expand...
 
OK. I have finally managed to get the FreHD working with my Kaypro 10 after an all weekend session that actually had nothing to do with the FreHD and everything to do with my ancient Kaypro 10 which decided to show its age and get cantankerous with me. I won't bore you with the details!

I couldn't find a binary anywhere for the Kaypro version of VHDUTL so I compiled it from Fred Vecoven's source with ZMAC. If you compile it yourself the output file you will want is the .cim file. Just rename it as a .com file.

The current image works with the 81-302 rom in the Kaypro 10 but be aware that you have to initially boot up with a floppy and then use VHDUTL to mount the image. The command is as follows: VHDUTL (MNT, ADDR=2, VHD="HARD4-0"). Please note that ADDR must be 2. This initially foxed me because the Kaypro hard disk format program sees drives as 0,1,2,3 whereas VHDUTL sees drives as 1,2,3,4. In fact the Kaypro software actually only sees drive 1. The only entry to the first question with HDFORMAT that will work is 1,1.

I hope to get my new Eprom programmer this week and then I can get it working with the Turborom and the Kayplus.

If you want copies of the files send me a private message with your email and I will get them off to you. I would add them to this post but I don't think I can.
 
Well done. Great to see another Kaypro benefiting from the FreHD.

Try renaming your image as hard4-2. The FreHD firmware should auto mount this as drive 2. On the Kaypro 4/83 and 2 we use hard4-1 because the Advent firmware expects to boot from drive 1.
 
I tried your suggestion but no autoboot from the computer starting up cold. Once I use vhdutl to mount the SD image then as long as the computer stays on it will automatically boot. I am somewhat puzzled by this because I thought the SD firmware automatically mounted the image. If I do a mnt check with vhdutl it shows the hard4-0 as being mounted.

jaquinn said:
Well done. Great to see another Kaypro benefiting from the FreHD.

Try renaming your image as hard4-2. The FreHD firmware should auto mount this as drive 2. On the Kaypro 4/83 and 2 we use hard4-1 because the Advent firmware expects to boot from drive 1.
Click to expand...
 
Aha! I changed the file to hard4-1 and it autobooted which makes sense because I created it as drive 2. Thanks for the prod in the right direction!

jaquinn said:
Well done. Great to see another Kaypro benefiting from the FreHD.

Try renaming your image as hard4-2. The FreHD firmware should auto mount this as drive 2. On the Kaypro 4/83 and 2 we use hard4-1 because the Advent firmware expects to boot from drive 1.
Click to expand...
 
cellarcat said:
Aha! I changed the file to hard4-1 and it autobooted which makes sense because I created it as drive 2. Thanks for the prod in the right direction!
Click to expand...

That makes sense. FreHD (and WD1010) count drives from 0 but it doesn't mean the Kaypro documentation does when explaining things to end users. When we did the initial Kaypro work I am sure I read in the Advent and KayPlus docs they boot from Drive 1... and they are referring to the hard disk number as seen by the controller, not the user.

I don't know if a Kaypro 10 is faster than the 4/83 so hopefully the FreHD initializes and mounts the volumes quickly enough that they are ready for the Kaypro when it tries to boot. If the race is too tight and it misses then you might need to press reset on the Kaypro to boot it again. So far I have had no problems with the 4/83.
 
It seems to boot fine but I am finding the system to be quite flaky. Copying files results in a number of files with errors and pip takes on a life of its own and becomes quite unpredictable. I'm wondering if I need to use a different SD card. Did you find that certain cards work better than others? I have had issues with Sandisk flash memory in the past.

jaquinn said:
That makes sense. FreHD (and WD1010) count drives from 0 but it doesn't mean the Kaypro documentation does when explaining things to end users. When we did the initial Kaypro work I am sure I read in the Advent and KayPlus docs they boot from Drive 1... and they are referring to the hard disk number as seen by the controller, not the user.

I don't know if a Kaypro 10 is faster than the 4/83 so hopefully the FreHD initializes and mounts the volumes quickly enough that they are ready for the Kaypro when it tries to boot. If the race is too tight and it misses then you might need to press reset on the Kaypro to boot it again. So far I have had no problems with the 4/83.
Click to expand...
 
I got my Advent Turborom working with the FreHD but it will not recognize the floppy or boot from the floppy. Sheeesh! If it is't one thing it's another! I have a feeling this is where the 84 Turborom parts company with the K10 Turborom. Mine is the 84 version from Don Maslin's collection. Anybody out there have a binary for the K10 version?
 
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