• Please review our updated Terms and Rules here

My daughter can "hear" CRTs; impacts enjoyment of retro

Entire generations of children in the '70s, '80s, '90s (with their sharp young hearing) sure didn't seem to mind planting themselves in front of their TVs for hours on end, with the tubes merrily whining away. ;) There was a clear reward system in learning to tune it out...
 
I asked her to come back, and I turned off each monitor one at a time - she could "hear" both of them, but the Apple II running by itself didn't bother her.

Strictly speaking you could wire a speaker into your Apple II that would reproduce the frequency; the 15.7khz sound is the frequency of the horizontal sync signal, give me five minutes with the schematic and I can tell you where to tap it and feed it into a preamp, but obviously there's not a whole lot of point of doing that unless you *really* want to annoy her. The reason the CRTs make this frequency audible is they have big coils of wire inside of them (IE, the flyback transformer) which oscillate in a sawtooth pattern at this frequency to swing the electron beam back and forth across the screen. Unless the flyback is *extremely* solidly mounted and in perfect shape this action is going to make it vibrate, just like a speaker does. (Well, not *exactly*, the physical vibration is because of magnetostriction of the coil itself or its support structure rather than the field interacting with a permanent magnet or whatever that's *intended* to move, but you get the idea.) This is why the whole problem goes away if you use an LCD instead; you'll have the same Hsync frequency instructing a scaler circuit to "do things", but it's all happening on a practically quantum scale inside a piece of silicon. The only way you could possibly hear anything is, well, see below.

I just wonder if other folks are bothered by frequencies of other electronics - a kind of "your color red isn't the same as my color red" kind of effect -- or is it really mostly just that band around 15-16 khz?

It's not really related, but to this very day it's not that uncommon to find that your computer or whatever else that has a speaker or headphone jack is badly shielded/isolated between the digital and analog portions, resulting in random digital noise in the background. My Tandy 1000s are pretty atrocious in that respect; if you turn the volume up you can hear all sorts of little chirps and whirrs. Even on modern computers there are things like USB bus polling that happen at intervals that translate to audible frequencies. I suppose in theory if you had an absolutely catastrophically poorly designed LCD monitor that ran a sync line close enough to an audio amplifier line you could get crosstalk sufficient to reproduce a CRT frequency buzz. So far as I *know* nobody has ever screwed up that badly designing a monitor, but never underestimate any given industry's capacity for incompetence, I guess.

Other infamous sources of electronic noise (starting all the way down at the other end of the spectrum) are the buzzing you can hear from some kinds of light fixtures. Older folks can testify to the oppressive 120hz buzz old fluorescent light fixtures produced; the root cause is exactly the same as the noise from flyback transformers. Newer industrial fluorescent lights with electronic ballasts oscillate much faster, usually quoted at frequencies in the 20-40khz range, so the vast majority of adults can't hear them, but the low end of that range is still within the audible range of some lucky (or unlucky) kids. It's also not unknown for the filaments in incandescent bulbs to vibrate (I've heard it myself) at some harmonic of 60hz, and there used to be PWM dimmers that could make this worse.
 
When I started work in 1979 we had a terminal room with about 8 IBM 3278 terminals and I remember how annoying sitting in that room was. The terminals seemed to be just slightly different on their flyback frequency and it seemed like they would go in and out of phase with each other and the noise would move about the room. At least when we got terminals in our offices there was only one terminal to listen to in close vicinity.
 
Just like even retro people can't stand the sound of a real hard disk these days and must replace everything with a CF/SD card because of the "noise". :ROFLMAO:
To be fair they didn't have the bearing angle grinder sound of a well-worn drive when they were new. I wonder like with "8-bit" super pixelated imagery, it will someday be thought that drives were supposed to sound like that.
 
Model M keyboards (or "clicky" keyboards in general) are somewhat like this too. The noise was unremarkable back then; once "quiet" keyboards came out (early to mid 90s?) now that's the norm and Model M is extremely loud.
 
Model M keyboards (or "clicky" keyboards in general) are somewhat like this too. The noise was unremarkable back then; once "quiet" keyboards came out (early to mid 90s?) now that's the norm and Model M is extremely loud.
There were a number of utilities that simulated the key clicks with quieter keyboards. Even some of the CF/SD options are paired with software that played floppy sounds on every disk access.
 
There were a number of utilities that simulated the key clicks with quieter keyboards. Even some of the CF/SD options are paired with software that played floppy sounds on every disk access.
I have long had a pet-peeve - when I am on some irritating phone menu where you give them a response and then they play this clickety-click sound as though someone is on the other end typing in your response. I find this unnaceptable and believe that there should be a special punishment for the MBA who made the programmer build this into the system so he could brag about the feature to the board during his power point demonstration....."our research shows that customers find it calming (that's the way I am believing it happens)". Not sure what the punishment should be, but it should be harsh - maybe force them all to wear those dog blankets they sell that calm dogs during thunderstorms :)
 
I could easily hear the whine from the CRT's output transformer when I was in my 20s, I could tell if someone had a TV on simply by walking past their house. But that faded away over the years, while tinnitus increased.

Then one morning several years ago I woke up and I was suddenly hearing impaired - which still persists today. There's no chance of hearing any high frequencies now.

I remember that the whistling sound was actually quite loud, especially if you were at the back of the TV - the noise was deafening - I don't know how dogs and other animals can stand it.
 
I remember that the whistling sound was actually quite loud, especially if you were at the back of the TV - the noise was deafening - I don't know how dogs and other animals can stand it

A real joy of flyback noise was sometimes you could shut it up (or at least settle it down a little) by strategically slapping the set. I was probably a lot less kind than I should have been with whiny TVs back in the day.
 
The chassis used by the Philips-Magnavox-Commodore 1084 line was notorious for having flybacks that emitted a really loud and annoying whine. We had a few at the computer shop I worked at as security monitors. Many times we had to slap the thing because that noise would drive us nuts.
 
I have a spectrum analyser app on my phone - when the old (PAL) CRT TV gets turned on, there is a definite peak at around 15 point mumble kHz, which, being an old git, for me is inaudible.
 
30 years old is when people stop hearing the old 15KHz screens... Slightly younger for MDA, EGA and very few people can hear VGA, but some people with Athsma were able to hear it at times.


I made it to 37, but I know I have above average hearing for my age (I'm a lot older than that). How far do you make it?

The high frequency nerves in the ear are closest to the edge and are the first to accumulate long term damage. Hence why hearing loss with age is pretty unavoidable.

How ironic most audiophiles are usually in their later years when their hearing really sucks the most.... I guess they keep chasing what they have lost at any price.

Though modern hearing loss is a lot worse... Some kids can't even hear their mother speaking by the time they are 12.
 
This brings to mind the trick of the kids to use a high-frequency ring tone on their phones--inaudible to the adults.

Or the "Teen-Repellant" high frequency noise generators that some older people used to install in places where teens hang out to annoy them into moving away, because it doesn't annoy older people at all.
 
I made it to 37, but I know I have above average hearing for my age (I'm a lot older than that). How far do you make it?
Nice video, but I doubt the YouTube audio compression combined with bad speakers (no linear response) on the user's end will make this pretty inaccurate.
 
Modern youtube audio for a simple tone is pretty good - more than good enough for a simple test. It's not intended to replace hospital tests of course, but it's good enough for a rough test...

Interesting is how loud it is at 3 KHz. That's not because speakers suck, but because human hearing is most sensitive at 3KHz.
 
Still, you have to deal with speakers that have no linear frequency response, won't render higher frequencies at all, or have funky eq presets from the factory.

With high-quality studio monitors, it will probably be close to reality. But who is using such on a PC?
 
On most devices, YouTube's audio bandwidth extends up to 20 kHz, and then cuts off sharply above that point.

My videos featuring a CRT TV or CGA monitor do get some complaints from younger people who can hear the 15.75 kHz whine, but I've never seen anyone ever mention being able to hear the 18.432 kHz whine from an MDA/Hercules monitor.
 
Back
Top