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My daughter can "hear" CRTs; impacts enjoyment of retro

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voidstar78

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Earlier this year, my daughter told me she can tell when I'm "goofing around with the old computers" because she can hear the CRT - even a couple rooms away. And she confessed to me, that it gives her a mild headache (when in the same room, since it's louder then).

I recall reading that I think females, typically, can hear higher pitches/frequencies (I'm no biologist - but maybe an evolved sense to help detect dangers sooner, or just a side effect of smaller ears on average?).

Is it CRT's in particular, or maybe it is associated capacitors? (don't they start to emit more audible noise as they get closer to end of life?).

I don't think I have especially bad hearing - I do have a chronic tinnitus (ringing) so maybe I just automatically filter out this noise she is hearing. But I've never recalled noticing an obvious different pitch or tone or noise between when any CRT is on vs off. Or maybe it's a "young person" issue, though I grew up with lots of CRTs around me -- I don't recall ever noticing a specific noise, but then again maybe it contributed to tinnitus? (although I tend to think riding motorcycles maybe had more to do with that :) )

But that it is to such an extent that is causes her headaches, that's unfortunate since that sours the enjoyment of retro things (I mean if people in general have this issue, not only her specifically).

Was wondering what ya'll thought about this? There are studies about how music effects health, and more specifically how certain frequencies can effect health. Not to get too deep into it - but decades ago, as I understand it A4 was "standardized" to 440 Hz (so public pianos and instruments got tuned to that -- slightly effecting how some prior music now sounded, and some claiming the new standard was adversely effecting public health). Then there are the Zen folks who ring chimes and such at specific frequencies, claiming health benefits. Personally, all that has made me somewhat selective to music I listen to.

But aside from all that, can anyone else "hear" electronics? Or have a family member with an issue like this? My daughter couldn't stay long at the recent VCF in Dallas, since "the noises are starting to bother me" issue.
 
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Many people can hear the 15 KHz whine that a CRT does, me included. With age, the range of frequencies one can hear drops; also when being exposed to noise (loud music included) for a longer time.
 
15 to 20 kHz is the frequency range that is particular problematic.

We (old folk...) grew up with CRT televisions with a 15 kHz line oscillator. Our ears probably filtered it out. As we get older - and go to rock concerts etc. - our ear frequency response changes - and we become even less sensitive to these frequencies.

Younger folk are used to flat screen TVs that do not produce this noise - and their ears are more sensitive anyhow.

I would suggest your daughter wear some suitable ear plugs - or some trendy-looking ear defenders. It shouldn't take much to attenuate this noise.

Dave
 
As a kid I found line-whistle was very noticable. Now, at 68 I cant directly hear it, but my constant tinnitus seems to me to be a loud 15khz whistle, never varies, always the exact pitch.
Its noticable all the time and at a similar or higher level to ambient, and most invasive when trying to get to sleep. Whilst tinnitus is common I wonder if 'line whistle tinnitus' is a thing! Weird.
 
And yet they will happily put up with those damn cell phones that make everyone sound like a robot trying to rape my ear.
 
I used to could hear it when I was younger. And it sounded roughly like my tinnitus does now. It will be interesting to see 20 years from now if people who grew up without 15KHz CRTs will be able to hear it longer, if TV sets made that deafness worse. I guess it depends on how early it matters. By the early '00s (when I was 40), my main TV was a Sony Wega which I used in 480p mode, and everything else was LCD, but I'm pretty sure I couldn't hear it by then anyhow.

And this is why some places use "mosquito" sound generators to deter young people from loitering outside.

At least she's not going around with ear buds in all day.
 
Some CRTs produce more of the 15.75 kHz flyback whine than others -- it depends on how well-shielded the circuitry is. IBM monitors put everything in a metal cage to reduce interference, while cheaper brands have little or no shielding inside.

Color CRTs produce a stronger whine than monochrome ones, due to their higher voltage. Also if you're on the side or back of the monitor, it's going to be a lot louder than when you're sitting directly in front of it, especially if the monitor's cabinet has a lot of vent holes.

And if you're in a PAL region, there were TVs which double-scanned the 50 Hz video to 100 Hz to eliminate flicker. That will push the flyback frequency out of the audible range.
 
I long for the days when my hearing extended to 15.75 kHz. Damage from an ototoxic antibiotic drug (erythromycin) took out the upper octave of my hearing about 30 years ago.
 
I just don't understand the level that young people complain about this sound, these days. I get that we heard it all of the time when we were young, but it usually wasn't painful, if it were I doubt that we would have just "gotten used to it." I remember walking into classrooms and you could hear that whine and you knew it was going to be a good day because you'd get to watch a movie of some sort, and it wasn't going to be something ancient on 16mm or film strip.
 
Just like even retro people can't stand the sound of a real hard disk these days and must replace everything with a CF/SD card because of the "noise". :ROFLMAO:
 
When I was in my 20s I could still hear the 24KHz ultrasonic beams used in store security installations. Now, in my dotage, hearing is not my strong suite... :(
 
I hear it. On some youtube videos I can hear it. Quite proud of being able to recognize it for troubleshooting purposes. I'm not going to like losing that when I'm older. :c
 
I used to be proud of how well preserved my hearing was, a lot of 70's and 80's kids murdered their high-frequency response with overuse of headphones. (Which quite a few younger kids are doing today with earbuds, FWIW.) So, yeah, I'm well acquainted with that whine. But I've been saddened to discover that apparently I fried my ~15khz frequency band sometime between the late 'aughts and the mid 20teens; I think excessive exposure to datacenter noise took it out, despite at least making token efforts to grab earplugs if available. I still *can* detect it if the room is quiet enough and it's a color monitor, but I can't hear the two monochrome CRTs that are the only tube monitors I get the privilege of playing with much anymore.

FWIW, I can't say I ever *liked* the noise. The last CRT television I ever owned started whining around 2004 (which my roommate at the time couldn't hear at all) and it drove me batty enough it made me go out and buy my first (rear projection LCD) HDTV. I still had it lying around in 2006 and ended up giving it to my (then future) inlaws when their TV spontaneously combusted, and they happily used it for a few years without complaining about the whine either so, yeah, apparently my ears died sometime after that.

tradde said:
I beg to differ but enjoy the sounds of a real hard disk.
Click to expand...

I like the "clunky-clunky-clunky" noises well enough, but if they're making a high-pitched motor noise or, worse, a motor noise that has a "ticking" component to it, yeah, no, give me blessed silence over that.

Floppy drive noises, that's different. I love them. And not just the noise, the *feel*. Back in the day I had a habit of resting my hand lightly on top of the drive when I was booting a large program and feeling the reassuring "tick, tick, ticks" of the stepper. You got to know how every program should sound/feel if everything was working as it should.
 
@voidstar78 there are a couple of options that I can think of. First, CRT monitors are not required (nor is any other specific piece of hardware, no matter what folks say!) to enjoy retro. If you want to get your daughter involved, set up a machine with an LCD for her to use. Second, you could switch to a CRT with less whine. The amount of whine varies a ton between brands and models.

- Alex
 
I can hear my 15.7KHz 5153 very well, doesn't bother me whatsoever. One youtube "test" recently told me I can hear up to 17.8 KHz IIRC, which is apparently great for my age. Who knows what YT's audio compression does to these high frequencies, but if that's right I guess I won't be hearing any MDA monitors...

Hearing CRTs even a couple rooms away sounds a bit far fetched honestly. The higher the frequency, the more it gets filtered out by walls and various household items - I guess it's not impossible if the tube is a super-loud one and your daughter's ears are very sensitive.
 
I’ve also spent too much time in data centers. I can still hear 15.7khz, but it seems a lot more faint than it used to be.

I’m not suggesting that it was ever a pleasant sound, just that it wasn’t something to complain about. Maybe the headphone things is part of it though, maybe that makes it “feel” worse or louder or whatever for kids when watching a crt on a YouTube video.
 
Thanks all! My old Commodore PET is the only system I can't easily swap out an LCD to. Except that I got a MiniPET now with component video and an LCD - but just certain specific effects can't be replicated without the fade of classic phosphorous. I just recently got an Apple IIe that came with two CRTs - I set it up, and my daughter groaned "ugh, you can't hear that!?!" and ran out of the room. I asked her to come back, and I turned off each monitor one at a time - she could "hear" both of them, but the Apple II running by itself didn't bother her. I just wonder if other folks are bothered by frequencies of other electronics - a kind of "your color red isn't the same as my color red" kind of effect -- or is it really mostly just that band around 15-16 khz?

Yeah, I can replace those with LCDs, no problem - It's just she had never mentioned it before, and it made me consider a broader issue of trying to get kids interested into STEM related stuff (which sure, that doesn't always just mean electronic stuff). Not that we do much with CRT of 15khz stuff anymore.

Headphones might work - but then she can't hear me drone on about little endians and bits vs bytes. ha :) I guess she'd consider it a double win.
 
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