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New to IBM - recommend a video card for 5150

galarneau

galarneau

Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
16
I just picked up an IBM 5150, never had one before. Had a Commodore VIC 20 and 64 growing up, then Apples. Right now it has a 5151 display with the MDA video card. I have a 5153 CGA display on the way and now just need to get a CGA video card. While I'm sure the original IBM CGA display works great, is there any compelling reason to get a third party video card (something like an ATI Small Wonder or perhaps a VGA card that would be backwards compatible?)

If I had the option to also get something that would be compatible with both the 5151, 5153, and a VGA monitor, that would be great.

Any recommendations are most appreciated!
 
If you have a faster machine already with vga (286-pentium), I wouldnt worry too much and just use the stock IBM CGA card. What I ended up doing. You could use an EGA card I guess...
 
Original IBM CGA are quite expensive now, and since the OP doesn't already have one, I'd recommend going the EGA route instead. Or better yet just stick with the 5151 and the MDA. A stock 5150 is not a gaming machine and I'd personally favor the superior text on the 5151 vs some color
 
Well, let's just assume for the moment that I want to use a color monitor. Any recommendations other than an original IBM CGA card?
 
Some of the CGA clones don't suffer from snow. I'd say most but I don't have a comprehensive list. I found CGA snow very distracting resulting in only a short usage of text applications because a headache would result.

There was the possibility of having both a CGA card and a MDA card in the system at the same time but devoting two out of five slots to video may limit the system too much.
 
If you are going to go color and not CGA, then just use a VGA card and an LCD. What most of us do nowadays.
 
Agree on the VGA suggestion... just make sure you get a VGA card that can operate in 8-bit mode, as most cannot. And all VGA cards that I can think of are 16-bit ISA cards. So look for one that has jumpers/DIP settings for 8-bit only. Examples include the original Compaq VGA card.
 
galarneau said:
5153 CGA display on the way
Click to expand...
Most VGA cards can't use RGB/CGA monitors. There are some that are dual EGA/VGA and have connectors for both. Usually EGA cards can be configured to work with RGB/CGA monitors but are limited to the 200-scan line resolutions.

There was also a generation of third party enhanced CGA cards that added various resolutions, such as 640*200*16 as well as interlaced resolutions. But software support is very limited and differed from card to card.

Of course, with a genuine IBM CGA card you get all the fun of composite video artifacting.
 
twolazy said:
If you are going to go color and not CGA, then just use a VGA card and an LCD. What most of us do nowadays.
Click to expand...
booboo said:
Agree on the VGA suggestion... just make sure you get a VGA card that can operate in 8-bit mode, as most cannot. And all VGA cards that I can think of are 16-bit ISA cards. So look for one that has jumpers/DIP settings for 8-bit only. Examples include the original Compaq VGA card.
Click to expand...
See [here] for a list of VGA cards known to work with the IBM 5150. That web page also contains relevant information.
 
Original CGA cards are pricey, covered in tantalum capacitors which like to short and catch fire, and in addition all of the really early CGA cards have "snow" when graphics are updated too fast on screen.

It might not be a bad idea to get something like an ATi EGA Wonder or something based on the Chips&Tech 82Cxxx EGA chipset - They will drive both your 5151 and your 5153 no problem (albeit only in monochrome and 4-bit color) but they also support backwards compatibility with the other modes. The best of both worlds with some early EGA features, on top of being a bit easier to find and cheaper. That and they don't take a full length slot, I believe some of them can even run in the XT's slot 8 if you so desire. They're also a little bit less demanding of the little 60W power supply originally shipped in these things.

However, for a 5150 with just 5 slots, it may be worth it to go for one of those C&T cards instead as some have a parallel or serial port on card with them, which can save you a slot in some cases.
 
One thing I didn't realise until I used an original CGA card myself is that the snow only happens in the 80-column text video modes. Ordinary graphical modes like mode 4 (and 5) (320x200, four colours) and mode 6 (640x200, two colours), plus the 40-column text modes, don't have snow. Here's a blog post with more details.
 
galarneau said:
If I had the option to also get something that would be compatible with both the 5151, 5153, and a VGA monitor, that would be great.
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If you can find one, Everex Viewpoint EV-678: https://arvutimuuseum.ee/th99/v/E-H/50312.htm

Got one of these which I use to test monitors and systems covering the 8bit and 16bit era.

EDIT: Don't know about 8bit VGA compatibility... I'll test it on occasion on an XT clone
 
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galarneau said:
Well, let's just assume for the moment that I want to use a color monitor. Any recommendations other than an original IBM CGA card?
Click to expand...
Yes, EGA. EGA cards are 100% compatible with the 5153 you just use the DIP switches to disable the 350 line mode
 
I found myself in the situation of having assorted vintage graphic adapters with no known good matching monitors.

I found one of these to be quite handy to hook up my old IBM gear to a modern VGA monitor that I already had and knew to be working.

github.com

GitHub - lfantoniosi/mce2vga: MDA/CGA/EGA to VGA FPGA Converter V2.00

MDA/CGA/EGA to VGA FPGA Converter V2.00. Contribute to lfantoniosi/mce2vga development by creating an account on GitHub.
github.com github.com

You can roll you own or get one already assembled and tested.

www.serdashop.com

MCE2VGA

CGA/EGA/Hercules/MDA to VGA converter with scanline emulator
www.serdashop.com

texelec.com

MCE2VGA V2 - MDA (Monochrome) Hercules CGA or EGA to VGA Converter by Felipe Antoniosi - TexElec

*** We have discontinued the MCE2VGA at this time due to parts costs and we have a better solution now. The RGBtoHDMI is functionally equivalent, but it outputs HDMI instead of VGA. Not only does it offer the same inputs but it has a much cleaner output than the MCE2VGA. If you need a VGA […]
texelec.com texelec.com
 
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I have a pair of these Zenith cards which are just normal EGA boards based on the C&T 82Cxxx chipset but have a DAC and a VGA port on the end. They have some pseudo-VGA modes (640x480 at 16 colors) but they're in the wrong address regions. I seem to remember them being 8 bit full length ISA cards, since I had one in my Turbo XT for a while. Could be misremembering that, though.

I believe they were the Zenith Z449(?) and I know they were also sold under the Heath brand for a while. Might be a decent thing to check into.
 
CGA democoder here. For maximum compatibility with period-appropriate software (ie. games that targeted the IBM PC/XT class of systems), you should get a CGA card, either an original or a clone. I prefer an original card, as it has composite color output for the games that support it (16 colors instead of 4). Clone cards are also fine, as they will not suffer from "CGA snow", however they usually lack composite color output.

For "enhanced" cards, like an IBM EGA or clone, or the ATI Small Wonder, or a Plantronics card, etc. etc. those are also fine, and may also open up more graphics modes... however, the catch is that more colors = more VRAM to sling around and a 4.77 MHz IBM PC will really chug if using those modes, so you'll find yourself dropping down to CGA anyway.

I think the rule for the first-time buyer should be "anything you can get your hands on", and if you find it lacking, you can always go back and spend $100+ for an original IBM CGA card.
 
powerlot said:
Don't know about 8bit VGA compatibility... I'll test it on occasion on an XT clone
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To follow up on this, an Everex EV-678 will produce a VGA image over an 8-bit ISA slot, tested with an XT clone with FE2010A chipset (don't have an IBM unfortunately).
 
I decided on an ATI VGA card and found one on eBay for perhaps a reasonable price. It's marked as a VGA Basic card, but has a part number and layout identical to a VGA Wonder 16 which gives me both a DSUB9, DSUB15, and a mouse port, which is excellent as per famicomaster's suggestion above. I suspect I might need to find new ROMS for it if I truly want it to work as a VGA wonder. We shall see.

At this point, I've swapped out a bunch of bad RAM modules on the motherboard and am waiting on parts to make an external cable for a Gotek floppy emulator.
I appreciate all the advice. I was getting a bit bored with my old Apple gear and this is an interesting change.
 
Attached are photo's of the card if anyone has any insight on this particular model:s-l1600-1.jpgs-l1600-2.jpg
 
Some of the OEM Zenith Data Systems VGA cards work in 8 and 16 bit mode. I'm actually running one in a Z-150 with no issues.
 
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