larsbrinkhoff
Member
Any people interested in the PDP-10 here?
- VCF South West - June 14 - 16, Davidson-Gundy Alumni Center at University of Texas at Dallas
- VCF West - Aug 2 - 3, Computer History Museum, Mountain View, CA
- VCF Midwest - Sept 7 - 8 2024, Schaumburg, IL
- VCF SoCal - Mid February 2025, Location TBD, Southern CA
- VCF East - April 2025, Infoage Museum, Wall NJ
-
Please review our updated Terms and Rules here
Pdp-10
- Thread starter larsbrinkhoff
- Start date
kgober
Veteran Member
It's an interesting machine, important historically, but not one I ever expect to own. I've only ever used TOPS-10 and TOPS-20 (never ITS or Tenex). Not sure what I would actually do on one nowadays except maybe play ADVENT or DND? Assuming any copies of DND actually survive, I have no idea... (DND later begat Telengard, a popular game on early 8-bit machines).
When I was young (and had never heard of three-phase power) I aspired to have my own VAX-11/780 but now I have too many other machines and a big VAX in my basement simply isn't practical. My limit now is a machine that will fit in one or two BA23 cabinets (though I would be willing to make an exception for a small pedestal-based system like a MicroVAX 3300).
When I was young (and had never heard of three-phase power) I aspired to have my own VAX-11/780 but now I have too many other machines and a big VAX in my basement simply isn't practical. My limit now is a machine that will fit in one or two BA23 cabinets (though I would be willing to make an exception for a small pedestal-based system like a MicroVAX 3300).
Of course I am. Not sure how many others would be. But I would guess more than I would think.
Chuck(G)
25k Member
The cctalk mailing list is a hotbed of various DEC discussions.
http://www.classiccmp.org/cctalk.html
http://www.classiccmp.org/cctalk.html
AK6DN
Veteran Member
Well, it used to be. In my experience the S/N ratio now is abysmal. I finally unsubscribed and spend time here instead where the discussions are technical and civil. YMMV of course.
Same. Got way too annoying there for me.
Absolutely.
I used to follow it closely but now it gets hung up squabbling about tiny, fairly oddball or irrelevant details and goes on for dozens of posts about nothing. It's noticeable that a lot of the previously active posters have dropped out, as have I.
How much are you selling it for?
I can't afford it, but I can dream, all 36 bits.
larsbrinkhoff
Member
I don't have any PDP-10 myself. The only reasonable option would be a DEC-2020 KS10 I guess.
I'm using emulators; maybe that's outside the scope of this forum?
Here's sample ITS session:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MwhsdO0avuU
AK6DN
Veteran Member
Not likely you are going to find any PDP-10 hardware available for sale these days (maybe an occasional DECsystem-2020 aka KS10). How about emulation: http://klh10.trailing-edge.com/ ??
That's how I know I can't afford it.
I suppose I could run that on a "phone". Imagine that: a KL10 in your pocket!
m_thompson
Veteran Member
I have lots of interest in PDP-10 systems.
I helped rescue 24,000 pounds of KL10 for the RCS/RI http://www.rcsri.org/collection/pdp-10-1090/
The RICM has two KS10 2020 systems, and a third on loan from Megan Gentry. One is a my house: http://www.ricomputermuseum.org/Home/equipment/dec-pdp-10-decsystem-2020-4224
It normally runs TOPS-10, but I have another RP06 pack with a bootable, but not complete installation of TOPS-20 4.1. Theoretically I could find another clean RP06 pack in the warehouse and install ITS.
I have a KMC/DUP board set for the system. It was originally delivered with this option, but the boards were not in the system when the RICM got it. These boards would allow the KS10 to connect to a VAX using DECnet.
I have a DEUNA Unibus Ethernet board that could be installed in the KS10. There is a little unsupported software for this board from DEC. Johnny Eriksson wrote some DEUNA IP code for TOPS. I think that ITS also supports the DEUNA.
There is even unsupported software for an RX01 for the KS10.
I have an RM03 on the KS10. The diags can see the drive, but it fails when it tries to format a pack. I haven't figured this issue out yet.
The CSL Console boards that contain the 8080 boot processor seem to have a high failure rate. We have two failed boards, but have not looked into the failure mode.
The RICM has two KA10 consoles. We might make a lamp driver and switch interface for a Raspberry Pi and use one for a demonstration. http://www.ricomputermuseum.org/Home/interesting_computer_items/dec-pdp-ka10
I helped rescue 24,000 pounds of KL10 for the RCS/RI http://www.rcsri.org/collection/pdp-10-1090/
The RICM has two KS10 2020 systems, and a third on loan from Megan Gentry. One is a my house: http://www.ricomputermuseum.org/Home/equipment/dec-pdp-10-decsystem-2020-4224
It normally runs TOPS-10, but I have another RP06 pack with a bootable, but not complete installation of TOPS-20 4.1. Theoretically I could find another clean RP06 pack in the warehouse and install ITS.
I have a KMC/DUP board set for the system. It was originally delivered with this option, but the boards were not in the system when the RICM got it. These boards would allow the KS10 to connect to a VAX using DECnet.
I have a DEUNA Unibus Ethernet board that could be installed in the KS10. There is a little unsupported software for this board from DEC. Johnny Eriksson wrote some DEUNA IP code for TOPS. I think that ITS also supports the DEUNA.
There is even unsupported software for an RX01 for the KS10.
I have an RM03 on the KS10. The diags can see the drive, but it fails when it tries to format a pack. I haven't figured this issue out yet.
The CSL Console boards that contain the 8080 boot processor seem to have a high failure rate. We have two failed boards, but have not looked into the failure mode.
The RICM has two KA10 consoles. We might make a lamp driver and switch interface for a Raspberry Pi and use one for a demonstration. http://www.ricomputermuseum.org/Home/interesting_computer_items/dec-pdp-ka10
I had once hoped to get word of when the Penn State KA-10 was going to be scrapped. I always hoped to grab that or at least
help find someone to get it. Was a fantastic machine. But alas no word and later I found it had been scrapped. Lots of their
other system went thru the schools selling system and I know people that got some cool stuff. A friend got 2 Adage systems
from there. Oh well, the KA-10 was pretty rare. I think there were less than 100 built?
help find someone to get it. Was a fantastic machine. But alas no word and later I found it had been scrapped. Lots of their
other system went thru the schools selling system and I know people that got some cool stuff. A friend got 2 Adage systems
from there. Oh well, the KA-10 was pretty rare. I think there were less than 100 built?
gslick
Veteran Member
My first real computer science introduction was on a DECSYSTEM-20, using Scheme, EMACS, and CLU.
Nothing like being in a room full of VT-100s late at night working on a problem set with the system under maximum load when all of the VT-100s beep at the same time and print the error message “%DECSYSTEM-20 NOT RUNNING”. Then waiting for system to come back up again and hope you haven't lost any work.
When I first had to use VMS a couple of years later it seemed quite foreign compared to using TOPS-20. Too bad those systems didn't live on going forward as VAX systems did and become cheap and plentiful enough have any real hope of acquiring one now.
Nothing like being in a room full of VT-100s late at night working on a problem set with the system under maximum load when all of the VT-100s beep at the same time and print the error message “%DECSYSTEM-20 NOT RUNNING”. Then waiting for system to come back up again and hope you haven't lost any work.
When I first had to use VMS a couple of years later it seemed quite foreign compared to using TOPS-20. Too bad those systems didn't live on going forward as VAX systems did and become cheap and plentiful enough have any real hope of acquiring one now.
Chuck(G)
25k Member
Are there any Fooly or Super Foonly processors left in existence?
larsbrinkhoff
Member
Unfortunately, it doesn't. I started some work to add it to ITS, because it's the only option for networking in SIMH. But I haven't gotten very far.
larsbrinkhoff
Member
There only every was one Super Foonly. I don't know about its whereabouts. It could be in storage somewhere, or scrapped.
There were some Foonlies at Stanford, and Symbolics used one as a file server. Tymshare had many. CHM has (part of) the Stanford CCRMA F4.
larsbrinkhoff
Member
I have now come to understand that the Super Foonly may only have been a paper design, never built?
The Foonly F1 was built from an updated Super Foonly design, funded by Triple-I. It was quickly pressed into service rendering graphics. I asked Gary Demos about it 18 years ago, and again the other day, but all he knows is that it was last at Paramount in 1985.
I, too, used a DECsystem-10 in college. Some of my school friends were really upset when the Jupiter project was cancelled. I was out of school by that time.
Unfortunately, the life of this architecture was limited by the size of the address space, and DEC's willingness to build 10's that would compete with VAXen. Even the KL10B only had 23 virtual address bits (18 bits in a section by 32 sections). That is only 8MW. It seems that the KC10 (Jupiter) would have allowed 30 bits of virtual addressing (4096 sections of 256KW). About 1GB.
Unfortunately, the life of this architecture was limited by the size of the address space, and DEC's willingness to build 10's that would compete with VAXen. Even the KL10B only had 23 virtual address bits (18 bits in a section by 32 sections). That is only 8MW. It seems that the KC10 (Jupiter) would have allowed 30 bits of virtual addressing (4096 sections of 256KW). About 1GB.
Last edited:
Edinburgh university had a DEC 10 around 1970. I remember running a Blackjack program on it to demonstrate an algorithm which over time could win against the bank. 
. My first big machine.
The first large computer I used in industry was a 10 time-shared from TSL (Time Sharing Limited) at 110 baud over the phone. Endless panics trying to quickly reconnect a session when the line went down. I still use the account name and password on some web sites - sad eh?
I also used the one at Smiths Industries in England running their in-house 'Lady Jane' interactive layout suite single user early/mid 70s doing some CMOS IC layout. Seems a while.
. My first big machine.The first large computer I used in industry was a 10 time-shared from TSL (Time Sharing Limited) at 110 baud over the phone. Endless panics trying to quickly reconnect a session when the line went down. I still use the account name and password on some web sites - sad eh?
I also used the one at Smiths Industries in England running their in-house 'Lady Jane' interactive layout suite single user early/mid 70s doing some CMOS IC layout. Seems a while.