Not at all.
I do find it ironic that things are coming full circle. We all got personal computers so we wouldn't all be using some large computer via terminal, but, now all our applications and data are all going to some large computer somewhere.
- VCF South West - June 14 - 16, Davidson-Gundy Alumni Center at University of Texas at Dallas
- VCF West - Aug 2 - 3, Computer History Museum, Mountain View, CA
- VCF Midwest - Sept 7 - 8 2024, Schaumburg, IL
- VCF SoCal - Mid February 2025, Location TBD, Southern CA
- VCF East - April 2025, Infoage Museum, Wall NJ
-
Please review our updated Terms and Rules here
So recordable media is going the way of the floppy
- Thread starter Unknown_K
- Start date
I do find it ironic that things are coming full circle. We all got personal computers so we wouldn't all be using some large computer via terminal, but, now all our applications and data are all going to some large computer somewhere.
Chuck(G)
25k Member
I don't seem to have the failure rate on CD-R that other people do. My practice has been to purchase duplicator-grade CD-Rs from the big sellers, like American Digital. Most of my stuff is on MAM-A Gold (used to be Mitsui)--not the cheapest, but the durability seems to have proved out. Most of my discards have been stupid errors on my part--not bad media. Even though I have a good stock of blanks, I don't do much DVD-R.
I seem to remember that over the last year or two, someone announced a (relatively expensive) version of DVD that used a different technology and was initially projected to last something like 1000 years. I thought that was overblown, but interesting.
I seem to remember that over the last year or two, someone announced a (relatively expensive) version of DVD that used a different technology and was initially projected to last something like 1000 years. I thought that was overblown, but interesting.
Stone
10k Member
Honestly, I don't trust the Web to retain much information. I ran a check of about 5 years worth of bookmarks on my browser--roughly 350 of them. 135 of them turned out to be dead links.
Do we really think that "THE CLOUD" will be much better.
Not mine.
I haven't bought into 'The Cloud' mania. I much prefer having full control over and responsibility for my data. E.g., what 'Cloud' Ghost is going to replace something that somehow goes missing or get destroyed? I'd rather have direct access to this stuff without the need to rely on some middleman. IMO there's too good a chance that relying on the 'Cloud' will come back to 'byte' you someday. Excuse the pun.
Stone
10k Member
Why not use QR code?
[/URL]
I haven't bought into 'The Cloud' mania. I much prefer having full control over and responsibility for my data.
All of us here and no one else. Everyone else seems to believe their data is safest in "the cloud".
krebizfan
Veteran Member
I haven't bought into 'The Cloud' mania. I much prefer having full control over and responsibility for my data. E.g., what 'Cloud' Ghost is going to replace something that somehow goes missing or get destroyed? I'd rather have direct access to this stuff without the need to rely on some middleman. IMO there's too good a chance that relying on the 'Cloud' will come back to 'byte' you someday. Excuse the pun.
The idea is to have both: a local backup probably on external hard drives (about the only affordable way to backup terabytes) with a cloud backup of critical files (mostly email) so that if your house is destroyed those files could be recovered. Prices on cloud services make it impractical for anything larger than a few gigabytes and upload times keeps the data sets small as well.
Optical storage tended to be too small and too expensive to backup everything. Hard drives cost less than 10 cents per gigabyte, flash is about 50 cents per gigabyte now, but Blu-Ray was sold at 67 cents per gigabyte for a single use disc. Prices have dropped on Blu-Ray but it still is a poor value compared to other storage.
Admittedly, I have gone backup crazy at times. Buy a new computer with bigger hard drive, copy all the files from the old computer to a tiny subdirectory on the new, keep the old computer in storage just in case, and make a third backup (floppy, SyQuest, optical, flash, whatever else that could do a modest backup quickly) in the event two different computers fail at the same time. Now, I will add an encrypted fourth copy into a trusted cloud provider. My memory will fail; my files will not.
Trixter
Veteran Member
The printing tends to fade, although not as much if stored correctly or "overburned" (see http://dlpmkg.deviantart.com/art/LightScribe-darkness-test-disc-193352189 for an example diagnostic).
Good storage conditions help. My very first burned CDROM from 1996 is still perfectly readable. Over thousands of burned discs, I can count the number of bad burns (where it passed verification but was unreadable 2+ years later) on one hand.
Stone
10k Member
But multiple local backups in different physical locations covers all the bases and still leaves a cloud location unnecessary.
kb2syd
Veteran Member
Has anyone priced non trivial amounts of backup to the cloud. It is expensive to do anything other than the bare minimum. We have about 3 terabytes to back up including exchange servers, sql servers and regular data store. The tally for cloud backup was into the thousands of dollars per month.
On top of the fact that the best we can do here is 20mbps symmetrical fiber for about $2100 per month, backing up to the cloud is just not feasible for us at the moment.
On top of the fact that the best we can do here is 20mbps symmetrical fiber for about $2100 per month, backing up to the cloud is just not feasible for us at the moment.
krebizfan
Veteran Member
The single best thing to store in the cloud is the encryption keys to locally controlled storage. Easy to lose and makes all the drives useless so having a copy is important. Conversely, even if someone hacked into the cloud storage and stole the keys there is nothing that can be done with it unless the hacker also breaks into house or bank vault and steals the drives as well.
Cloud backup storage has some advantages:
Convenience: The few files created during the day are automatically stored overnight. With physical media, one needs to plug in appropriate drive, backup, unplug and then store in a fitting secure location. Based on the number of panicky forum messages, many find proper backup procedures to be excessively difficult.
Reliability: The cloud storage having fewer files to deal with will do a better job verifying what is backed. Few things are quite as useless as a backup that won't restore.
File transfer: Most customer cloud backup storage really isn't used for backup but instead is a lazy way of sending all the baby photos to all the relatives at the same time.
Use cloud storage in those circumstances it makes sense. Don't use it when other solutions work better but don't reflexively avoid its use either.
Cloud backup storage has some advantages:
Convenience: The few files created during the day are automatically stored overnight. With physical media, one needs to plug in appropriate drive, backup, unplug and then store in a fitting secure location. Based on the number of panicky forum messages, many find proper backup procedures to be excessively difficult.
Reliability: The cloud storage having fewer files to deal with will do a better job verifying what is backed. Few things are quite as useless as a backup that won't restore.
File transfer: Most customer cloud backup storage really isn't used for backup but instead is a lazy way of sending all the baby photos to all the relatives at the same time.
Use cloud storage in those circumstances it makes sense. Don't use it when other solutions work better but don't reflexively avoid its use either.
Stone
10k Member
The physical locations need to be many miles apart, e.g., home and office. This tidbit was something I picked up from Fred Langa almost twenty years ago. It made good sense then and it still does. And, if a fire or other disaster simultaneously eats your backups that are many miles apart the apocalypse has arrived and you and I won't be needing or using computers anyway!
Last edited:
kb2syd
Veteran Member
Not for us. We have a well established, tested system that involves daily media rotation and offsite storage.
Periodic fire drills are run to make sure we can restore when we need too.
griffk
Experienced Member
One of the main problems with "cloud" storage has not been brought up yet - government snooping into your private data...
If anyone with access to a FISA court or blanket FBI warrant decides that "your business should be their business", your data is TOAST - and the gov's access to it is so secret, that they enjoin anyone from even telling you that they grabbed your files!
Not that you have anything to hide, but do you really want to play along with this assault on your right to privacy???
gwk
If anyone with access to a FISA court or blanket FBI warrant decides that "your business should be their business", your data is TOAST - and the gov's access to it is so secret, that they enjoin anyone from even telling you that they grabbed your files!
Not that you have anything to hide, but do you really want to play along with this assault on your right to privacy???
gwk
Tor
Veteran Member
Won't happen if you use the (admittedly few) cloud services where all the encryption is done locally before anything gets uploaded. The encryption keys never leave your computer. So the [whoever] will need to come and knock on *your* door to beat the keys out of you, which they will probably find even easier than targeting the cloud company.. so I don't know if you can win
Grandcheapskate
Veteran Member
One thing I do not see mentioned here is how the loss of recordable CD media will really hurt our older 386 and 486 era machines using DOS or even Win95. These machines do not have flash drive capability (well, maybe some 486 machines running Win98 do) so the only way to get large chunks of data (in DOS terms) to a non-networked PC was by using a CD.
I am also of the opinion that what goes around comes around. The "cloud" is nothing more than non-local storage...just like the dumb terminal mainframe days. Except now the cloud demands a LOT more faith. I am of little faith.
Joe
I am also of the opinion that what goes around comes around. The "cloud" is nothing more than non-local storage...just like the dumb terminal mainframe days. Except now the cloud demands a LOT more faith. I am of little faith.
Joe
krebizfan
Veteran Member
Never used floppies can still be bought despite production stopping a decade ago. Recordable CDs and DVDs will be available for a long time. Later 386/486 models should have an IDE controller that can easily be adapted to Compact Flash. Many SD card adapters also exist.
griffk
Experienced Member
Well, the PC "revolution" was brought on by the need to cheaply control a local program & data source - Secure, and to get away from "time-share" users on big-metal servers.
Then, we moved back to "local-but-not local" data storage, on in-house servers, ala NT & Linux.
Then, we moved back to "time-share" programs & data, on in-house "Citrix" or somesuch servers.
Then, the Internet happened.
Then, the Old Mainframe Guys started touting "time-share" programs & data NON-locally, via "Citrix" or somesuch servers - In a country of THEIR choosing!
Then, to mop-up the non-"Citrix" users, the Old Mainframe Guys talked all of the newbies (those born after 1980's), into the "cloud", SAFER!!! - which you have to pay every day for and have no control over...
Kind of like medicine advancing, and all us non-paying "healthy people" being scammed into taking and paying for pharmaceuticals EVERY DAY, for illnesses we don't have, but MIGHT get - The income-losers just find a way to make a living again!
What part of "circle" and "ripoff" does everybody not understand?
gwk
Last edited: