Warning to Posters on this Forum: TRIANGLE SCAM

[Lutiana]

The mods have observed some behaviour on the forums that suggest some of our users are being targeted by scammers who are trying to leverage a triangle scam against them, so we figured we'd make this announcement to bring some awareness to these actvities and this particular type of scam.

Also, please remember that VCFed and the forum are not responsible for any trades or sales that happen here. So please be careful when considering buying something from someone on here. We won't act as mediators for deals gone wrong, but please do report any scams or scammers to us via the reporting tools.

This type of scam is often referred to as a "triangle scam" or "triangle fraud." In this scam, a third party (the scammer) inserts themselves between two legitimate parties who are looking to buy and sell an item. The scammer pretends to facilitate the transaction, often by using fake pictures and creating a sense of urgency or legitimacy, but ultimately aims to steal money from the buyer without delivering the promised item.
Here's how it typically works:

1. Buyer posts a "want to buy" (WTB) request on a forum or marketplace.
2. Scammer contacts the buyer, claiming to know someone (often referred to as a "friend") who has the item.
3. Buyer reaches out to the supposed seller, who is actually the scammer or an accomplice.
4. Scammer provides fake photos and details to make the item seem legitimate, sometimes taken from real listings on platforms like eBay.
5. Buyer sends payment for the item.
6. Scammer disappears, leaving the buyer without the item or their money.

It's essential to be cautious and verify the legitimacy of sellers, especially when dealing with transactions initiated through indirect contacts.

Thanks @VeryVon for this great explanation of what a triangle scam is.

THREAD UPDATES :

1. Also see konc's better description of triangle scam below
2. Also see kobura's strategy for debunking fake sellers

We very much appreciate the community weighing in on this, so TY all for your commentary and help.

 

[Quagmire]

Good reason to insist at least on PayPal.

 

[alank2]

Good reason to deal only with long time members with post history.

 

[pkhoury]

The mods have observed some behaviour on the forums that suggest some of our users are being targeted by scammers who are trying to leverage a triangle scam against them, so we figured we'd make this announcement to bring some awareness to these actvities and this particular type of scam.

Also, please remember that VCFed and the forum are not responsible for any trades or sales that happen here. So please be careful when considering buying something from someone on here. We won't act as mediators for deals gone wrong, but please do report any scams or scammers to us via the reporting tools.

This type of scam is often referred to as a "triangle scam" or "triangle fraud." In this scam, a third party (the scammer) inserts themselves between two legitimate parties who are looking to buy and sell an item. The scammer pretends to facilitate the transaction, often by using fake pictures and creating a sense of urgency or legitimacy, but ultimately aims to steal money from the buyer without delivering the promised item.
Here's how it typically works:

1. Buyer posts a "want to buy" (WTB) request on a forum or marketplace.
2. Scammer contacts the buyer, claiming to know someone (often referred to as a "friend") who has the item.
3. Buyer reaches out to the supposed seller, who is actually the scammer or an accomplice.
4. Scammer provides fake photos and details to make the item seem legitimate, sometimes taken from real listings on platforms like eBay.
5. Buyer sends payment for the item.
6. Scammer disappears, leaving the buyer without the item or their money.

I've seen this on several other forums, namely TDIclub and cpu-world. Thankfully, it hasn't happened to me here, but I haven't posted in the buy/sell forum. Of course, one of the dead giveaways is also the account history (joined within the past week or less usually). Sometimes I troll them asking for photos (knowing they can't provide - they send one message and move on).

Should we click the report button, or message one of the moderators directly?

 

[konc]

Thanks for the heads-up, just wanted to say that the described scenario is not exactly what the "triangulation fraud" is.
The described scenario is the classic "you pay a scammer - he disappears and sends nothing", there is no second legitimate party in it, just the buyer and the scammer/accomplice

In a triangulation fraud case the buyer
-pays the scammer/middleman
-the scammer buys the product from a legitimate seller using a stolen card and puts the buyer's address
-the scammer keeps the buyer's legit payment
-the buyer receives the product
-if nothing goes wrong, nobody understands anything and the scammer can keep doing this as none is after him
-if the stolen card owner notices and manages to reverse the transaction, the legitimate seller loses his money and product, the buyer might get in trouble for buying with a stolen card, but the scammer is invisible in all this.

 

[kobura]

This has been tried with my twice here, and also on other sites.

The validation path I use is:

• Ask specific details that you know aren't true about the item and the scammer gives an answer
• Reverse image search and check worthpoint.com history (doesn't always come up in image search, but it's a scammers favorite image repository)
• Lastly I ask for a video or photo of them next to a new photo.

They usually bolt after all that.

 

[pkhoury]

This has been tried with my twice here, and also on other sites.

The validation path I use is:

• Ask specific details that you know aren't true about the item and the scammer gives an answer

They usually bolt after all that.

I always ask specific details and some of the responses I've seen are pretty funny. At that point, you know it's BS/a scam.

 

[Hugo Holden]

One idea I heard was when a Physicist went to a car dealer and explained to him that the electrons around the Nuclei of the atoms that made up the car were a probability function, and that some of them may well not even be there and could very well be orbiting around the sun or elsewhere and be on their way home, So they suggested there should be a discount for the amount of the car that was not there some of the time. But the car dealer didn't fall for it and explained that part of the money they were being paid with was not there some of the time either and that balanced out the deal.

 

[crazybrit]

I used to be a mod on a large forum where this was very common. We'd ban multiple new scammer accounts each day.

I've now been contacted twice by such scammers on this site. I've reported in both cases. I can't tell how aggressive the mods are at kicking them. Clear warnings on this in the marketplace forums would be a good addition.

They'll reach the required 5 posts to send a PM via posting "low content" replies to existing threads, sometimes they'll try to create a few posts that make it look like they have interest in vintage computing but again the content is very low.

Good advice above on using reverse image search. The images they provided on the most recent PM were trivially tracked to a website they'd scraped them from. I actually know the site owner.

As said above, insist they make a piece of paper with current date, site name and their username visible in any images they provide.

 

[maxtherabbit]

I outright refuse to deal with anyone (as buyer or seller) who is "posting for a friend"

It's 2025 there's no excuse for your friend to not have internet access. Even if it is legitimate, it just adds a whole layer of hassle that I don't want to deal with.

 

[ajacocks]

We are very aggressive at banning scammers. Thanks for any reports, and we appreciate any help in keeping the forum clean.

Personally, I feel similarly to @maxtherabbit. While I understand folks may not want to deal with the always-online digital culture that we now have, but choosing not to participate, you are choosing to disconnect yourself from those who do. It is an absolutely valid personal choice, but like all choices, there are consequences, which include having a harder time buying and selling on the used market.

- Alex

 

[acgs]

by choosing not to participate, you are choosing to disconnect yourself from those who do. It is an absolutely valid personal choice, but like all choices, there are consequences, which include having a harder time buying and selling on the used market.

Also, if someone is truly "helping a friend out" who doesn't participate on-line, that person should handle the entire transaction alone. They take possession of the item, take all the photos, make sure all the questions get answered, sell it on their own, and hand the money over to the friend once everything is finished.

The purchaser doesn't even have to hear the sob story of why the item is being "sold to make some quick cash" or "because they are moving into a smaller apartment" or whatever.

If you are helping a FRIEND and doing them a FAVOR, then help them AS a FRIEND and do the WHOLE FAVOR.

 

[jlang]

Also, if someone is truly "helping a friend out" who doesn't participate on-line, that person should handle the entire transaction alone. They take possession of the item, take all the photos, make sure all the questions get answered, sell it on their own, and hand the money over to the friend once everything is finished.

The purchaser doesn't even have to hear the sob story of why the item is being "sold to make some quick cash" or "because they are moving into a smaller apartment" or whatever.

If you are helping a FRIEND and doing them a FAVOR, then help them AS a FRIEND and do the WHOLE FAVOR.

I must agree. I gave up access to eBay about two decades ago. They closed my account and it was impossible to regain access.
So my wife bids on and purchases stuff for me. (she has pay-pal) It's a purchase by a third party but it's handled entirely by her.
The seller doesn't ever see my name. Nor does he need too.

My wife is something special.

 

[tech58761]

I put up an ad on behalf of a coworker. Should I just have the mods remove it then?

 

[Lutiana]

I put up an ad on behalf of a coworker. Should I just have the mods remove it then?

No one is suggesting that, but you do need to be aware that selling on behalf of someone else matches this type of scam and therefore the number of potential buyers will drop significantly.

 

[acgs]

I put up an ad on behalf of a coworker. Should I just have the mods remove it then?

While I think that you should handle the whole transaction for them, part of what I was saying is that there are legitimate sales conducted this way. As @Lutiana said, I'm not saying you should never put up an ad for someone else. But, to avoid even the appearance of a scam, taking over the entire transaction is best, in my view.

Putting aside the possibility of a scam for the moment, look at the potential buyer's side of the transaction. First the offer sounds tempting and an inquiry is made. Then the friend has to be contacted, delays without any feedback occur, finally the question gets answered. The answer is only partially satisfying and another Q&A back and forth with delays takes place. The person making the offer can't help and is basically in the same boat as the potential buyer. Then the offer is accepted but there is a new wrinkle in the process or the offer is withdrawn with more delays until finally the terse answer "it was sold elsewhere."

The potential buyer, without any scam going on, feels like he's getting the runaround and at the mercy of the nameless, incognito friend's whims. Not a great experience to inspire many to try this route again. It also reflects badly on the person acting for the friend, to some degree.

Add to this the pattern being known to be used by scammers and potential buyers get that "little voice inside" saying CAVEAT EMPTOR!

 

[tech58761]

The plan was always that I would handle collection of payment as well as the actual shipping, but fine. No good deed...

 

[Lutiana]

The plan was always that I would handle collection of payment as well as the actual shipping, but fine. No good deed...

My dude, are you a scammer? Because that is literally the only reason someone would take this conversation personally and add in the passive aggressive things like what you did here. Great to hear you are doing this for your co-worker, and that you plan to do the whole thing, that will go a long way to secure buyer confidence for sure. And again, to be clear, no one is saying that this is automatically a scam or what not, just that scammers have appropriated this type of sale for their benefit, and this makes the hobby and the market worse for everyone.

 

[Unknown_K]

At least paypal has money back protection unless you send money via freinds and family. Most scammers want other forms of payment with no protections and seem too lazy to ship you a brick instead of a computer.

The scammers I am worried about are the ones who do send the model you purchased but in bad condition missing or broken parts. It would be hard to fight that for a refund unless you had very detailed pictures.

 

[acgs]

The plan was always that I would handle collection of payment as well as the actual shipping, but fine. No good deed...

Please don't misunderstand me, you're not the type I'm talking about. I've seen your post and you are being up and above board.

In fact, the whole triangle scam isn't really similar to what you're doing either. Just look at the steps that make the difference from the first post in this thread:

The scammer pretends to facilitate the transaction, often by using fake pictures and creating a sense of urgency or legitimacy, but ultimately aims to steal money from the buyer without delivering the promised item.

Here's how it typically works:

1. Buyer posts a "want to buy" (WTB) request on a forum or marketplace.
2. Scammer contacts the buyer, claiming to know someone (often referred to as a "friend") who has the item.
3. Buyer reaches out to the supposed seller, who is actually the scammer or an accomplice.
4. Scammer provides fake photos and details to make the item seem legitimate, sometimes taken from real listings on platforms like eBay.
5. Buyer sends payment for the item.
6. Scammer disappears, leaving the buyer without the item or their money.

1.) Since you posted the original offer, you aren't responding to a "want to buy" request.
2.) You have not indicated any need for a quick sale.
3.) You are offering in-person purchasing.

If you hadn't mentioned your co-worker in the post, no one would have any reason to think this was like a triangle scam. Life gets in the way and can cause delays. If it takes a while to post pictures, that's the way it is sometimes.

Assuming this was your first for-sale posting, I suggest that you could have presented the offer a little differently to avoid any thoughts of a scam. More people might have responded if you had waited until you had pictures for the first post, for instance.

That said, a long time forum member has already made favorable comments about your offer, you're a member who's made himself known on the forum, and you are doing things publicly. You could still always update your for sale thread with the recommended info and pictures mentioned in this thread to put anyone's reservations to rest.