• Please review our updated Terms and Rules here

Various rehabilitative topics - Cabinets, Paints, Drives, Slides

RSX11M+

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
1,075
I'm finally getting to rehabilitate some racks and cabinets I have here (purchased at a local auction in the 90's) So I could use some experience and advice from those of you who have refurbed or repaired their hardware.

Here's a bit of forgotten detail - Color and touch-up paint.

We used to manufacture the sheet metal for our products, because each installation was custom designed. It was decided, that since our system was DEC based, and that it was a major selling point - that we should use the same paints. This gave the entire system the look as if it were of one manufacture, and the illusion worked quite well.

So, I used to have a ready supply of paint to deal with the inevitable scratch, scuff or occasional custom sheet metal which had to be painted to match. (I once had our sheet metal wizzards make an end panel for a corporate cabinet when we separated our TE16 from the 11/70)

Does anyone out there know of a modern day equivalent paint that matches DEC color?

I think the original was a heavy "lacquer" bit I'm not certain. It's funny, but I don't recall the smell... which I'm usually pretty good at, so it could have been an enamel.

I have need for two colors... The grayish paint on the removable side panels of the DEC standard 6 ft rack (vintage 11/34) and the textured off-white of the low 48 inch cabinet of the 11/730 and 11/44 style. (is that a "Low Boy?)

So much for paint.

Cabinet Damage -

I don't know why it is, but I see damage to those removable rack sides a lot. I have two of the 6 ft cabinets. One's sides are in very good shape with hardly a kink or dent. The other, looks like it's been in a train wreck. I haven't even managed remove the sides yet - they won't budge. From what I can see it may be because the substructure is bent and sprung. The rack frame itself appears fine as is the rear door. It's the panels themselves which are clearly distorted on the inner side, but not so apparent on the outside.

Any experiences to share on how to straighten them?

Slides -

I seem to have more slide mounts here than drives or boxes. They all need TLC of one kind or another - and I'll need mounts for at least 1 RL and up to 4 RK05 drives. They should probably all be derusted and refinished with a preservative even if only to end up being stored. One is that elaborate tilting rig, probably for an 11/34 box.

Do you use a chemical rust remover or the elbow grease method? What kind of finish - Paint? Grease? Dry Slide?

TS05 -

The TS05 drive needs disassembly and cleaning. It's interior will require a meticulous going over as some mechanical parts have slight signs of metal corrosion. The main electronics board will have to be removed, washed and dried in a vacuum oven before I can even check it. (looks like squirrels)

One of the first things to do is make backups of the main board's ROM contents. As long as they are still good, that should present no problems. I've got both UNIBUS and QBUS options - NIB so that end should be covered. The technical manual looks very complete. It looks like this task is going to be mostly mechanical in the beginning. There are instructions for checkout without the BUS controllers, which is very helpful.

Has anyone else had any experience with this unit or cautionary tales to share?

R80 -

It came with the 11/730. Is this an RA80 or something else? It looks the same at first glance. I haven't had the CPU box open yet. If it's connected via a UDA50 I guess I'll have my answer - unless someone can save me the research? (so much to do...)

1/2 inch tape storage -

This is getting ridiculous. I really need to come up with a storage unit for all these. I must have 50 reels or more - small and large diameter. (gotta be over 100 lbs worth of tapes) I recall hanging them in a special media cabinet back in the day, but not now of course. Any ideas what to use for a substitute?

What about re-attaching the labels? (contact cement? or will the fumes be bad for the tape)

Might as well think about the TK50s too... I'd like to get back the shelf space in my bookcases they occupy now. (Manuals keep piling up - finally got an RT11 set)

RL Packs -

I'll mention these too. If everything were unboxed, they'd occupy considerably less room. Of course, I wouldn't destroy the original cartons, so they'd still need a home too - but not in the house (I guess)

Originally, I was thinking one of those wire "Bicycle Rack" kinda things we used to put them in. While that's still a nice idea for current projects, I don't have enough room to store them all that way. I haven't counted lately, but figure 40 packs? (leaves me a little room to spare) Come to think of it, there are some RK05 packs too - make that 40 definite.


Geeze that's a lot of stuff scattered about. I feel really disorganized. :wallbang:
 
Does anyone out there know of a modern day equivalent paint that matches DEC color?
Go to the home depot with a small panel painted in the color you need, and get them to color match you a sample can of paint for $5.

The main electronics board will have to be removed, washed and dried in a vacuum oven before I can even check it.
Seems a bit excessive. When I need to wash boards I mark and remove socketed components, use a toothbrush and scrub it in hot running water from the sink, blast the excess water off with an air compressor and then put the boards someplace warm for an afternoon.
The TS05 by the way looks strikingly familiar to a rebranded Cipher tape drive.

It came with the 11/730. Is this an RA80 or something else?
First thing that comes to google is the HDA from an RA8x drive. I have an RA82. It's really flaky but then again RA drives normally saw a LOT of hours.
100_2880.jpg

You better hope your HDA has the heads locked and nobody placed the drive down on the spindle pulley.
The cabling also sucks as mine at least were one-piece moulded with the bulkheads and when I received them the cabling had been cut up and new cables are impossible to get. Supposedly you can replace it with CAT6 cable, connectors and modular outlets.

This is getting ridiculous. I really need to come up with a storage unit for all these. I must have 50 reels or more - small and large diameter. (gotta be over 100 lbs worth of tapes) I recall hanging them in a special media cabinet back in the day, but not now of course. Any ideas what to use for a substitute?
I bought GORM shelves form Ikea, a 1/4" steel bar and some L-brackets from The Home Depot. I bent the brackets up so the bar was securely fastened in and hung my tapes off that.
CGS_0214.jpg

What about re-attaching the labels? (contact cement? or will the fumes be bad for the tape)
Get a glue stick. ;)
Might as well think about the TK50s too... I'd like to get back the shelf space in my bookcases they occupy now. (Manuals keep piling up - finally got an RT11 set)
Give the drive a good cleaning. I'm hearing word that the tapes are starting to get very unreliable/drives need a cleaning after one or two uses.

I'll mention these too. If everything were unboxed, they'd occupy considerably less room. Of course, I wouldn't destroy the original cartons, so they'd still need a home too - but not in the house (I guess)
Collapse the boxes, use tape or bailing twine to tie them together and stuff them someplace. After I moved I was able to reduce all of my boxes into a tidy stack I keep in the attic.
Originally, I was thinking one of those wire "Bicycle Rack" kinda things we used to put them in. While that's still a nice idea for current projects, I don't have enough room to store them all that way. I haven't counted lately, but figure 40 packs? (leaves me a little room to spare) Come to think of it, there are some RK05 packs too - make that 40 definite.
I've only ever seen them the "bicycle rack" frames when stored. Do you need them all out at once?
 
Last edited:
Thanks for those shots and the advice.


  • Your tape storage looks fantastic. Will do likewise. IKEA GORM - thanks.
  • The cleaning I described for the TS05 board is necessary - trust me. I use the method prescribed by HP up to about 1982 (when last I heard) for cleaning all it's test equipment prior to major service. Air drying is a good second choice - preferably at the input side of a circulating fan.
  • The RL DISK pack boxes are original and have moulded foam inserts which won't collapse. I can seal them in a giant leaf bag and find a place for them out of the way in the garage.
  • I haven't enough surface to store RL packs out, even in a bicycle rack (if I had one). I'm going to have to make a storage rack similar to what you did. I'm thinking from 2x4 lumber. I am stupid for not grabbing the last wire rack I saw though. Got just the place for a 36" one. Oh well.
  • Glue stick - good idea.
  • It's the TK50 tapes I need to store. I have to rummage through shelves of them stacked 4 deep to locate the one I need. It's maddening. I can never seem to read the labels through the plastic cases as intended. A labeled shelving system is what I need. Another wood shop project.
  • Thanks for the tip on TK50 deterioration. I'll watch for it. I'd better come up with a way to store the contents on the first read in case they become unreadable from it.
  • Oh ya the R80. I know about the RA80 series issues, had em back when. This one is in an unmolested rack, so it's not been "set" anywhere. Can't say about the head parking. Still need to verify what it is.

Lots of great ideas there - thank you.
 
Well TK50 tapes are the ancestors of the DLT so I wouldn't doubt that the storage options for those would not work with TK50 tapes.
 
On the chassis-traks: I have always wondered exactly what the solid bearing slides are coated with. The coating also seems to also serve as a dry lubricant. I have historically removed any rust with a scotchbrite pad, trying not to destroy too much of the original coating that was left. Then I put a light coating of oil on there. I have a feeling that the original coating has moly disufide in it. I am too cheap to spend $30 on a spray can of that kind of paint, however the light coating of oil can be annoying (when a piece is racked out and you lean against it and get a dirty stripe across the front of your shirt.)

Lou
 
I too have always wondered about that gray metal coating. Moly Paint? I was unfamiliar with it until your suggestion - googled it. I have molybdenum disulfide, which would be fine for the unexposed surfaces but as you say - very messy to touch. I guess I wasn't expecting paint... kept going to some sort of electro plating process, but I couldn't see how that would work either.

My first inclination was to try chemical rust removal. Still not sure. At least I know others are experiencing this.

But Paint? You've given me an avenue to check into. Thanks.
 
  • Your tape storage looks fantastic. Will do likewise. IKEA GORM - thanks.

I would advice _against_ GORM. I have used it plenty:
machine_room.jpg

But I've thrown it all out in favour of sturdier stuff. If you choose GORM, make sure to fasten it to your wall. IVAR might be a better choice (but I haven't tried).
 
I would advice _against_ GORM. I have used it plenty:
-image-
But I've thrown it all out in favour of sturdier stuff. If you choose GORM, make sure to fasten it to your wall. IVAR might be a better choice (but I haven't tried).

I can't think of a time when I did not have it bolted to the wall but that shouldn't be an issue for most people if you aren't planning on moving it often. They also get cranky once you start putting computers and hardware in them but that's what happens when you buy $25 bookshelves and expect hercules.
 
10-32 Tinnerman clips

10-32 Tinnerman clips

Anyone know of a source of cheap 10-32 Tinnerman clips suitable for DEC racks? (actually... they're Tinnerman nuts)

Are these a good deal?

attachment.php


The original DEC part is a little less substantial [no photo] but similar in construction and identical in function.

~40 cents a set (screw, washer and nut) in quantity still seems a little high... is it just me?

I don't see these used in modern racks... guess the side rails are threaded 12-24 in those.


mumbling... :confused1:
 
Last edited:
No doubt, the guy is making a profit, but he has sold quite a few of these. If I needed some, I would probably pay what he's asking. The tinnerman nuts are nicely plated and the black screw looks nice also with the plastic washer that prevents the panel of the gear from getting scratched. These probably won't be cheaper elsewhere (Fastenal, McMaster-Carr, etc.)

Lou
 
Take a look at:
http://www.rackmountsolutions.net/Rackmount_Screws_Hardware.asp#CageNuts

You can buy the 10/32 clips by themselves but still a bit pricy. There are cheap versions that just have a drilled hole with a bent part to catch the thread but they suck. Also there are attachment blocks that are pre drilled with three holes for 10/32 that can be used to support things like slide rails where you install them in the location to support the rail and then tighten them down on the rail to support it. I have a lot of this stuff laying around so if you just need a dozen or so of the clips or attachment blocks PM me and I can send them to you.
 
Thank you both.

I did order the 100 qty Clip Nuts, Washers and Screw sets for $40. (shipping incl.) - Will post a report when they arrive.

I have used so much of this stuff over the years, I would never have bet this order would even be necessary. It's a little disconcerting that it still may not be, but there comes a point where it's simpler to move on - rather than continue to look.

Now that the order is placed, my stache (like that? I invented a geekism) is sure to show up!


Thanks Ray, I've been looking for a good source for rack supplies, and that one looks better than any I've found. (I.E. - vented pull-out rack shelf for $99 and they have 23" stuff too) I used to deal with Altex all the time, but not so much lately. In my last employment situation, we used Chatsworth products. As a telco OEM our company had great pricing with them which is no longer available to me.


Small update:

I'm still working along on this effort. It's a lot of logistics and little things at the moment - how to move heavy items up and down stairs without breaking them (my back?), cleaning grime off of major assemblies, interim storage while racks and slides are being prepped. In the back of my head, there's been a plan brewing to deal with power needs - Wiring and a sub-panel, and it looks like I need to find another rack power controller. (and I literally mean "find" as in: it's around here SOMEWHERE! - I had 4... right?)

Actual restorative electronics work won't really begin until winter, at the earliest.

I have to say though... it's all energizing somehow.
 
I've been a "lurker" on this forum for quite a while and have made use of many a good tip from the participants.

Now it's my turn to pay back a little. Your question about touch-up paint tickled my memory about a post I had seen, but as usual on the internet getting back to it was not easy. At any rate, here's the info.

quote:

I got this from somebody who got it from DEC circa 1999 or so; these may
or may not be available anymore from the listed paint vendor, I don't know.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
System Paint
Copyright (c) Digital Equipment Corporation 1998. All rights reserved.
U.S. Area Information Center
QRL, Quick Reference List
Supplies: PAINT, for PDP and VAXES
Updated: 16-APR-1998 Article Expiration Date: 27-MAY-2000
Part Description: DEC Part
Number:
________________________________________________________________________
Note:
Paints are ordered from Randolf Products
Harlestat, NJ
201-438-3700
Specify Product type, Randolf Products will provide color match.
End Note:
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Gray 49-01524-01
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Old Digital Blue/gray 49-01524-02
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Black 49-01524-03
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,End Panel Grey 49-01524-04
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Bright Copen Blue 49-01524-05
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Terra Cotta 49-01524-06
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Scale Grey 49-01524-07
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Blasi Blue 49-01524-08
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Topaz 49-01524-09
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Mullen Blue 49-01524-10
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Perferred Red 49-01524-11
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Digital Brown 49-01524-12
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Charcoal 49-01524-13
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Mid-Range Gray 49-01524-14
Paint (Lacquer), Touch-up, Aerosol,Mid,Dark Gray 49-01524-15

end quote.

And here's a link to the site I got it from.


https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/alt.sys.pdp11/URhpSsNU3_I/IqlyvKslOmAJ

I noted with interest that managers were expected to join in on refinishing sheet metal on units returned from lease and/or otherwise banged up in shipping. This reinforces my experiences in refinishing sheet metal on my various race cars. The crinkle or pebble texture was a feature of the paint as it came out of a rattle can. One could not expect a desk jockey to consistently manage some of the tricks mentioned in previous posts well enough to justify letting them refinish what was in those days extremely expensive hardware.
 
That is SO EXCELLENT! Pretty much everything I could hope for. Thank you.

Actual Part numbers - that enables a search. Would anyone finding vendors with stock please post? I think I'm going to need a color chart though... 6 different Grays!

Lacquer - yeah, sounds right. Texturing is not usually something I think of associated with "touch up", but as you point out - it can be done. Automotive paint experience could be quite relevant. What kind of rust remover do you use? ...maybe one that can be applied through paint and not necessitate paint removal?

So... you joined the forums... Yesterday? I think that is so great.


"Welcome to the party PAL!"
 
That is SO EXCELLENT! Pretty much everything I could hope for. Thank you.

I’m catching up on this thread and yes, thank you, this is excellent indeed! I have a pair of H9642 cabinets (11/44 style painted in something-ivory and “charcoal brown”) that have been in need of touch-up for a long time. I was always under the impression that the texture of the finish was created by setting the gun pressure low enough so that some spatter was introduced, but that was purely speculation on my part. In any event, I would definitely be interested in working with any of you guys to figure out colors, application techniques or ordering options from Randolf (if they still offer that sort of thing but require a minimum quantity). Do those part numbers look familiar to anyone?
 
More years ago than I care to think about, my employer was decommissioning some telemetry consoles that were based on a PDP11/23 with the usual dual RX02. I was able to snag one and kept it in my office area with my "real" computer, a Heathkit H89. ;-)

Some years later I decided to ditch the ugly non-DEC cabinet due to space limitations.

Now I'm looking to put the PDP, the RX02, and the power controller in an actual rack. I looked for info on how to build one and got leads on rails and hardware for sale at Guitar Centers. It would seem that audiophiles and touring bands need to put their high end gear in custom built racks, and Guitar Center has a lot of stuff to build one. Whoda thunkit!

So for your rack hardware needs, you might want to check out Guitar Center's website.
 
Color identification will be an issue. Do I recall original invoices having paint numbers for touchup? Reclaiming that info now is another matter.

DDS - thanks for filling in the PDP connection blanks. I was wondering. Heathkit, wow - memory lane. If I could do it all over again... I'd do more Heathkits. Always wanted that digital FM PLL tuner. Ever been to a Heathkit store? I was... Paramus N.J. I think. ...and I'd have gone into HAM Radio and built all the Heaths for it. (remember the dummy load in a paint can?)

Guitar Center? Huh.

Thanks again all.
 
Anyone know of a source of cheap 10-32 Tinnerman clips suitable for DEC racks? (actually... they're Tinnerman nuts)

Are these a good deal?...

I did order the 100 qty Clip Nuts, Washers and Screw sets for $40. (shipping incl.) - Will post a report when they arrive.
These Parts have been received and inspected.

Professionally prepared and shipped as 3 bags of parts: Screws, Washers and Clip-Nuts.

  • Washers are clear plastic, with triangular center opening, designed to stay on the 10-32 screw and not fall off.
  • Screws sized correctly, 10-32 x 3/4 inch, Phillips - dark in color. Not as broad a head as the original DEC part, but as expected.
  • Clip-Nuts - Functional equivalent of the DEC part and nearly identical to my original Tinnerman Nuts. A difference worth noting is both original parts have hex nuts solidly crimped to the clip by expansion. These new ones have a square nut, floating in the clip but retained by crimped corners. I believe the new variation is even stronger, and more likely to retain the nut without spinning if the threads bind and have to be forced. (a problem I have experienced, though infrequently, with the old types) The floating nut is more tolerant of slight misalignment of the screw which sometimes occurs when securing heavy items.

I will be keeping these new units, and can recommend them as substitutes for the original parts in similar applications.
 
Which slides are original...

Which slides are original...

Regarding BA11 box configurations and slides...

So I have the opportunity to put my 11/34 components back into an original 34 box. Right now, they're in an 04 box, which has slides and power chord that are different from the 34's.

I guess my real question is the slides... This is the 34 as it is:
1134in04box.png


Are those slides 04 type? (the box tag says it's an 04)

I don't have a convent pic of the 34 slides, but they look like these:
1110inorgbox.png


The 34 power chord is coiled, where the 04 chord is straight.

The supply modules need to be checked too. I always assumed the 34 modules had been transplanted along with the boards, but never looked.

Maybe there's some underlying reason things ended up this way. I'll pull the other box out of storage.

In the meantime, can someone verify those slides are indeed 04 type, or were 34s shipped with them later on in the production cycle?


If I'm going to work on this stuff, it may as well be "correct".
 
Back
Top