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Best computer brand of all time!
- Thread starter alexkerhead
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Not even a spare power supply? I kinda need one. . . 
NathanAllan
Veteran Member
DOH! I forgot about the 5100. Almost a strong enough argument to make me change my vote... almost. Now we just need a time traveler to come back looking to save the world with an 800XL.Erik said:Additional IBM introduced their first PC in 1975, about the same time MITS was rolling out ads for the Altair.
Sure, the IBM unit cost a lot more, but it was also far more capable than anything released by anyone else for several more years.
Look up the IBM 5100 when you've got a chance. . .
www.johntitor.com
CP/M User
Veteran Member
carlsson wrote:
> But can you say that IBM all since 1880 has worked
> with (forerunners) to computer technology, or did
> they enter this new field of technology somewhere in
> the 1950's or so?
Actually it was in 1939 under the guidance from Howard Aiken
that IBM became involved in creating the Harvard Mark I - this
of course was completed in 1944.
This machine was quite reliable - however results were slow as
this machine used relays instead of Electronic tubes (Valves).
Unfortunately this machine was the first to have a bad case of
the bug. Relay number 70 Panel F - a Moth was within the
relay. Grace Hopper didn't look impressed.
CP/M User.
> But can you say that IBM all since 1880 has worked
> with (forerunners) to computer technology, or did
> they enter this new field of technology somewhere in
> the 1950's or so?
Actually it was in 1939 under the guidance from Howard Aiken
that IBM became involved in creating the Harvard Mark I - this
of course was completed in 1944.
This machine was quite reliable - however results were slow as
this machine used relays instead of Electronic tubes (Valves).
Unfortunately this machine was the first to have a bad case of
the bug. Relay number 70 Panel F - a Moth was within the
relay. Grace Hopper didn't look impressed.
CP/M User.
Micom 2000
Veteran Member
I of course vote for Big Blue. They were bastards much like Microsoft now. When they saw the potential of personal computers for small business as displayed by Apple withVisicalc, they entered the market. DEC also entered but they were too late with the Rainbow. Radio-Shacks Model 2 also approached this market, but the business-clout respectability of IBM won the day.
"Word processing was nearly non-existant back then because of the limited memory sizes, but spreadsheets were a very good use of the available hardware."
Now here I must disagree with you, Mike. The first programmable word processor was produced by AES a Montreal company around the early 70's. One of the founders of that was Stephan Dorsey who when he sold his share, along with another AES guy founded Micom.
There were many dedicated word processing machines.
I can remember seeing a girlfriends sister's quite expensive machine in the early 70's which she freelanced on for various companies including publishers for printing.
It was a home/small business operation.
When the Micom came out, altho it was a true computer,
with an 8080 CPU, they marketed it as a word processor.
Before the Apple was even out of Woz's garage.
What coaxed Big Blue into entering the small business market was also the inroads the Hyperion was making into the Insurance market. Visicalc on the Apple was also a wakeup call. Their dominance was threatened, CPM spurned them and voila! there was Bill Gates.
IBM has screwed up time and time again. Their response to the open sytem 5150 clones would eventually lead them
to charge rediculously expensive costs to use PS/2 which the consortium of manufacturers blew away with LEM.
There is a reason IBM sold off it's personal computer division. Total incompetancy which could at one time get past the bean-counters overwhelmed by BIG BLUE.
Don't take me wrong, I'm not an IBM-beater, their quality in general is the best.
As for word processing. IBM was pitiful. Not only was Micom and TRS-80 m2 Scriptsit obviously better than anything IBM put out, it is evident in the success of Wordstar andWordperfect.
Laying that to rest, the reason IBM succeeded with the 5150, was bercause of their clout with the bean-counters.
-------------------------------------------------------------
IBM entered the market after Apple showed the potential for a personal computer to be used in a business environment. The design of the PC reflects that; it was physically larger, better constructed, and the hardware/software architecture was better thought out, reflecting IBM's design expertise on other larger systems. The PC wasn't introduced as a home hobbyist machine - it was introduced as a business tool. Home adoption came later.
Here is yet another innovation from IBM that affected personal computers greatly .. the floppy disk.[/QUOTE]
IBM pioneered that ? I thought it was Shugart. I know Micom's Shugart was doing it in 77.
Lawrence
"Word processing was nearly non-existant back then because of the limited memory sizes, but spreadsheets were a very good use of the available hardware."
Now here I must disagree with you, Mike. The first programmable word processor was produced by AES a Montreal company around the early 70's. One of the founders of that was Stephan Dorsey who when he sold his share, along with another AES guy founded Micom.
There were many dedicated word processing machines.
I can remember seeing a girlfriends sister's quite expensive machine in the early 70's which she freelanced on for various companies including publishers for printing.
It was a home/small business operation.
When the Micom came out, altho it was a true computer,
with an 8080 CPU, they marketed it as a word processor.
Before the Apple was even out of Woz's garage.
What coaxed Big Blue into entering the small business market was also the inroads the Hyperion was making into the Insurance market. Visicalc on the Apple was also a wakeup call. Their dominance was threatened, CPM spurned them and voila! there was Bill Gates.
IBM has screwed up time and time again. Their response to the open sytem 5150 clones would eventually lead them
to charge rediculously expensive costs to use PS/2 which the consortium of manufacturers blew away with LEM.
There is a reason IBM sold off it's personal computer division. Total incompetancy which could at one time get past the bean-counters overwhelmed by BIG BLUE.
Don't take me wrong, I'm not an IBM-beater, their quality in general is the best.
As for word processing. IBM was pitiful. Not only was Micom and TRS-80 m2 Scriptsit obviously better than anything IBM put out, it is evident in the success of Wordstar andWordperfect.
Laying that to rest, the reason IBM succeeded with the 5150, was bercause of their clout with the bean-counters.
-------------------------------------------------------------
IBM entered the market after Apple showed the potential for a personal computer to be used in a business environment. The design of the PC reflects that; it was physically larger, better constructed, and the hardware/software architecture was better thought out, reflecting IBM's design expertise on other larger systems. The PC wasn't introduced as a home hobbyist machine - it was introduced as a business tool. Home adoption came later.
Here is yet another innovation from IBM that affected personal computers greatly .. the floppy disk.[/QUOTE]
IBM pioneered that ? I thought it was Shugart. I know Micom's Shugart was doing it in 77.
Lawrence
Every try word processing on a Pet, C64, or Apple ][? The Apple didn't even have lower case standard ! Perhaps some of the other machines were better ...
Shugart developed the 8" floppy while working for IBM. Shugart later went on to do many things, but it started at IBM and I'm sure IBM held the patents.
Shugart developed the 8" floppy while working for IBM. Shugart later went on to do many things, but it started at IBM and I'm sure IBM held the patents.
carlsson
Veteran Member
The C64 was released after the IBM PC 5150, and despite what Commodore tried to say, it never was a business machine like the PET had been.
I have also read that many businesses were hesistant to invest in computers until IBM entered the market, giving the "clear" signal. But if it hadn't been for the other brands and in particular Apple who reached modest success, maybe IBM had remained with their mainframes and items they knew best and already made profit from. The 5100 was news to me, but if it took six years until the next investment into micro computers, the early IBM must've been more like an experiment than a determined business decision that micro computers would be possible to sell shortly.
Sure, a company is all about making business and they had enough R&D to not spend money on marketing a product they were not sure if anyone wanted, but if they had been leading and dominating the industry since the 40'ties, it was a bit holding back once the new technology had arrived.
I have also read that many businesses were hesistant to invest in computers until IBM entered the market, giving the "clear" signal. But if it hadn't been for the other brands and in particular Apple who reached modest success, maybe IBM had remained with their mainframes and items they knew best and already made profit from. The 5100 was news to me, but if it took six years until the next investment into micro computers, the early IBM must've been more like an experiment than a determined business decision that micro computers would be possible to sell shortly.
Sure, a company is all about making business and they had enough R&D to not spend money on marketing a product they were not sure if anyone wanted, but if they had been leading and dominating the industry since the 40'ties, it was a bit holding back once the new technology had arrived.
Vlad
Moderator
I voted IBM, but not for all those reasons. I just like IBM....
-VK
-VK
Terry Yager
Veteran Member
Since the question is essentially a religious one, I chose Kaypro, just because it's my favorite of the choices available.
--T
--T
alexkerhead
Veteran Member
That would have definitely been my second choice. I love my Kaypro, metal case for the win. ^_^Terry Yager said:
Terry Yager
Veteran Member
Actually, my favorite computer is the Epson PX-8, but it isn't on the list. Also, notably absent is the TRS-80, which for a while, was the best-selling personal computer in the world.
--T
--T
alexkerhead
Veteran Member
Radio Shack/Tandy computers didn't leave a lasting impression or legacy, just some of their stuff is really cool. ^_^
Remember, I listed brands, not particular computers.
Remember, I listed brands, not particular computers.
kb2syd
Veteran Member
I love Tandy computers, and have quite an extensive collection of them, but I have to agree with alexkerhead on this.alexkerhead said:
The only lasting thing Radio Shack/Tandy did for the computer market was show everyone how to kill an innovative company. But we have plenty of other examples of that too (e.g. Jack Tramiel).
Microsoft's waffling and slight of hand had a bit to do with the demise too (such as their refusal to fix the bugs in 6000 Xenix, and their killing of Modular Windows).
80sFreak
Experienced Member
mbbrutman said:
I did a little bit of word processing on the C64 for school projects but my dad did a *lot* of that on our 64. I am surprised the Return key lasted - he always used to hit it very hard! He also did a lot of spreadsheet work on it - even got a bonus from the company he worked at for something he automated with a spreadsheet.
Cheers,
80sFreak
Terry Yager
Veteran Member
alexkerhead said:
Excuse me? How about the legacy of affordable computers in the hands of nearly everyone who wanted one? (The Model I hit the shelves at $599.00). As for 'lasting impression', try google. There are at least 3,250,000 hits on computer users who might disagree with you. BTW, TRS-80 is/was a brand, embracing several models.
--T
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Terry Yager
Veteran Member
kb2syd said:
Well, if corporate suicide is a valid criteria, then Osborne doesn't belong on the list either.
--T
Terry Yager
Veteran Member
If we're talking about innovation, contributions, etc. then how come nobody mentioned XEROX? It's PARC project was among the greatest influences of all time.
--T
--T
atari2600a
Veteran Member
Wouldn't TRS-80 be more of a series?
Terry Yager
Veteran Member
What about DEC, also not among the choices? The survey is flawed in that it doesn't allow for enough choices to cover all of the most major of players. (This is why I usually try to avoid 'religious issues' when speaking of computers).
--T
--T
kb2syd
Veteran Member
But they weren't the only afforable computer, nor the first. They just had great a distribution network.Terry Yager said:
Several families of models.Terry Yager said:
You had the Model I family (I, III, IV, 4p),
the II family (II, 12, 16, 16b, 6000),
the 2000 family (of 1),
the 100 (100, 102, 200) family
the CoCos (1, 2, 3)
the pocket computers (PC-1 through PC-8).
I have at least one of each of the above except the pocket computers.
I think once they went to primarily PCs, they standardized on "Tandy" as the name. Some of the above models that continued across that boundry became "Tandy" also.
Don't get me wrong, I love em, but innovative is pushing it.
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