You *have* a DIS chip? Cool! Pics? Dump of the chip's microcode? That would be worth digging out my WCS-11 and loading the code up here.....
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DEC units on ebay
- Thread starter Hugo Holden
- Start date
Hunta
Veteran Member
No, CIS
leegleason
Experienced Member
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2014
- Messages
- 271
Talking about this card has gotten me interested in getting mine working. I did some searching for info and found a discussion of the card in the Guide to Writing a P/OS Driver, appendix E. https://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11...iver_and_Advanced_Programmers_Notes_Jun87.pdf*snort* Well I just made him a reasonable offer (way less than $150). However from the pictures I'll bet it's a DZV11 compatible bulkhead which means the card may be a DZV11 type device.
I've got plenty of those. And a real DZV11 breakout cable if I really want to make my Pro look like a monster
The discussion of the card's registers doesn't seem like it's very DZV adjacent. It doesn't say anytihng about the cable from card to box - that still might be DZVish.
Terri Kennedy
Veteran Member
On an 11/23. The CIS there is an oddball 6 microms in 2 slots via a specialized carrier*.
CIS was available (as a shipped product) on the 11/23 and 11/24 (both microcode assist only) and 11/44 (16-bit dedicated CPU + microcode).
As a developed but not shipped product, on the 11/70 (actually, 11/74 before the project was cancelled and that name was re-used for the 11/70MP) which had a 32-bit dedicated CPU + microcode.
As an apparently abandoned before working silicon, on the DCJ11 (11/54. 73, 83, 84, 93, 94). Revision 2.04 of the "J-11 Programmer's Reference" says: "J-11 CIS performance equal to the 11/44".
I don't believe that any of the aftermarket replacement CPU suppliers (QED, Mentec) ever provided a CIS option on their hardware. RSTS/E goes bonkers if it sees CIS on anything other than the 11/23, 24, or 44).
* Speaking of oddball 11/23 carriers, the Soviet MK1 red1 also uses a wider than normal 40-pin DIP package (which also had 46 pins). It is apparently equivalent to a basic F11 CPU + KEF11-AA FPU, but implemented differently (the DEC version needs the registers in the KTF11-AA MMU, while this one appears not to need the MMU):
Attachments
Terri Kennedy
Veteran Member
You'd think. None of us plan on dying unexpectedly out of the blue, and those who are facing impending death often spend their time doing other things than altering their wills (and wills changed shortly before death are more likely to be challenged, anyway).
I would have hoped that he left his relatives "more money than they know what to do with", which makes this disposal via auction even more reprehensible - it smacks of "I don't want to deal with it, make it go away"-ism. I had thought there was a skeleton staff of 2 people keeping the systems ready to be used again. They'd be in the best position of knowing what items could best be used at other museums, handle scheduling the transfers, etc.
I can understand the art going to auction, since you generally don't need one painting to make another work (with the exception of something like a triptych, which no sane auction house would split up anyway).
Oh you have one? Good then we can figure it out together
Interesting some of the weird stuff that came out for the CTI bus.
Well my Clearpoint PMI board arrived today. Opened it up and.....
All of the jumpers are removed from the PMI side. Just like the last one I bought.
*sigh*
Anyone else gotten one? Do you have the jumpers on the PMI side like the photos?
I'll..... try it next week when I get back from a trip, but they have to be installed and if PMI fails it means that the board was plugged into a Q/Q slot with the jumpers in. I'm curious if anyone else has gotten theirs, and if they report in RT11 as proper PMI memory with parity?
C
All of the jumpers are removed from the PMI side. Just like the last one I bought.
*sigh*
Anyone else gotten one? Do you have the jumpers on the PMI side like the photos?
I'll..... try it next week when I get back from a trip, but they have to be installed and if PMI fails it means that the board was plugged into a Q/Q slot with the jumpers in. I'm curious if anyone else has gotten theirs, and if they report in RT11 as proper PMI memory with parity?
C
Radix
Experienced Member
I'll let you know when mine turns up in the UK -it's still on a trip around the US at present...
pbirkel@gmail.com
Veteran Member
Well, on a more positive note, if the jumpers were IN then the risk of potential prior damage would be higher ...
Hunta
Veteran Member
My DCME-Q4E-F board arrived with jumpers and turned out to be working. But later I replaced all the memory chips, at the same time increasing it to 4 megabytes.
shirsch
Veteran Member
Mine has jumpers on the left for positions 1-10 (numbered from top). Position 11 has no jumper. 12-15 has jumpers on the right.
pbirkel@gmail.com
Veteran Member
I came across some old notes from Eric Smith and realize that I misinterpreted the Gunkies description of the KD11-Q. The hybrid carrier in socket E63 is MICROM 1+2. (I think this was the point that @czunit was making.) The DIS is then implemented in sockets E70 & E75 by non-hybrid MICROMs 23-004B5 and 23-005B5. Socket E58 in the eBay listing seems to hold the Control IC. The Data IC is missing from socket E53. An interesting choice for "harvesting"!
Eric also noted: "DIS was standard in some of the D3xx commercial-oriented LSI-11 systems, such as the D324. The KD11-P and KD11-Q processors are the M7264-BB and M7264-YB, respectively, with the KEV11-C DIS preinstalled." According to the Field Guide the M7264-BB module included the standard 4-Kword MOS RAM which the M7264-YB in the eBay listing lacks.
Hunta
Veteran Member
If someone from VСFED bought the board, perhaps there will be details.. If I had the opportunity to buy, there would definitely be details and research
But alas..Bitly
Experienced Member
If someone from VСFED bought the board, perhaps there will be details.. If I had the opportunity to buy, there would definitely be details and research
There are two parts to a MICROM, a ROM and a PLA. I haven't seen much documentation on it, but the structure is briefly described in Supnik's paper on microcode bugs (uCode Bugs). I've also seen mention, though I can't recall where, one or both parts are programmed in the diffusion layer, so stripping down to bare silicon and dying with a special chemical is required to show programmed vs. un-programmed cells. DEC may have patented the ROM/PLA structure, though I haven't looked for it.
I don't believe there is much value in destroying a rare working chip in the hopes of creating a knockoff for a couple dead(ish) languages.
CW
reinhardtjh
Experienced Member
This listing has me confused...
It seems like they are bypassing the normal Ebay method and looks like the scam posts from earlier, but I know the seller has been legit fairly recently.
It seems like they are bypassing the normal Ebay method and looks like the scam posts from earlier, but I know the seller has been legit fairly recently.
DougIngraham
Veteran Member
I think this is legit. If you look at the schedule of dates and price drops it makes sense. I am guessing it will be a series of Buy it now price changes and all go through eBay. I guess we will see, It is a nice looking 8/i. Never seen a High Speed Reader without the punch before. And it would have been nice to see what is in that upper part of the cabinet backplane. Because of the controllers in the other cabinets (separate listings) this might be a negibus 8/i or there is a Posi to Negi converter. This machine is so clean I would easily pay $5000 for it if I was looking for an 8/i.This listing has me confused...
It seems like they are bypassing the normal Ebay method and looks like the scam posts from earlier, but I know the seller has been legit fairly recently.
But so many questions!
daver2
10k Member
I see there is an RF08/RS08 on another listing....
My wife would kill me if I bid on any of these - and won!
Dave
My wife would kill me if I bid on any of these - and won!
Dave
DougIngraham
Veteran Member
That and the TU58 controller in a third listing.
The RF08 (and DF32) are not practical to put in back service. It would be fun to have and operate the controller with emulated drives. You were never supposed to turn off the real drives. My DF32 drives have been off since about 1980. The head is sort of stuck to the platter. That may not be the case with the RF08. I have no personal experience with them but it seems likely. Not many survive. And it will certainly go for more than $500 for the rack alone.
No comment on the wife thing.
jpk
Member
Anyone keen on a free set of VAX-11/730 boards & back plane? I've been on the lookout for a BA11-A chassis and power supply for the PDP11/44 boards & back plane I have. This showed up on eBay but being in New Zealand the logistics are challenging. If someone, ideally in MA, is willing to disassemble a VAX-11/730 and ship just the empty chassis and power supply at my expense I'd gift anything remaining parts as thanks.
VAX-11/730 Mini Computer – DEC / Digital Equipment Corp | eBay
Digital’s VAX family of 32-bit “super” mini computers was designed a successor to the highly successful 16-bit PDP-11. The original three VAX computers included the famous VAX-11/780, the mid-sized VAX- 11/750 and the lower cost VAX-11/730.
www.ebay.com
DougIngraham
Veteran Member
I mentioned this to Vince and it didn't make sense to him. The actual listing is for a TC58. I sleuthed for a few minutes and got nothing relevant. I did get a mention of TC59 which is a mag tape controller for the PDP9. In some other reading I found mention of TC58 and TC59 as controllers with a DEC specific interface to the tape drives which were made by different vendors but all having the same interface to the controller. The TU10 and TU20 drives were mentioned.
I am going to be back in Oregon next week and hopefully we can arrange to see these items.