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8088 minttin

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Nec V40

Nec V40

IBMMuseum said:
...Getting back to the original thread, I had desoldered a small form-factor V40 from a FAX board, meaning that it should be in stock somewhere or able to be pilaged from a board. This would be an 8-bit CPU (unknown for the minimum/maximum setting) with a few support chips onboard to make it so the OP could do his project.
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To show how small this version of the NEC V40 is I have attached a picture (alongside an IBM-labeled 8088 CPU that is a regular-sized 40-pin DIP). This V40 will be thinner on the PCB than the 8088 is alone in height, and about 40% of the width. Just the fact of including a few of the 8-bit support chips needed for the 8088/V20 would make it worthwhile too...
 

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if you use the v40 or v50, presumably the onboard peripherals (replacements for external ic's that are typically found in 8088/8086 based systems), the i/o addresses of those functions will differ, so you'd be sacrificing some degree of IBM compatiblity. If that's what you were looking for.
There are other books besides Grossblatt's. I have a few of them, probably in storage, but if anyone is dying to know, pm or e-wail me. I'll dig them out. Eventually...
There's always the Radio Electronics Robot Brain (circa 1988). A series of projects aimed at producing a robot thing. Really just a set of wheels with a forklift fork thing, maybe an arm. Had an 80188 uP. Probably not extremely peecee compatible (see 1st paragraph) but fun nevertheless. It had complete artwork right in the mag too. Been meaning to try my hand at etching my own board from that, but I've been put off...
You can think of the 8088/86 in minimum mode like an 8085, sort of. But can access the full 1meg of memory. The Peanut and Victor 9000 were wired into minimum mode. "www.micro-zone.com" Brian was working on a retrofit (no pun intended) to interface an 8087 to the Peanut. Of course it would need reconfiguring in maximum mode (no ancillary processors on board in minimum mode), and since the Peanut was hard wired in minimum mode...you guess it, the board would have to plug into the 8088 socket, and have a nutha 8088 on board. Something like that. Leave me alone already.
Thrashbarg...cool stuph! ;)
 
Chris2005 said:
if you use the v40 or v50, presumably the onboard peripherals (replacements for external ic's that are typically found in 8088/8086 based systems), the i/o addresses of those functions will differ, so you'd be sacrificing some degree of IBM compatiblity. If that's what you were looking for...
Click to expand...
There are PC-compatible systems using the V40 out there. I have one myself (a Packard Bell unit). Someone else here talks about their laptop using one (and I spotted this today, but please don't drop this post in "Auctions" ;) : http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300037906020).

The original poster said: "Im trying to make a 8088 based computer into a Altoids bin.Its going to have a 8 bit parralel port,a analog port for music,and port for a keyboard a and a mini screen.Along with 128k*8 RAM and 128k*8 ROM.ANY suggestions for parts (must be small).Should be finished in 3 months."

This version of the V40 (I didn't mention the one I have is 10MHz) fits the "small" bill. For the functions he wants the V40 onboard support chips (DMA controllers, interrupt controller, timers, clock generator, DRAM refresh control unit, no NPU support) will do just fine.
 
maybe peecee compatibility wasn't his aim, so that's an assumption on my part. I don't know how your unit gets away with full peecee compatibility. Perhaps it ignores the integrated peripherals? I don't know all that much about v40s and such, just assumed they were like the 80188/80186, who's on chip things differ in port assignments from a peecee.
Maybe you should look into the PBell thing and let us know.
 
Chris2005 said:
...I don't know how your [Packard Bell with V40] unit gets away with full peecee compatibility. Perhaps it ignores the integrated peripherals? I don't know all that much about v40s and such, just assumed they were like the 80188/80186, who's on chip things differ in port assignments from a peecee.
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Packard Bell using NEC chips is no big surprise (the companies were affiliated until just very recently), but it is highly unlikely that a motherboard would be designed with a certain CPU to ignore some of the circuitry in place (if that were even possible). Why wouldn't they just use an 8088? And for the V40 laptop too, where space is at a premium?
Which integrated peripheral chips differed in port assignments for the 80186/80188 from the standard PC layout? Much of the 80186/80188 failure to be used in the PC industry was just a fact of being too little, too late. The irony being that they were commonly used on many controller devices later.
Chris2005 said:
Maybe you should look into the PBell thing and let us know.
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Sure, I'll get right on it...
 
the integrated peripherals of at least the original 80186/80188 were meant to take the place of some of the discrete ic's typically found on say a peecee mobo. And as you probably know, they're assigned port addresses and whatnot (or should I say the discrete components are when they're hard wired into the mobo). These "integrated peripherals" are going to inhabit different parts of the i/o space as compared to the peecee's discrete-peripherals. I'm sure you're no stranger to an IBM mobo - the ic's I'm referring to all begin with the number "8".
That's my understanding. I'm not an engineer to say the least.
There have been many "other" releases of these chips, and it's not unbelievable that some of these could have reassigned port addresses. And the NEC chips are different animals altogether (similar masks I'm sure, but I'm sure they could have had the license to modify them here and there).
And come to think of it, I have a later Ampro Little Board PC thing, which has a v40, and that is *I'm pretty sure* "100%" peecee compatible.
You're wasting time LOL LOL

BY the way, are your initials S.A. If ya don't mind me asking?
 
IBMMuseum said:
Packard Bell using NEC chips is no big surprise (the companies were affiliated until just very recently)
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And the guy that now ownes the packard bell name also owns some IP from Tandy. He purchased it from Samsung who got it when AST went belly up.

What a tangled web we weave.
 
Chris2005 said:
hoser who cares? What does that have to do with anything? Sheesh
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I care....

All the crossbreeding and inbreeding leads to quite a tangled IP web. I happen to be facinated by where all this winds up in the end.

If you care don't then ignore my posts. I know you know how to do that. Takes all of a second to scan by it.:p
 
Thanks for mentioning it. I'm in a foul mood today. I think we should retire this part of the thread to PM. We can hurl insults at each other and not offend the delicate senses of the masses...

:)
 
Chris2005 said:
the integrated peripherals of at least the original 80186/80188 were meant to take the place of some of the discrete ic's typically found on say a peecee mobo. And as you probably know, they're assigned port addresses and whatnot (or should I say the discrete components are when they're hard wired into the mobo). These "integrated peripherals" are going to inhabit different parts of the i/o space as compared to the peecee's discrete-peripherals. I'm sure you're no stranger to an IBM mobo - the ic's I'm referring to all begin with the number "8".
That's my understanding. I'm not an engineer to say the least.
There have been many "other" releases of these chips, and it's not unbelievable that some of these could have reassigned port addresses. And the NEC chips are different animals altogether (similar masks I'm sure, but I'm sure they could have had the license to modify them here and there).
And come to think of it, I have a later Ampro Little Board PC thing, which has a v40, and that is *I'm pretty sure* "100%" peecee compatible...
Click to expand...
I remarked above that the integrated peripheral chips were "DMA controllers, interrupt controller, timers, clock generator, DRAM refresh control unit" and you tell me the chip numbers begin with an "8" (which they do) to narrow it down for me? You state that they will be in different I/O port locations than the PC architecture but give no further information to the source of that data? Maybe the I/O port locations of much of those peripheral chips could be mapped (where the ROM code of whichever system the CPU is in sets up the port location according to the circuit's design) instead of hard-coded?

Think more flexibly. There is a reason that these CPUs with integrated peripheral chips were used in many different designs, including a few PC-compatible computers. My final comment here is that I think the V40 will do what the OP wanted in a small design.

Chris2005 said:
You're wasting time LOL LOL
BY the way, are your initials S.A. If ya don't mind me asking?
Click to expand...
I took this in context with other comments that I was being asked whether I was a "Smart Ass" or "Stupid Ass"...
 
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"I remarked above that the integrated peripheral chips were "DMA controllers, interrupt controller, timers, clock generator, DRAM refresh control unit and you tell me the chip numbers begin with an "8" (which they do) to narrow it down for me?"

Whoops guess I missed that part. Hey to err is human...

"You state that they will be in different I/O port locations than the PC architecture but give no further information to the source of that data?"

Just understand it was on real good authority. The dude is also an a leading authority on adhesives. Uses 'em all the time...

"Maybe the I/O port locations of much of those peripheral chips could be mapped (where the ROM code of whichever system the CPU is in sets up the port location according to the circuit's design) instead of hard-coded?"

The discrete components of a peecee mobo could take on any number of port addresses. But that's irrelevant. And I'm here asking the question, are the port assignments of the integreated peripherals re-assignable? And if so by firmware?

"Think more flexibly. There is a reason that these CPUs with integrated peripheral chips were used in many different designs, including a few PC-compatible computers. My final comment here is that I think the V40 will do what the OP wanted in a small design."

The 80186/80188 were used OVERWHELMINGLY in sbc's and the like. The 80186/80188 showed up in precious few peeceez. This much I know. And with the exception of 1 (that I know of), they were all pretty incompatible. And I did mention that I myself, even I, own a small form factor peecee based on the v40 that is probably fully compatible. So why the debate?


"No, they're "F.O"..."

I won't stop to contemplate if those are your actual initials or not. Because if I do, it might lead me to believe you're actively trying to be impolite.
 
hoser who cares? What does that have to do with anything? Sheesh
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Chris,

What the heck was the motivation behind that post?

It is not called for. Chill out.
 
I care too. It's super interesting, all the history of the IP addresses. I learned all about it when I had to do my own DNS at work. Found all about ARP and RARP and MIL, etc. Was very interesting! I even learned how all those DNS servers cooperate with each other and why it takes HOURS for the "DNS Tree" to stabilize again after some lookup changes.
 
chuckcmagee said:
I care too. It's super interesting, all the history of the IP addresses. I learned all about it when I had to do my own DNS at work. Found all about ARP and RARP and MIL, etc. Was very interesting! I even learned how all those DNS servers cooperate with each other and why it takes HOURS for the "DNS Tree" to stabilize again after some lookup changes.
Click to expand...

Aarrgh! I'm in AcronymHell! I thought he meant IP as in 'IntellectualProperty'...

--T
 
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