C64 IN PET S' CASE

[daver2]

Hugo,

The pin numbers on the PCB are the wrong way around (this doesn't help either)!

Dave

 

[Hugo Holden]

Hugo,

The pin numbers on the PCB are the wrong way around (this doesn't help either)!

Dave

As I tried to explain to Desperado, it doesn't matter that the pin numbers are backwards compared to Commodore's pin numbers. The sequence of the signals and earth's is the same, it is just a matter of plugging the connector the correct way around.

Unless Desperado has modified the connections on J2 on his board, to be different, than what is on his schematic. Or the arrangement on the physical board is different to the schematics.

It is not that complicated, 3 unique signal wires and three earth wires after all.

(But I'm sure I told this story before on this thread or similar. I had a car exhaust system made of three parts, one had the tail pipe, the center section the mufflers, and the other section went to the manifold with a unique fitting. The only possible way to foul it up would be if the center section got reversed, even then, that might have been difficult. The mechanic struggled with it for hours trying to figure out which way to fit the three pipe sections and said "It was a real jigsaw". After that I decided it was better to work on the car myself).

 

[Desperado]

As I tried to explain to Desperado, it doesn't matter that the pin numbers are backwards compared to Commodore's pin numbers. The sequence of the signals and earth's is the same, it is just a matter of plugging the connector the correct way around.

I connected the wires correctly Hugo

 

[Desperado]

Good evening guys, unfortunately I announce that I am definitively abandoning this project.
This evening while I was trying to redo some connections, I must have reversed the input connector on J1 again. The fuse on the Commodore 64 blew, I replaced it but now it always blows and I no longer have any type of signal. I'm tired, I've made you waste a lot of time and patience and I apologize for this. I thank you very much, because I have learned many things from this experience and I believe that I will need it for my next works, I have some computers to fix and I can no longer waste time and make you waste any more time on this project. Thanks again to Dave, Hugo and Antony!

 

[daver2]

As you appear to have blown something up permanently now, I think this is the right decision.

It would have been nice to have got to the bottom of it, but I think this project was beyond your capabilities; but you had to learn that for yourself.

You still need to learn some theory I am afraid...

Dave

 

[Hugo Holden]

I'm not sure that fixing computers is the better line of work for Desperado, right now, because without some background in electronic theory and digital circuitry, it is a very difficult thing to be able to diagnose and repair something as complex as a computer. It could even be thought of as foolhardy.

So mostly, it will be a case of him not knowing what to do and having to ask for help on the Forum for most repairs. This is like using the Forum as a defacto repair service with free Technicians doing his work.

Also it is very difficult even for a very experienced Technician to repair something completely by remote control, when it is not in front of them on the desk, but half a World away.

In addition Desperado is not likely doing any of the computers he works on any favors (such as the now damaged C64) and will make it more difficult for other Technicians to repair them later.

Desperado; here is my advice:

I think you should down tools, just for now, and leave the computers alone for a while.

Instead, buy this book, The Art of Electronics, and get a blank exercise book to take notes. Writing things down, will help you remember them.

I have the 2nd Edn of this book, it has practically everything in it that you need to know to be able to properly diagnose and repair digital and analog circuits, because it will help you understand how things work. As a result you will be able to determine why sometimes they don't work. The book is good, it is fairly light on Math and has many practical examples.

This book, especially the early editions are now quite reasonably priced, one example:

The Art of Electronics by Paul Horowitz, Winfield Hill (Hardcover, 1989) for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for The Art of Electronics by Paul Horowitz, Winfield Hill (Hardcover, 1989) at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Start at the beginning of the book, work at least a few hours every day. It may take a few months to finish it. When you have read it once, go back to the beginning and do it again and check your notes.

On the second reading of the book, if you don't understand something especially about the Digital electronics sections, you can always post a question in the Hardware section of the Forum and there will be many people, including me, who will help explain that thing.

You really have to convince yourself somehow, that it is never too late to learn something new, no matter your age or past experiences.

But the thing is, you have to be prepared to put in the work & study yourself, nobody else can do this for you.

Others "telling you answers" all the time simply robs you of the learning experiences and problem solving ability that you need to acquire, to turn you into a good and largely independent Technician who can then repair most computers and only seek help for the tricky ones. No matter how good anyone is at repairs, sooner or later everyone can do with some help, and there is no shame in that. Two heads are better than one as the old saying goes.

And it is the only way forward for you, to save yourself from the desperation you have experienced being forced to ask for help, even for very simple electronic problems.

If you do what I suggest, you will never regret it and looking back in 6 months time, you will be glad you did.

 

[Ruud]

A pity. I had hoped to read one day: "Hey, it works!".

 

[daver2]

I think we were really close at one point, but it all went 'belly up' at the last hurdle I am afraid.

Dave

 

[Desperado]

I'm not sure that fixing computers is the better line of work for Desperado, right now, because without some background in electronic theory and digital circuitry, it is a very difficult thing to be able to diagnose and repair something as complex as a computer. It could even be thought of as foolhardy.

So mostly, it will be a case of him not knowing what to do and having to ask for help on the Forum for most repairs. This is like using the Forum as a defacto repair service with free Technicians doing his work.

Also it is very difficult even for a very experienced Technician to repair something completely by remote control, when it is not in front of them on the desk, but half a World away.

In addition Desperado is not likely doing any of the computers he works on any favors (such as the now damaged C64) and will make it more difficult for other Technicians to repair them later.

Desperado; here is my advice:

I think you should down tools, just for now, and leave the computers alone for a while.

Instead, buy this book, The Art of Electronics, and get a blank exercise book to take notes. Writing things down, will help you remember them.

I have the 2nd Edn of this book, it has practically everything in it that you need to know to be able to properly diagnose and repair digital and analog circuits, because it will help you understand how things work. As a result you will be able to determine why sometimes they don't work. The book is good, it is fairly light on Math and has many practical examples.

This book, especially the early editions are now quite reasonably priced, one example:

The Art of Electronics by Paul Horowitz, Winfield Hill (Hardcover, 1989) for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for The Art of Electronics by Paul Horowitz, Winfield Hill (Hardcover, 1989) at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Start at the beginning of the book, work at least a few hours every day. It may take a few months to finish it. When you have read it once, go back to the beginning and do it again and check your notes.

On the second reading of the book, if you don't understand something especially about the Digital electronics sections, you can always post a question in the Hardware section of the Forum and there will be many people, including me, who will help explain that thing.

You really have to convince yourself somehow, that it is never too late to learn something new, no matter your age or past experiences.

But the thing is, you have to be prepared to put in the work & study yourself, nobody else can do this for you.

Others "telling you answers" all the time simply robs you of the learning experiences and problem solving ability that you need to acquire, to turn you into a good and largely independent Technician who can then repair most computers and only seek help for the tricky ones. No matter how good anyone is at repairs, sooner or later everyone can do with some help, and there is no shame in that. Two heads are better than one as the old saying goes.

And it is the only way forward for you, to save yourself from the desperation you have experienced being forced to ask for help, even for very simple electronic problems.

If you do what I suggest, you will never regret it and looking back in 6 months time, you will be glad you did.

Thanks so much Hugo, can i found this book on Italian language maybe?

 

[Hugo Holden]

I think the book has been translated into Italian:

L'arte dell'elettronica. Analisi e progettazione di circuiti : Horowitz, Paul, Hill, Winfield: Amazon.it: Libri

L'arte dell'elettronica. Analisi e progettazione di circuiti : Horowitz, Paul, Hill, Winfield: Amazon.it: Libri

www.amazon.it

 

[Desperado]

It's not exactly cheap but I will definitely buy it, thanks for the advice!

 

[daver2]

>>> Thanks so much Hugo, can i found this book on Italian language maybe?

Question: Why couldn't Desperado do a google search himself rather than asking the VCFED community to do one for him?

Knowing that the book is now in Italian, you can do your own further search can't you to find a cheaper copy... Incidentally, you can download the PDF file for the English version for 'free'. I wonder if you can do the same for the Italian version...

Dave

 

[Malc]

I see the 3rd English edition is available for free PDF format, Not beginner friendly though for me anyway.

 

[Hugo Holden]

I would definitely get the real book. Pdf's are hopeless for thumbing through quickly and they don't lend themselves as well to serious study either. You cannot beat a real book.

 

[Desperado]

I see the 3rd English edition is available for free PDF format, Not beginner friendly though for me anyway.

I thank you but I will definitely take an Italian version to better understand the contents of the book...