Chuck(G)
25k Member
Depends. They all pretty much use some variation of Gerber files. Almost all have either RS232C or floppy drives.
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XP Forever?
- Thread starter Quagmire
- Start date
geneb
Veteran Member
CNC controllers don't process model files or drawings themselves. They pretty much only take G-Code (or some proprietary equivalent) that's been generated by a tool path generating program like MasterCAM, Vectric's Aspire, etc.
g.
g.
Well there is a"gotcha", but it's not XP's fault. I was attempting to install XP in my gaming rig (ASUS Sabertooth 990FX), when I encountered a BSOD. Haven't seen one of those in a long while, and it had me thinking my big box was about to take a dump. I took a good look at the screen and the error was as follows"
STOP: 0X0000007B (0XF78D2524, 0XC0000034, 0X00000000, 0X00000000)
Turns out the error code was telling me that the BIOS was set for ACHI instead of IDE (evidently XP doesn't like ACHI). That's something you wouldn't normally think about unless you were building a new system. So, to me me, it would be a big pain in the tush to have to go into the BIOS and muck things up just to get to play with XP for a while. My solution is to be content with XP on my PIII tweener.
STOP: 0X0000007B (0XF78D2524, 0XC0000034, 0X00000000, 0X00000000)
Turns out the error code was telling me that the BIOS was set for ACHI instead of IDE (evidently XP doesn't like ACHI). That's something you wouldn't normally think about unless you were building a new system. So, to me me, it would be a big pain in the tush to have to go into the BIOS and muck things up just to get to play with XP for a while. My solution is to be content with XP on my PIII tweener.
Scali
Veteran Member
I suppose if your system comes with XP drivers, you can fix that by making a driver floppy and pressing F6 during installation to load the AHCI drivers.
I had the same thing with RAID systems back in the day.
Thanks for the heads up. The mobo does support XP 32/64-bit AHCI. I just took a peek inside the ASUS Sabertooth chipset driver package and found the 32/64-bit AHCI drivers. I've had this mobo since late 2011 or early 2012 and it's probably on the backside of XP support, as far as mobo's go. If I decide to build that Intel rig next year with the X170 chipset, it's doubtful that they will support XP on desktops, however there does seem to be some support for laptops. Something that I need to check-up on. If the new AMD Zen CPU catches on, and is comparable performance-wise to the Core I7's or the new Intel Skylake series chips (1st reports I7 Still wins), I'll probably go with that, as I'm a AMD slappy anyway.
GiGaBiTe
Veteran Member
Interesting, I always assumed both the 8xx and 9xx Pentium Ds used double dies. The 8xx Pentium Ds were terrible though, they were really expensive for mediocre performance and had ridiculous TDPs. I owned an 830 and 840 once upon a time and I could never keep them under 70C even with a massive Asus V60 tower cooler. I ended up selling them because I got tired of the heat and power issues they caused.
As for what constitutes a true dual core design, I think if you can manage to shoehorn two cores on a single die, that's it. It really doesn't matter how cache management works or if they have to communicate over the FSB instead of an internal ring bus.
The only way it'd ever happen is if someone patched all of the OS libraries and kernel that used the offending instructions with replacements. You'd then have to write a driver to trap the instructions and emulate them for other applications that may use them. I don't see anyone ever trying to do it though because it's a waste of time. You can't do anything useful with XP on such a slow machine, it'd just be bragging rights that you were able to.
Chuck(G)
25k Member
...and on a 486, Win2K is fine and actually does a respectable job.
But yeah, the antivirus stuff (MSE, AVG, etc.) just sucks up too much on a slower machine. Microsoft's requirements for XP obviously didn't take that into account. It's a shame that for an Internet-connected machine, antivirus/anti-malware is a requirement for XP.
But yeah, the antivirus stuff (MSE, AVG, etc.) just sucks up too much on a slower machine. Microsoft's requirements for XP obviously didn't take that into account. It's a shame that for an Internet-connected machine, antivirus/anti-malware is a requirement for XP.
Update: Found the AHCI drivers and proceeded with the XP 32-bit install. The only problem was that my Sabertooth 990FX mobo's UEFI BIOS would not see the HD's 2nd primary partition where XP was to be installed. Windows 10 saw it, but the UEFI only saw the HD's 1st primary partition. Problem solved - blew all the crap away on the HD and installed XP on the 1st primary partition. All XP drivers installed flawlessly as well as the 7970 video cards in crossfire at 2560 x 1440. Plan on loading up some games tomorrow and see how it goes. Was able to get the update hack installed but Firefox says it can't find the update server. Probably need to get on another forum later on and find out what that's all about. Microsoft Security Essentials installed and updated itself okay. The HD is a 600 GB Western Digital Velociraptor spinning at 10K rpm. The system itself flies and I can't wait to get some high-end games up and running.
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Scali
Veteran Member
Yes, one major advantage of the dual-die design was that Intel could mix-and-match their dies. Instead of needing a single die where both cores were capable of a certain bin, they could just bin all dies individually, and pick two from each bin.
This greatly improved yields, and probably also resulted in being able to lower the TDP somewhat.
Well, my issue is with the use of the word 'true'.
Yes, shoehorning two cores on a single die is a 'dual core design'. But back in the day, the AMD camp claimed that a single die was a 'true' dual core design, which was somehow superior to Intel's dual die solution. They tried that again with the quadcore, where AMD built a monolithic die, while Intel put two Core2 Duo dies together.
This is false. If you do not take advantage of the fact that all cores are on the same die in some way, then a multi-die solution is better, because you get the same performance, and it results in better yields.
So I say, if you want to talk about a 'true' dual core design, it needs to be a design that is more than the sum of its parts. A design that can only be built on a single die, where the dual core is 'atomic'.
Note also that the FSB *is* an internal ring bus, more or less.
That is, the Pentium 4 had a bus snooping algorithm, so although the FSB connects the CPU with the chipset, the chipset wasn't actually required when communicating between the dies. Each die could see what the other die did on the bus. The data was picked up directly from the bus.
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vwestlife
Veteran Member
This comment was posted on one of my videos: "Many of us still use XP Pro due to hardware requirements of other connected devices. When a machine costs over 1 million USD and was supplied running XP Pro you are going to use it until the manufacturer offers an upgrade. Conveyor systems don't need the latest software to transport product around the plant. It only needs to know which sensor(s) to respond to and for how many milliseconds to run the motors. The computers involved have no connection to the outside world and cannot be infected."
The XP install is up and running. I applied the registry hack for updates but there is a problem. The XP Window Update function returns a "Server not found" error. I'm wondering if MS finally took the site down. If you have an XP machine could you please check an see if you are still getting updates. Also, has anyone been able to install IE 8 on XP?
Scali
Veteran Member
I've used Microsoft Update via IE and its ActiveX plugin just a week ago or so. Worked okay.
Yes, I have it installed on all my XP machines I believe (both 32-bit and 64-bit installations). I think you need to have SP2 installed first, and probably various other updates. And you need to have the right installer for IE8, because iirc each OS has its own version of it (XP, Vista, 7).
Chuck(G)
25k Member
If you've installed the 2009 POSReady registry mod in XP, you get both IE8 and regular updates as part of automatic updates (still sent out by MS) to XP. It takes but a few seconds and doesn't affect the installation. It's also worthwhile installing the "Unofficial SP4" CD--it saves a lot of time.
For a lighter-weight XP installation, it's worthwhile installing POSReady--basically the same as XPe.
For a lighter-weight XP installation, it's worthwhile installing POSReady--basically the same as XPe.
Problem solved! Apparently Framework 2.0 didn't update when SP3 was applied. I downloaded Framework 4.5 and IE 8 installed itself and Windows updates magically came alive. Thanks all for indulging me on this one. Bottom line: I really like the way XP runs on my big rig.
HopToIt
Member
The POSReady is a nifty workaround, but it's not really a convincing solution for any critical commercial or business platform still running XP. This follow-up to the POSReady article came out nearly a year ago:
http://www.zdnet.com/article/hacked-windows-xp-still-updates-still-a-bad-idea/
For personal computing with low chance of being specifically targeted by cyber mifits, running XP with the ongoing updates trick and a current browser is like going past your recommended oil change interval. But I would certainly hope my bank isn't cutting costs on upgrading their machines to an OS with a stronger security foundation.
Chuck(G)
25k Member
In at least two of my systems, I'm running real POSReady 2009 (which appears to be nearly the same as WinFLP). Anyone who uses Windows in a mission-critical application has problems, no matter what version it is. The computer I'm running on for casual surfing is Ubuntu; the server it connects to is OpenBSD. I keep a copy of XP on Virtual Box on this system because I have a couple of applications that requires it (the vendor refuses to come out with a Linux/UNIX/BSD version and has done so for years). I suppose I could upgrade to Windows 7, but why?
But reality will always trump software updates. About three hours ago, I was conferring with a client about his floppy issues--on his NC gear running CP/M-68K.
But reality will always trump software updates. About three hours ago, I was conferring with a client about his floppy issues--on his NC gear running CP/M-68K.
I think you taking this all too seriously. Most of us here are hobbyists and could care less about the commercial ramifications of the recently deposed OS. If it runs it runs. Tinkering with old OS's is what we do. As for myself, I've got my XP fine tuned and it's running games the way they were intended. Google thinks enough of XP that there is now a version of Chrome available for it. I have it installed and the browser function is as good as my W10 lash-up, as far as I can tell. Firefox works great too. Unless I'm on-line your not going to get to me, so the so-called security issue is moot. And even if you do get in - so what? I'll just reinstall and start over. I've been playing with this PC stuff since the late 70's and have yet to lose anything do to an attack. Sure, I had my share of creepy stuff infiltrate my box from time to time, but I've always managed to come out on top. I'm not losing any sleep over Stuxnet either. In conclusion, I fully understand Microsoft's position; they want to sell you something from time to time or at least every other year. But for my money, XP is just too good to throw in the trash can.
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HopToIt
Member
Agreed, for the 32-bit power user XP still reigns for stability, predictability, customization, and broadest range of applications.
vwestlife
Veteran Member
Sure, XP has security vulnerabilties that even the WEPOS updates won't patch. But "it still works, it's paid for, and I'm used to it" is an extremely convincing real-world argument to continue using it. It's the same reason why people and companies continue using decades-old power tools, even though they lack all the modern safety features. Vehicles, too -- according to this article, 25% of all pickup trucks on the road today are over 20 years old!
A real-world test of trying to infect XP (with proper anti-virus/anti-malware software in use) by visiting a long list of known-insecure web sites:
A real-world test of trying to infect XP (with proper anti-virus/anti-malware software in use) by visiting a long list of known-insecure web sites:
Scali
Veteran Member
Windows 7 and later are considerably more hardened security-wise than XP was.
They also handle multiple cores, HyperThreading, large amounts of memory and that sort of modern thing better than XP did.
In my experience, Windows XP ran fine on a Core2 Duo, but once I upgraded to a Core i7, XP didn't seem to know what to do with all those cores. It still felt like a single-core mostly. Going to Windows Vista or newer really makes for a much smoother experience on a multicore system. Probably mostly because of the IO-prioritizing it does. It no longer randomly handles IO requests, but groups them by thread/process, which you can actually hear: your HDD does a lot less 'scratching'. It greatly improves performance and responsiveness.