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Why did early home computers rely on terminals?

falter

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This is one of those historical questions I think I have partial answers for but maybe not the whole picture.

Why didn't the earliest microcomputers (and many that existed after) have video output (and keyboard input) right out of the gate? Obviously the ability to generate video on a screen affordably had been demonstrated by Don Lancaster in 1973.. and Robert Suding had a video card developed for the Mark-8 by late 74. Why didn't the Altair et al dispense with panel switches and terminals altogether and go to direct video and keyboard i/o? And why did terminals persist for some models of personal microcomputers for years later?

I thought the answer might be cost.. but clearly having to purchase both a computer and terminal wasn't exactly cheap. Was it about cost savings on the other side (ie you replace the computer but the terminal can be reused?)

Just one of those curiosity questions rattling around in my head at 10pm.
 
Teletypes, notably the model 33 were cheaper than their CRT counterparts. Video generation added to the chip count, as did the input logic for the keyboard, its input decoding and the keyboard itself. While a model 33 was still something like $600 used it (usually) included the paper tape punch and reader so you got slow-speed physical storage for free and because it was part of the RS-232/current loop circuitry it saved having to design or included a cassette interface.
 
I figured people who wanted a home computer in the 70's were people who were familiar with larger machines at work, so they just got used to using terminals.

Also were some of those early machines just purchased to interface with a machine or task where once setup you just forgot about it?
 
By the time the Altair arrived, teletypes were being retired and replaced with CRT terminals. That allows for many more terminals to handle the larger class sizes. The local university would happily let any hobbyist haul away a junked teletype for free. The serial port was trivial to design. Adding a variation on the TV Typewriter was easy and didn't lock a manufacturer into carrying very expensive inventory that only worked with one system. Remember just how small and undercapitalized many of these new computer companies were.

Cassette systems had a similar virtue. Many of the initial purchasers had previously obtained a cassette deck. Throw together a simple interface and it is ready. Difficult to get much cheaper than using what is already available to the user.
 
I thought the answer might be cost.. but clearly having to purchase both a computer and terminal wasn't exactly cheap.
Cost on the other side. One would need to develop and produce a video chip in order to make that possible. So the manufacturer would have to invest more. Also, since graphics wasn't a thing at that time, just using a serial connection to a terminal was simply more reasonable and a proven way to interact with computers.

Besides, the Altair and clones were just S-100 systems. It was up to the user to extend the system. If you wanted a video-out board, you could add one.
 
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Have to agree with cost being a giant factor. Computing was getting faster exponentially, and why have to replace things that already worked fine. It would be cheaper to just invest in a decent terminal, and upgrade as time goes on.
 
My first microcomputer was a second-hand Motorola MEK6800 D2 that had been enhanced with more RAM and a digital to analogue converter by its original owner. This was obviously a keypad and 7-segment display user interface. However, I did learn some valuable skills using this machine.

My next machine was a Nascom-1 kit that I purchased and assembled. This (as you well know) had a beautiful keyboard - but a very troublesome VDU interface to a standard television using an RF modulator.

I think this was the key enabler for these (and similar) kits/cards/machines where a conventional TV could be used as an output device (rather than purchasing a bespoke monitor or teletype). TVs were now common place in households.

The use of a bespoke monitor or teletype would have put these machines out of the reach of the target market.

However, the very technology that made these kits/cards/machines popular were their downfall! They were so popular that the supply couldn't keep up with the demand - and long lead times were commonplace.

Dave
 
By the time the Altair arrived, teletypes were being retired and replaced with CRT terminals. That allows for many more terminals to handle the larger class sizes. The local university would happily let any hobbyist haul away a junked teletype for free.
Adding to that for just how many model 33's were around, Teletype touted they had built and sold over 600 000 model 33's by 1976. (and the model 33 was still 4 more years away from being discontinued!) This number may only be machines assembled by Teletype themselves. My Marsland is an example of a 33 that was OEM'd and assembled in a foreign market to dodge tariffs on shipping assembled units. Internationally it's possible there was at one point over 1 million terminals based on the model 33 design. This also doesn't include how many other machines were entering the surplus market like the model 32 or the model 35.
 
Adding to that for just how many model 33's were around, Teletype touted they had built and sold over 600 000 model 33's by 1976. (and the model 33 was still 4 more years away from being discontinued!) This number may only be machines assembled by Teletype themselves. My Marsland is an example of a 33 that was OEM'd and assembled in a foreign market to dodge tariffs on shipping assembled units. Internationally it's possible there was at one point over 1 million terminals based on the model 33 design. This also doesn't include how many other machines were entering the surplus market like the model 32 or the model 35.
I was wondering how much of a financial benefit there was.. I see in vintage periodicals ASR-33s being marketed to hobbyists at $1000+ each.. hardly cheap. Certainly some would have scrounged one for free but presumably not everyone...
 
There were also early (spring 1976) machines that tried to be "hybrids" between hex display/keyboard systems like the MEK6800D2 and full up systems using a terminal or CRT for display.

My second computer after a MEK6800D2 was the Digital Electronics Corp DE68.
A 6800 computer that included a full ASCII keyboard, 20 character alphanumeric VFD display, and 20 char electrosensitive printer (aka spark printer) and cassette storage all in a briefcase.
Entering and displaying instructions as text mnemonics instead of hex code a real advantage over the 6800D2, and the printer made up for the single one line VFD display for looking longer code blocks.
Being in a briefcase meant I could take it more places than lugging around a CRT or heavy terminal. A SWTPC system with serial terminal was my "home" system, and the DE68 was the "travel" system.

DE68system.jpg
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VFD-LDAB-raw.jpg
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This is one of those historical questions I think I have partial answers for but maybe not the whole picture.

Why didn't the earliest microcomputers (and many that existed after) have video output (and keyboard input) right out of the gate?

The cost of RAM, keyboards, and video monitors.
Actually, Sphere's first computer DID have a video display, no front panel, and a hex monitor in EPROM.
Teletypes also got you paper tape I/O and hard copy.
 
In hindsight, it seems clear that microcomputers were destined to coalesce around usefully complete packages with integrated keyboard/display setups (...I'm typing on one now!) but I don't think that was obvious to everyone in the industry (and customer base) in the earliest years.

In addition to hardware cost and availability in what was very much a hobbyist arena, the first full microcomputers seem to have been conceived of as "home" minicomputers-- and to that point, "computing" had already been normalized as a computer somewhere, with various sorts of I/O often elsewhere. For example, the Altair was described on the famous Popular Electronics cover as a "minicomputer kit." I don't think it was necessarily obvious that even a terminal -- let alone integrated video/keyboard -- was essential to the idea of a computer presented in this form. Altair is described in the article this way:

a full-blown computer that can hold its own against sophisticated minicomputers now on the market. ... The basic computer is a complete system. The program can be entered via switches located on the front panel, providing a LED readout in binary format.
(emphasis mine)

Adding a terminal was an option: "In an upcoming issue, we will describe how to build a low-cost CRT type terminal that can be used with the computer." To some extent there's "marketing" happening here but video (or any) other IO was not framed as essential to the concept or utility of the machine. In the nature of hobbyist kit construction, too, a lot of the appeal was in the building and debugging. The idea that you might actually have well defined complex tasks you wanted to do with the thing -- that would definitively benefit from better integrated I/O-- was probably a bit of a hazier thing early on.

Of course, some subset of users/builders wanted to do more with microcomputers, and then cost gets involved. And you also get popularized home use of the trainer evaluator kits with limited keypads and displays but nonetheless they could do much more than basic front panels. And Al says above, if you did have a teletype that got you program storage/retrieval on paper tape and hard copy.
 
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In hindsight, it seems clear that microcomputers were destined to coalesce around usefully complete packages with integrated keyboard/display setups (...I'm typing on one now!) but I don't think that was obvious to everyone in the industry (and customer base) in the earliest years.

I think it was obvious at the time. Many of the manufacturers announced plans to add more i/o concepts but first they needed to make and sell the base unit. The Sphere was amazing but developing a full range of products meant there wasn't the resources left to produce more than few units before the cash ran out.

I remember from the magazines that some companies leveraged the early adopters that created interfaces and software to produce a more viable second generation product.
 
I'd say there are multiple answers to this question, and they're all inter-related.

Definition/Utility:

In 1973 the definition of a "computer" wasn't what it is in common parlance today, IE, a user-friendly workstation optimized for live interactivity with a human being. That was in fact still the exception to the rule even if we're talking about "big" computers, let alone little ones. If you encountered a "computer" in a lab or industrial environment back then it was probably a PDP-8 with a front panel, and it may well be completely driven by said front panel most of the time if it's doing process control or whatever. The earliest microcomputers were generic "boxes of slots" precisely because the people who designed them didn't have any prescriptive idea of how customers were going to want to use them, and considering the cost of integrating an interactive terminal into the base model (next point) it would have been foolish to insist in 1974 that the minimum system include all this extra fluff that you certainly didn't need if your idea of what you wanted to use your Altair for was controlling pump relays in your chemistry lab.

Cost:

This has two parts, the cost of the terminals, and of the computers themselves.

I see in vintage periodicals ASR-33s being marketed to hobbyists at $1000+ each.. hardly cheap

First, yes, a "new" or professionally restored ASR-33 was in that ball park, but a surplus gray market one could be had for a lot less than that. (And you could go even cheaper if you were willing to deal with the hassle of using an ancient Baudot model.) This was still *much* cheaper than a "real" CRT terminal, which the TV Typewriter wasn't (I'll get back to this), and if you laid hands on a teletype with a paper tape puncher/reader then having it also solved the problem of program storage. If you add up the price of a dedicated CRT monitor (even if it's just a security monitor or a TV you're cutting the tuner out of), a cassette recorder, the interface board *for* that cassette recorder, and the TVT itself this is going to look like a lot more even comparison.

(Oh, you also get a printer with the ASR. Downside is you're having to use paper *all* the time, but win some, lose some.)

Robert Suding had a video card developed for the Mark-8 by late 74.

Sure, around the same time that the SWTP CT-1024 terminal kit was getting prepped for its debut in Radio-Electronics' January 1975 issue. Let's talk about both of those, along with the original 1973 TVT.

Hitting the 1973 TVT first, well, it wasn't a terminal, it was more of a proof of concept. It could be *turned into* a terminal, but it wasn't a "snap your fingers" affair, and the design of its memory system plus almost total lack of cursor controls make it only capable of pretty limited interaction. If you want an example of what a computer interfaced with the original TVT would be like look at the Apple I; this is *not* an endorsement. Is it better than a teletype machine? Well, it saves paper I guess? The big shift registers it used were already obsolete in 1973, which is why it was as "cheap" as it was to build, but building one up completely still was around $200, which is around $1300 in today's money. In January 1975 an Altair kit was $439, or $2500, so we'd be talking a 50% premium on the minimum investment to get started if it was built in, and... would it even be useful to have one of these on a base Altair? I guess this is another thing to get back to.

Next, well... I can't find much on Suding's board, but from what I can find it had a whopping 256 bytes of memory on it for a 32x8 display, and wasn't really a "video card", it was a TV Typewriter that had a Mark-8 compatible parallel interface port on the back of it that essentially inserted the Mark-8 between the screen and keyboard "loopback". (Note that this isn't a criticism of the design, it's just to make it clear that it's not a modern "video card" as we would think of it today.) From what I've been able to find about it access to screen memory was strictly serialized and the only "cursor control" it understood was "home"; characters looped in from top to bottom and you couldn't even backspace. Which, again, I guess makes it about the equivalent of an Apple I. I couldn't find a price for this board but based on the components used I'd likewise guess that by the time you were all in you'd also be in the $200+ ballpark?

The CT-1024 is probably the fairest direct comparison, and the timing was perfect for pairing it with the Altair, since they came out almost exactly the same time. (And it needs to be said that while the Altair got a reputation for not being a "great" experience to assemble the Mark-8 was apparently a nightmare to build even if you could find all the parts, with anecdotes claiming that the majority of attempts to build one never even worked.) The capabilities of the base CT-1024 were fairly similar to the Mark-8 board, other than it could hold four times as many characters in two pages. (The CT-1024 is usually thought of as a "serial" terminal, but it did also have the option of a parallel port interface, and fitted with that using it would be almost precisely like the Mark-8's board.) For a few more bucks you got better cursor control. The most commonly quoted price for a CT-1024 kit in "full terminal" configuration was $275 so... again, that pretty much is in the same ballpark at the other solutions.

So... let's pretend that the minimum increase in base price to ship an integrated CRT terminal (minus the monitor) in a computer at the kit level is going to be around $250 in January 1, 1975. I'm also going to grant that, sure, even a really brain-dead Apple-1 style slow and semi-serial display would be more "friendly" and productive to most people than the front panel. What does that translate to?

  • It raises the introductory kit price of the Altair from $439 to $689, or in modern terms from around $2,500 to around $4,000. That's not chump change, and this is a cost that's going to come along with every computer sold.
  • This jump in price is ignoring the fact that the base Altair only came with 256 *bytes* of RAM and had no PROM/EPROM socket for the machine language monitor you'd need to make this display run. Even if we say that leaving out the front panel and substituting a monitor PROM (like the later "turnkey" Altair) gives us a break even on that we're still realistically going to need more RAM for this to be practical. Looking at ads in the January 1975 issue of popular electronics a 1Kbit 2102 RAM chip was $16, making 1K worth of them a cool $128 right there.
  • So now we're looking at a base price of at least $800 if we stick with static RAM. Or around $5,000 in today's money for the *base unit*. And we still have nowhere enough RAM or ROM to run a user friendly language like BASIC, this is all to give us a minimal machine language monitor instead of a front panel.
  • You're still going to have to scrounge a CRT monitor somewhere, that's another hundred bucks or so, plus a cassette recorder (I'll pretend we worked the price of the interface for that into the terminal circuitry cost), so now we're at a thousand bucks in kit form... and you have to spend that all in one chunk. Ouch.
And again, at this phase are we really sure that's what we need a computer for? Who knows? Seems like maybe we need a few more monkeys banging on the typewriters before Shakespeare gets written; our $400 entry price already severely limits how many monkeys we can get to participate, is tripling the entry price right out of the gate the right move? And that leads to: (... next post)
 
Technological Maturity:

I'm happy to see the Sphere mentioned in this thread, because it was at the time pretty famous as the first (low-cost/sub-$1000/whatever) microcomputer that from day one aspired to be a modern "workstation" style system. The entry price was roughly in line with what I suggested above, IE, around $800 for the minimum kit that included the CRT terminal support, and it's worth noting that it had a much more modern directly-memory-addressable video display instead of a TVT grafted onto a parallel port. They were demoing this system around July 1975, six or seven months after the Altair came out and around two years after the Mark-8 and friends first appeared, and they had heaps of problems early on:
  • The available SRAM chips were barely fast enough to handle direct CPU access in addition to CRT refresh, and still very much not cheap.
  • The larger PROMs needed to stick a full featured ROM OS into it were also still "lacking" and expensive.
  • To meet its price point while actually offering enough memory to be "useful" in a workstation configuration it used the early 4Kbit DRAM chips instead of SRAMs for main memory, and they also suffered a ton of teething issues. (MITS had similar issues with their first DRAM memory card.)
IE, even months after Altair came out and years after the Mark-8 the chips needed to make a "workstation"-style computer were still bleeding edge in terms of both price and reliability. The period between early 1975 and mid-1976 was huge in terms of the industry ramping up production of these products and improving their performance, which is why a lot of the things that were "invented" in 1975 (like the first direct video cards for S-100 machines) didn't really make it out into the wild in quantity until 1976. Perhaps the final shoe to drop here was actually the availability of large mask ROMs at low enough prices to embed a BASIC interpreter into a computer instead of a machine language monitor, which lead of course to the "1977 Trinity" of PCs with integrated CRT support, keyboards, and a user-friendly operating environment. (Which practically overnight made the "kit computers" obsolete.)

In short, the pieces simply weren't all there in 1974, at least at the sort of prices that would have enabled the "PC revolution". A TRS-80 or Commodore PET from 1977 with a list price of $600 is almost the technical equal of a WANG PC that sold for $6000 in 1973, and the reasons you could get so much more only four years later are the sum total of the explosion of innovation and industrial advancements over the intervening four years. Just having microprocessors alone to replace the TTL CPUs wasn't enough.
 
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I got my TTY for use with my Altair 8800 from the "local" hobby store, which was not really local. But it was closest there was that I know of. Paid $600 and it was in really good shape. Eventually even had the hard copy maintenance manuals. Another thing I should have kept. But did not.
 
I got my TTY for use with my Altair 8800 from the "local" hobby store, which was not really local. But it was closest there was that I know of. Paid $600 and it was in really good shape. Eventually even had the hard copy maintenance manuals. Another thing I should have kept. But did not.

It's also worth noting that there was extensive overlap between early computer hobbyists and HAM radio operators, and a hardcore HAM might already have invested in some kind of teletype machine to use with RTTY.
 
I think there were several factors in addition to the price of a built-in video display.

The idea of what a computer was and how it worked, particularly in the mini-computer world and also somewhat in the mainframe world had been moving to timeshared systems with serial connections to terminals. Most of the operating systems were command-line based and fairly simple. When you have existing systems it shapes how you think about new systems.

A lot of the companies like Altair and SWTPC were run by hardware people that didn't have a lot of experience with software. A video interface built into the computer is going to require quite a bit more software to make it useful. At a minimum a language like BASIC or a crude operating system. They didn't typically have the development resources to produce that software and it would also have raised the minimum machine configurations as mentioned. Compare that to having Mikbug available from Motorola for the 6800 already on a chip that provides some rudimentary control with a serial terminal. Basically no software development needed.

In the interest of getting a product on the market and generating sales the path of keeping it simple was often chosen.
 
Why didn't the earliest microcomputers (and many that existed after) have video output (and keyboard input) right out of the gate? Obviously the ability to generate video on a screen affordably had been demonstrated by Don Lancaster in 1973..
If it were that easy, Don Lancaster would have published 'The Cheap Video Cookbook' a few years years earlier than 1978.
I bought that book circa 1979 hoping it might be of use with my Fairchild F8 Evaluation Kit but alas it was very specific to the KIM-1 and required a hardware mod to that board to cycle-steal the 6502, just to keep the video sync going.

AFAIK the earliest microcomputers often had a hex keypad and seven-segment display, not a terminal. Just look through early BYTE issues.
As for printing terminals, Teletypes, refurbed I/O Selectrics were still quite a few hundred dollars back in the mid-70s, with the Heathkit-rebadged DECwriter for the H11 over $1600 back in the day, not cheap at all.
 
In fact, once you have a terminal, you have most of a microcomputer. A lot of terminal manufacturers realized this and stuck a floppy disk drive or two in their terminals with appropriate hardware support and bingo--a new market. Consider the TVI terminals, or the Intertec ones, just to name two off the top of my head.
What made the big difference was semiconductor memory being widely available. The first real terminal that I actually owned, a Beehive SuperBee, used an 8008 MPU and shift-registers for memory. 1702A PROMs.
 
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