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Pepinno

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Apr 16, 2007
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555
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Barcelona
This is going quite off-topic, but anyway...
With regards to TLS 1.0, that should not be kept around at all. It is trivial to break into a TLS 1.0 stream, and this is why is has been nearly completely deprecated.
It is true TLS 1.0 has been officially deprecated (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc8996/ , one month ago).

Your other assertion, regarding breaking TLS 1.0 to be trivial, begs for a citation. I do not believe that is true. The "danger" in TLS 1.0, as it stands today, is purely theoretical.

You cannot even get a cert now that will support it, at least not from any reputable provider. Oh, and for the record, the current cert on this site only supports TLS 1.2 and 1.3, it does not support TLS1.0 or 1.1.
You can get a SSL certificate today and use it no problem with an OpenSSL implementation that supports only TLS 1.0. TLS is a transport protocol, whose features are orthogonal to the PKI certificates themselves.

About this forum's TLS, yes I see I am getting email from this forum now in plain text while in flight, as this forum's email server is currently setup to refuse to speak TLS 1.0 (which is the only TLS my personal email server supports). Surely, plain text must be much more secure than opportunistic TLS 1.0 for the SMTP stream...

My logs:
Code:
Apr 19 23:20:36 gran postfix/smtpd[1608]: warning: 104.192.220.12: address not listed for hostname vintage-computer.com
Apr 19 23:20:36 gran postfix/smtpd[1608]: connect from unknown[104.192.220.12]
Apr 19 23:20:37 gran postfix/smtpd[1608]: setting up TLS connection from unknown[104.192.220.12]
Apr 19 23:20:37 gran postfix/smtpd[1608]: warning: network_biopair_interop: error reading 5 bytes from the network: Connection reset by peer
Apr 19 23:20:37 gran postfix/smtpd[1608]: SSL_accept error from unknown[104.192.220.12]: -1
Apr 19 23:20:37 gran postfix/smtpd[1608]: lost connection after STARTTLS from unknown[104.192.220.12]
Apr 19 23:20:37 gran postfix/smtpd[1608]: disconnect from unknown[104.192.220.12]
Apr 19 23:20:37 gran postfix/smtpd[1608]: warning: 104.192.220.12: address not listed for hostname vintage-computer.com
Apr 19 23:20:37 gran postfix/smtpd[1608]: connect from unknown[104.192.220.12]

That above is a SMTP transaction were the STARTTLS verb fails, because the TLS negotiation has failed among both email servers, and then the forum's email server is reconnecting to retry to send the email now without using the STARTTLS verb, i.e., in plain text. So much for security!

As a comparison, Google is currently DISREGARDING RFC-8996 and accepting email through TLS 1.0-encrypted SMTP streams, because some crypto is always better than no crypto. My logs:
Code:
Apr 20 21:42:32 gran postfix/pickup[5182]: 276FE1200: uid=1000 from=<XXXXXX@YYYYYYYY.com>
Apr 20 21:42:32 gran postfix/cleanup[6624]: 276FE1200: message-id=<20210420194229.GC2538@YYYYYYYYY.com>
Apr 20 21:42:32 gran postfix/qmgr[926]: 276FE1200: from=<XXXXXX@YYYYYYYY.com>, size=843, nrcpt=3 (queue active)
Apr 20 21:42:32 gran postfix/smtp[6626]: setting up TLS connection to gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com
Apr 20 21:42:32 gran postfix/smtp[6626]: certificate verification failed for gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com: num=20:unable to get local issuer certificate
Apr 20 21:42:32 gran postfix/smtp[6626]: certificate verification failed for gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com: num=27:certificate not trusted
Apr 20 21:42:32 gran postfix/smtp[6626]: certificate verification failed for gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com: num=7:certificate signature failure
Apr 20 21:42:32 gran postfix/smtp[6626]: Unverified: subject_CN=mx.google.com, issuer=GTS CA 1O1
Apr 20 21:42:32 gran postfix/smtp[6626]: TLS connection established to gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com: TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)
Apr 20 21:42:34 gran postfix/smtp[6626]: 276FE1200: to=<ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ@gmail.com>, relay=gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[173.194.76.26]:25, delay=2.4, delays=0.24/0.14/0.49/1.5, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 OK 1618947754 u10si43968wri.125 - gsmtp)
Apr 20 21:42:34 gran postfix/qmgr[926]: 276FE1200: removed

I think we can assume that Google/Gmail know email. If TLS 1.0 is good enough for them, it should be fine also here. But that is only my opinion.
 

Lutiana

Administrator
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You can get a SSL certificate today and use it no problem with an OpenSSL implementation that supports only TLS 1.0. TLS is a transport protocol, whose features are orthogonal to the PKI certificates themselves.

Right, I stand corrected, my apologies there. I brain farted on TLS being a transport thing and not a certificate thing,
 

VERAULT

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Joined
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Messages
5,909
Location
Connecticut, USA
I have a question about the layout and view of messages in my inbox. The default view seems to be "conversations" rather than individual messages. I CANNOT STAND THIS. It jumbles all the messages together. I dont like this view in any email client which for some reason everyone wants to push now a days. Is it possible to change it to single messages rather than the "conversation" view?
I am looking an a message in the top of my inbox, and the preview to the text goes all the way back a couple months ago to when we first started emailing, rather than the latest message. Its just making it impossible to navigate my messages.
 

RetroDan

Member
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Messages
22
So who was the genius who decided that updating the forums meant that all of my message history would be deleted?
 

SomeGuy

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Marietta, GA
Well, it it were possible to dial back the encryption shackles a bit, that would improve compatibility a bit. Winworldpc.com and soylentnews.org are two examples of sites that will load in Firefox2/Seamonkey 1.1. FirefoxRZ and Retrozilla have support for TLS 1.2, but they have issues with a lot of sites. What I recall reading was something about lack of support for "virtual hosts" using HTTPS, or something like that.
 

mbbrutman

Associate Cat Herder
Staff member
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6,270
So who was the genius who decided that updating the forums meant that all of my message history would be deleted?

Please don't take that tone here ... we are all volunteers.

All of my message history back to 2006 is available. Are you looking in the right place? Is anybody else having this problem?
 

jafir

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Location
Arkansas
I get “Sorry, you are not authorized to view this page” when I try to view my messages.
 

mbbrutman

Associate Cat Herder
Staff member
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Messages
6,270
I get “Sorry, you are not authorized to view this page” when I try to view my messages.

I can't spot a problem with your userID and I don't have access to the vBulletin logs.

Please open a new thread in the "Vintage Computer Forum Support" area and try to include a screen shot if you can.
 

vwestlife

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Messages
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Location
central NJ
If you think this new forum layout is bad, if you've ever sold anything on eBay, take a look at what they just did to the My Selling page. eBay is bragging about it being "streamlined" and having "less clutter", but it also has drastically less useful information -- it now shows only two items per screen, great for sellers who have hundreds of items listed!

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/classic-seller-page-gone-again/m-p/31804509

So, Board of Directors, thank you for at least not screwing it up that badly!
 

VERAULT

Veteran Member
Joined
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Messages
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If you think this new forum layout is bad, if you've ever sold anything on eBay, take a look at what they just did to the My Selling page. eBay is bragging about it being "streamlined" and having "less clutter", but it also has drastically less useful information -- it now shows only two items per screen, great for sellers who have hundreds of items listed!

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/classic-seller-page-gone-again/m-p/31804509

So, Board of Directors, thank you for at least not screwing it up that badly!

The exact same thing just happened to me 15 minutes ago! Damn it! I have been fighting with them for years to keep the classic look. My wife was forced into the new seller hub view on her account which is just USELESS! Now mine is complete crap! Why cant they just leave it alone.. Ah, the ebay change is far worse than anything on this forum!

I F%$cking hate eBay.. I really do.. A model for how not to run any business
 

RetroDan

Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2020
Messages
22
Please don't take that tone here ... we are all volunteers.

All of my message history back to 2006 is available. Are you looking in the right place? Is anybody else having this problem?

*dryly*. Oh, yeah, I'm looking in the right place. I have ZERO of my previous messages available to me. As of this moment, I have only a single message-response to a previous user that I sent and received a reply from, AFTER the update.

So can you really blame me for being peeved?
 

Krille

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Location
Sweden
OK, my first post since the forum upgrade. I have been struggling with learning how to navigate around the new UI but it's clear that Erik and the other admins/moderators are working on improving things so I feel confident that the forum will be fine in the end. Just give it time. About the two users that were banned; I don't think a lifetime ban is necessary - we all care about the forum and I'm sure we have all felt some level of frustration from this upgrade. Having your favorite place on the Internet turn into a confusing mess sure is going to stir up some emotion.

Anyway, a few minor problems I've discovered;
  • There are 5 links at the bottom of the About tab on the User Profile page. They all seem to be restricted to return at most 500 results. This is confusing because if I click "Find all posts" then I expect all posts, not the last 500 posts.
  • On the same page there's a Media tab. On there I have a link "Posted Photos" and an image I uploaded a long time ago. They both link to the same page that says "No photos found." So clearly the images (and hopefully other files) I've attached to posts over the years are still there - they just can't be found by the forum software.
  • I tried the "Customize My Style" button on the User Profile page and changing colors doesn't seem to do anything outside of my user profile. Is that not supposed to be a forum wide setting?
 

Dwight Elvey

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Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
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Location
Santa Cruz
I'm relaying information, comments and concerns to them. So while they might not be visible, they should be active.

Hi Mike
"I can't complain but sometime I still do"
I know you are doing a thankless job and for that I thank you. Moving to a new platform is not an easy task.
A lot of the complaints I see here are repeats. It just adds to the frustration for both your end and our end.
If there was more feedback on what is being worked on and what is being assumed to not be a problem would help from our end.
We don't know if anything is being done by our issues or if it is just being ignored.
I'm sure you have a list of issues and what is the status. It might be worthwhile to post some kind of status list every now and then.
Somethings can't be fixed while others are either being worked on or waiting to be worked on.

Now for my main issue. It seems that the "New Topics" is the only way to keep up with what is newly being posted. I can deal with that.
My problem is that once I look at a particular thread, it is dropped from the "New Topics" list. There doesn't seem to be an easy way to return to that thread other than a search, remembering something to search for. On the old forum, a thread already being looked at was just marked as read, but not removed.
My issue with this current setup is I like to read threads several thread first that are new that day and then return to those that I may want to study more or possibly reply to. Since I can't easily find them, I need to wait for someone else to reply to them.
Secondly, since "New Topics" spans more than one day, this makes it easier when I'm away for a day, I can more easily catch up on what is new. This is a good thing.
Still, without keeping a note as to what time and date I last looked with "New Topics" it is difficult to find where I left off. The old form, one could easily see where one last viewed some subject, even if using the days search more than once a day. Since this "New Topics" deletes things as they are viewed, it is easy to get lost as to where thing were.
I've looked at the various options and maybe I just missed some setting. I'm bad with that. Still, it is really frustrating and I believe it needs some attention. Since we have only one way feedback, it is frustrating. Things like "facebook" buttons are annoying but doesn't change function much. I believe my issue is more serious as it makes it difficult and clumsy to use the MB.
I'd be quieter if there was some status posted every now an then on what is being looked, what is still on the list to be looked and and what won't be looked at. I'd help but dealing with web pages and MBs is way out of my expertise. I'm a circuit type person.
This note is just trying to be constructive.

Thanks
Dwight

PS I look forward to the next NW VCF.
 

Nevets01

Experienced Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2018
Messages
117
Location
United States
Well, it looks like there has been some improvement since I've been here last.
Good!
Please keep it up!
The "themes" are a nice stopgap (my favourite is the "blue green" if anyone cares), but of course, the maximum width (i.e. the giant empty expanses on the left and right of the screen for anyone with a modern screen) for the actual content still needs to be removed.
The Twitter/Facebook buttons are also rightfully gone, but the "like" button still menaces from the bottom-right.
I'm looking forward to more improvements, like being able to see the location of posters, or more than 10 posts to a page. Been making some first steps, but there's still a good ways to go yet.
 

Casey

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Joined
May 31, 2016
Messages
608
Location
Fairfield, Ohio
I can't view my Inbox. If I click "Go to Message Center", the screen just sits there doing nothing. I'd like to reply to a message I received yesterday, but no way to even find the message.

Did you click on Inbox Preview? Alternatively, have you tried clicking on Messages? I get a drop down menu of subjects. It's annoying that I have to click on a subject, then scroll to the bottom so I can read the latest message & reply. It seems to be configured to automatically thread messages that way. I prefer sorting by date the way every other web-based email client does, but I haven't found a way to change it, yet.
 

Casey

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Joined
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Messages
608
Location
Fairfield, Ohio
From a bit of searching, I see that vB5 supports stylesheet overrides (via "css_additional.css"), so it may not even be necessary to create a new style or to hand out any keys :) But I'll see what I can do. Thanks for considering that.

BTW, like others said, I can't see the style selector at the bottom of the screen either... maybe the default setup enables this control only for admins?

example.jpg
 

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Casey

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If you're talking about the arrow(s) in the upper right hand corner you would have to click 187 time if you wanted to see the latest thread on ongoing Craig's List. What am I missing?

Can't speak for little arrows, but I get a page selection menu at the bottom; 1 .. highest. In the CL case it's currently up to 158. I click on the 158 box and I'm jumped to the final page. Easy Peasy.
 

Casey

Veteran Member
Joined
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Messages
608
Location
Fairfield, Ohio
VileR, the images you posted don’t work for me; when I click on them it just brings up a tiny, low-quality thumbnail.

Same here. I suspect it's because they're 1900 by something equally large, and I still have a 1600x900 screen over here. Honestly, the Grunge style seems acceptable to me. The only thing I would change is direct font size. My eyesight isn't what it used to be.
 
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